In The Matter Of: Joe Tucker v. Detroit Police Department Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Sy Court Reporting and VideoJoseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 1 Page 3 STATE OP MICHIGAN 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF WAYNE | 2 3 WITNESS PAGE LIEUTENANT JOE L, TUCKER, JR, 4 LIEUTENANT JOSEPH TESIO Plains 5 vs ‘Case No. 15-004707-CD 6 EXAMINATION BY MR. EDWARDS: 5 Hon, Leslie Kim Smith 7 EXAMINATION BY MS. JUNTTILA: 37 DETROIT POLICE DEPARTMENT 8 RE-EXAMINATION BY MR. EDWARDS: ” CHIEF OF POLICE JAMES L. CRAIQ, 9 ASSISTANT CHIEF STEPHEN DOLUNT, 0 EXHIBITS DEPUTY CHIEF CHARLES FITZGERALD, 1 LIBUTENANT KELLY FITZGERALD, 2 EXHIBIT PAGE Individually and as employees ofthe 3. (Exhibits attached to transcript.) CITY OF DETROIT, a municipal 4 Corporation, 5 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1 8 ‘Defendants 6 E-MAIL. Be 7 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 2 18 8 INTER-OFFICE MEMORANDUM 9 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT3 18 ‘The Deposition of LIEUTENANT JOSEPH TESIO, 0 APPEARANCE NOTICES 1 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 4 18 Detroit, Michigan, 2 DETROIT POLICE DEPARTMENT Commencing at 1:42 pn., 3 ACTIVITY LOG ‘Thursday, February 4, 2016, 4 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 18 Before Maureen Collier, CSR-7422. S__ PERSONNEL ORDER Page 2 Fage 4 1 APPEARANCES 1 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 6 20 2 2 NOTES 3 CARL R. EDWARDS P24952 3 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 7 20 4 Bdwards & Jennings, P.C. 4 PERFORMANCE EVALUATION RATING 5 65 Cadillac Square, Suite 2710 5 6 Dettoit, Michigan 48226 é 7 13) 961-5000 7 8 [email protected] 8 Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff. 3 ° 10 1 HEIDI J. JUNTTILA P72610 da 2 City of Detroit Law Department 2 2 2 Woodward Avenue, Suite $00 3 4 Detroit, Michigan 48226 14 5 (G13)237-0451 & 6 [email protected] 6 7 "Appearing on behalf of the Defendants, City of Detroit 1.7 8 and Detroit Police Chief James L. Craig. 18 9 9 ALSO PRESENT: 0 1 Deputy Chief Charles Fitzgerald 1 2 Lieutenant Kelly Fitzgerald 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 1 (Pages 1 to 4) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 1 Det, Mihigan Wat, whe fist gto homie, it yas rough to 2 Thay, Febuary 4, 2016 sy stterin tht thee was a fot of diferent things 3 12pm lng on with overtime and with cou tine ‘ Otay. 5 LIEUTENANT 0SEPH TESIO, So me having my internal afuis background this was & —_wastteeupo ele asa wines herein, and ae Keeping an eye on everything. Then think it was 1 faving fistbeen uly vom oes othe th, probaly maybe around uly or August Commander | @ the whole th ad nothing bi teu, as, ‘laguinto an Captain Decker asked myselfand 9 beamined and ested slows Lieutnant Boye to monitor the overtime and chek he 10 EXAMINATION cour sls 1 py eowaRDs ‘What you wete you in now? 12 @. Goedaeroon, Would yous your mame forthe ‘Were in 2014. So had probably been there maybe 13 pert plese? about se more Tt A Soop Tesi, ‘And can you tell me who Lieutenant Decker was athe 15. Q. And wht is you ak? time? 16 AL Ciena, Delt Police Department Coptin Decker, Captain Erie Doser. He vas he LQ. Howeldare you, Levent commanding officer of amici, Le A. Forysix Tse. And Gia, what was he? 19 Q. Wuldyou summarize various assignments youve He waste coramander ove major cies, 20” beldsince youve beena ple ofee? And ts allright. You may contin, 21 Gast sit with what year id you compete the pobe So we stared sme egies wih he cour sips 22 weatemy? anc, you know. pasibly te evertine. So we js we 23. A 19, Kept moitrng I yas broug the cepa 24. Andidencouldyou st summarize how yougotio where |24 tenon and 25 youwrenow? 25 _Q Captain Decker? age 6| age 6 1A. Iworkedatthe Sth precinct, Then Tworked atthe | 1A. Yes Captain Decker. Som. And Cammander lag, 2 rothprecines ‘Te | worked at nreotis, From 2 And noably wheeitrealy stated fo ome too head 3 aweliss Twas promoted othe rankofinvesigtor | 3 waus-I believe the dato was iter Octaber 26h or 4 Where worked ts unit assigned othe violent, 4 Gather 2th I reeived an ema rom our 5 crimes, which was ale pet oflenders unt 5 timekoper, alia Trace, an th ema sated 6 i was promoted ou of thereto the rank of & as ffom Bandon Sh the Andis ewe + sergeant uhtre assent tothe Sth precinet where | 7 remove i cou slp beau Llegenat Clark slaned &—Nosked purl for about Id months. Then was sentto | @ _meinandout and he afm aoa it 9 the internal affairs unit, where I was -- worked there 2 Q Okay. 10 forseveral months on the for, Anditheni was |10 A. Sotheezmallgoesonio say ~ 11 ansgnedonunteated the neligence unit which [11 Q. maony. Wha year was his? 12 Werke had in hand with public coupon 12 AL Thiswas 2016 ight round Thave acopy ofthe 13, Q. olay, 13 oma 14 A. From thre had an opporunty to got the ot @. Ok 15 enor ak force, whieh would be aslgned tthe 2018 So thats when it really came to head reas 16 EBL Out of there {got promoted to letenat, and now Youre ely raping me up nt whee she 17 wan anignedtohomicie, ten someting dec tome hat evil she 13. Alright did't ik wis on te up and wp. And you kro in 19 A. Andien fom there a couple of wecks ago Las my epiion youd worth you need wo getpaid | 20.” wansfered to the Sth reins forecourt lip mo! aking it Tn) 21 @. Okay. And lunderstand tht you wer involved mney fort 22 italy in investigating another police office, a «|22Q. Yen 23. detective by the name of Brandon Smith? 23 A Sothenhe nvesigaion sated rely proressing 24 A. Yes.himalong with others, 24” whee tying oink sof sty nore 25__Q. Andean you tell me how that came abou? [2s Q. Okay, 2 (Pages 5 to 8) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 9 Page 11 1 A. Commander Giauinto asked for athree-month audtof | 1 Q, Okwy 2 the court slips. 2 A. Sothat was one ofthe things which fo me I thougkt 3. Allg 3 waskind of erazy, not to work weekends at homicide 4A, Notovertime, but think it was just court sips. 4 hen, you know, you get lot ofeime happens om 3 Q Intomicide? 5 the weekends. So it would be tot, total recall 6 A. Athomicide. Just homicide 6 Allright 7 Q Otay. 7A. Soletme think where we go fiom there. 8 A. Which objected 8 Q, Yeah, Where did you go from there? 9 Q. Wy? 9A. Sol shink Brandon knows that~ Officer Smith knows 10 A. Because Ithoughta three-month audit was udierous, | 10 of Detective Smith knows that hes kind of in hot 11 Q Wy? 1. water 12 A. Itneededt0 go way ~Iimean, Ive donethese typeof {12 Q. Why do you say thar? What ed you to say what you 13 investigations before. So itneeded tobe a ile 13°” justsaid? 14 bitmore in depth than thet, 14 A. Well because his stepbrother, Deputy Chiet Leva 15 Q Howmuch more? 15 ad come down several times to Commander Giaquint’s 16 A. Maybe you start withthe three months. Tm not going |16 office and ~ 7" eedisagree. Then once youstart finding somestu | 17 Q. Concern him? Concerning Brandon Smith? 18 then you have to go back and cont 18 A. Teanonly assume concerning Brandon Smith 19 Q, Okay. 19. Q. Why doyou assume tha? 20 A. And wherever ittakes you and however overwhelming it | 20 A. ‘Because think Brandon was called in a couple of 21 ie=solet me think. So-what heppened next was 21 times, and just know that Brandon fed went upstairs 22 there wns some, would ay soullebutt back and forth | 22 and told his brother what was going on, like, you 23 with the one officer, who was Officer Smith, who, like | 23 know, either was out o get him or whatever. 24 said, think he was a detective atthe time, He 24 Q Allright |25 was the most egregious. Ho ust didnt stop. And 25 _A._ Sosomewhere along the line, Deputy Chief Levall Page 10 Page 1 in-between time there we are also monitoring weekends | 1 writes an e-mail regarding me and regarding the whole 2 because we felt that people werenteither coming in| 2 Brandon Smith incident, where to me be interjected 3 omthe weekends oF they were leaving awfully early. 3 himself nto a personal mater, which that’s against 4 Why didyou fel that way? | @ ——ourrutes and regulations. He said disparaging 5 A. Just because ofthe work product, looking attherun | 5 remarks about my work ethie and about me personally. 6 shectsand slike that. And just some suspicions | § —Q, ‘Doyoustll have the email? 7 from somte other officers saying, you know, 7A. YesIdo, 8 sucheand-such might not even shown up today BQ. What did he say as best you can recall? 9 Q. Okay 9A. That the peopl that Tork with dislike me so much 10 A. Sot was directed by Captain Decker to go down and |10 There's afew things in there. You have to actually 11” check the swipe cards downstairs, which isreelly |22—_ read the e-mal 12 eayy. 12. Q, Tin going to request that when you're done, Tm going 13 Q. Whatare the swipe cards? 13 ~ torequest that you produce all these emails. But 14 A. Thats when you swipe in and out, andthey cantell 14 ight now jus ell me as best as you can fiom your 15 when you come and when you go. 15 recollection what you recall. 16 Q Allah 16 A. Yeals, That prety much that I disliked his brother, 17 A. Andean tell you Commander Ginquinto had told him |17 which, you know, whether I dislike him or not, that’s 18 numerous times, you know we ean check what youre |18 neither here nor the point. You know, ifhe's doing 19 doing 19 suff tha e's not supposed to be doing, I didn't 20 Whathappened next? 20 make tha up s0 21 A. We enced up stopping working weekends 21 Q. Anything ese inthe e-mail that stands out? 22 Q why? 22 A. dhave to review it 23. A. Beonuse it was ust oo tough to monitor, and Tehink 23 Q. Okay. Fair enough 24 shore was probably too many people who were taking |24 A. So then Tm not 10 happy with everything, so T draft 25 advantage of not puting in a fl ight hours 25 ane-mai to our assistant chief, Assistant Chief 3 (Pages 9 to 12) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 13 2 Dour, And believe that was around November 7thor | 1 it? 1 2 November Sth I drat an e-mail 2 A, [brought it for you because you asked ~ inthe ! 3 Q Okyy. 3 deposition it sid to bring those things 4 A. Going into everything that I think is going on, 2 Q Yes. Solet's make a copy of it i 5 ‘MS. JUNTTILA: This is 2014 5A. Imade copies for you. 1 6 THE WITNESS: Were sill 2014, yeah © Q. Ohyouhave? | 7 BY MR. EDWARDS: 7 A, {made something for you to sign exactly whet you're 8 Q. Okyy 8 receiving fiom me. 1 A. Soiinthe email it goes back and forth about the 9 Q Okay. Tell me what we have here. i 10 allegations that think that are happening at 10 A. Soright here we have the e-mail fom Brandon Smith to | 12 homicide. So te ast paragraph that I write tothe 11 Felicia Tracey. ! 12 assistant chi is think that this sat such high 12 Q Okay. | 13 levels inthe department it needs tobe investigated 13. A, Toke that courtslip out. And think the date was 14 by an outside entity 14 1026, | 15 Q. Why do you sy tha? 15 Q Okay. i 16 A. Because we already know that it involves adeputy [16 A. Right hee we have one ofthe overtime things that | 17 chief's stepbrother, and he’s already interceded 17 Brandon put in, which he actually subsequently was } 18 himself based on this e-mail into the investigation 18 charged just for making false oral writen statements, |) 19° Q. Allright 18 ‘And this shows you right here. This is is } 20 A. Sothe only fairway todo this~ and this goes past | 20 run sheet, which is fine, and this shows you that he 21 history with the department, with cover ups and sti. | 21 wantin the building. He says he still was inthe | 22 Sol snid youneed the Michigan Attorney Generel, | 22 building and he checked out and all that, and his is 23 Michigan State Police, or FBL 23 the punch card right here 2 Q. Allright 24 Q Sothis was, what, documentation? [25 A. And also wrotein there that threenonth audit is__|25 _A._Yes. Thats what was banded over to IA. ! Page 14 page 16 1 dirous in my opinion based on my investigative 1 Q Okay. And documentation of what, just forthe record? 2 experience, And said that ifyou're not subpoenaed | 2 A. This is documentation of an overtime repor that he 3 to goto cour, you dont belong going to court 3 submitted to get paid, his run sheet that sates whet 4 So wo fet it at that, and I think it was 4 he had done odd, and the punch card 5 around that ime T went back up into his office with 5 ‘You go downstairs and they can ~ you know, S Commander Giaqunto, 6 you give them the name, and they ean tell you exactly 7 Q Youmean the AC? 7 Where you enter every door inthe building 8 A. The ACS office. I'm sorry. And we had a meeting, 8 Q. So why did you submit this to the IA, to internal 9 and the AC assured me thet it would bea thorough 9 affairs? 10 investigation 10 A, Because that was fraud, 11 Q. Allright. 11 Q. Okay. Documented fraud? 12 A. Wediscussed something, lke if, you know, ifan {12 A. Tsay documented fraud 13 officer in the suburbs did this one time — Iean 13° Q Based on-- 4 distinctly remember that what would happen. Andhe | 24 A. Based on my past experience. That the best because 15 said hetd be fired, 15 thats the hardest one to get out of 16 SothenT said, you know, how are we going |L6-Q. Why? : 7 togetour department tobe like these other suburban [17 A. The paper tail ! 1B departments if we don't hold our members toahigher [18 Q. Okay. Next. 19 standard 19 A. Then these are some cour slips which myself and 20 Q. Whathappened next? 20 Liewenant Boyle had went through tat we found very 21 A. Soitwenton fora litle while. Kind of gota 21 suspicious. These were alo turned overt IA for 22 litle outing. Can I refer to that or no? 22 then to-do a more thorough in-depth investigation into 23 Q Oh,yeah. Youhave i? 23 these 24 A. Yeah. Thave it with me 24 Q. Allvigm. 23 25 _ A. These were just some, Q._ Yeah. You can referto it. Shall we make a copy of 4 (Pages 13 to 16) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-466-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 17 Page 19} 1 Q Allright. 1A. So Exhibit 1 is the e-mail from Brandon Smith to [ 2A. That wast | 2 Belicia Tracy, our timekeeper 5 Q Okay. 3 Q allright | 4 AL Sothen, you know, the investigations continuing, | 4A. Exhibit2 is going tobe the request foroverime | 5 and Brandon knows thatthe investigation is going on. | 3 recall pey on September Let, 2014 | 6 He knows that he's hot This isan example ofthe documented fraud? 7 So he comes in ona Saturday with no 7A Yes | 8 supervision, He comes ina 6:09 inthe mornin. 8 Q Allright : 9 Nobodys there. Hemade his om hours up. He leaves | 9 A. Exhibit’ i going to be merous cou slips wi } 10 the building at 9.35 and goes home 20 myself and another member belived to ~alotot | 1 Q Oy. 11 suspicion on these court slips, but they needed tobe =| 12 A. On Saturdays. This is one of these Saturday problems | 12 investigated further. 13° that we had, And he pus in for overtime pected overtime fraud? | 14 Q. Okay. This is another example of documented fraud. Yes, court time fraud on that. Ih 15 A. Lwould say itis. And this was one of the things Allright. | 16 that was given to TA, and I dont know ihe was ever [Dxhibit is another overtime fraud onthe weskend, 27 even charged on this one. Think it might have only | 17" andthe date is 112972014 18 been that one right there 74 Q Allright 19° Q. The one before? 19° AL Ang Exhibit is nota transfer butanasigned out. f 20 A. Yeah, and itwas none ofthe court slips 20 When Brandon was under investigation, hey assigned 21 Q Allright 21 him out om homicide to the commercial ato thet 22 A. And that’s kind of it, This is just a transfer when 22 unit, F 23 ‘Brandon got actually assigned out of -- he got 23° Q. Allright. You may continue, So what happened next? |) 24 assigned gut of homicide and they sent him foCATS. | 24 A. Soh leer eaused a meeting to be scheduled 25 (Off the record at 155 pm) 25” Myself, Commander Giaguino, and the Assistant Chie? Page 18 page 20) (Bock onthe record at 1:5 pm) 1 Dolunt, And we went over the overtime MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION 2 Q Arethese yournotes? ; DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 3 A. Yes. | E-MAIL 4 Q. Why don’t we mark them. 1S? am 5 A. Thisis actualy, right here, this is grievance that MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION 6 Tiled but this : DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 2 7 Q Weil gctto that. It goes withthe notes? INTER-OFFICE MEMORANDUM 8A. Yeah. It goes with the notes soi all together istpm 9 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION | ‘MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION: to DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 6 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 3 1 NOTES | APPEARANCE NOTICES 2 1:38 pm | 157 pm. B THE WITNESS: And these are all the i MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION: 14 documents that I had to back up the grievance -- i 15 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 4 15 BYMR EDWARDS | 16 DETROIT POLICE DEPARTMENT ACTIVITY LOG |16 Q. That you filed? [ 1 157 pm, 17 A. Yeh, and there are avtachments in here that goes | 38 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION 18 along with this to back this dacument up 19 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 5 19 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION q 20 PERSONNEL ORDER 20 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT } 2 1stpm. 21 PERFORMANCE EVALUATION RATING |) 22. BY MR, EDWARDS 2 1:59 pm ; 23° Q. Why dont you jus, since weve ad thom masked | 23. BY MR EDWARDS: : 24 though why dnt you just deny forte acon 24 0. Olay. So whar happened newt? , 25 __what we've masked, Lieutenant? 25 _A. Soafler we had the meeting, we discussed the fraud _|) 5 (Pages 17 to 20) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 21 Page 23 1 by—youknow,kind of whats going on inthe whole | 1 know, ifthe defendant had court, he wast checking 2 unitand Deputy Chief Levalley engaging himself into | 2 to seeif that person was subpocnacd 3 this particular investigation regarding the 3 Q Ieee 4 stepbrother. 4A. Sotto explain t to you so youll know, like John Doe SQ. Allright. 5 has court, So! write Hohn Doe in my cout slip, and 6 A. Following the meeting, { made verbal recorded © Igo. So he checks and sees that John Doe has court, 7 statements at intemal affairs, bronght those 7 sobre assumes that I'm there being subpoenaed. No. 8 documents down with Sergeant Dietrich Lever. 1 8 Youneed to go check and see if the prosecutor 9 provided the relevant documents, 9 actually sem! you a subpoena if you were on the 10 And after that I met with Sergeant Lever 10 witness ts 11 several times; some of them were recorded and some of | 11 Q. That wasnt being done? 12 them were not regarding whit’ the process ofthe 12 A. He said he wasnt going to conduct th investigation 13 investigation, because I'm the type of guy, 'm just 13. tike that, He was going to do what they asked him fo 14 not going to lt it go. 14 do, and fe was kind of working on that three month ~ 15 Q This isan investigation into Brandon Smith? 15 Q. Timeline? 16 A. Into the whole - 16 A. Yeah. The three-month, just an audit 17 Q. Info the whole homicide unit? 7 Q. Yes. 18 A. Yeah, Because my e-mail, which he had a copy of, said | 18 A. And he knew that that's just I mean, I understood 19“ Telieve that overtime and court time freud was 19 when I talked to him that this would be overwinelming, 20 rampant throughout the unit 20. butit needed to be done correctly 21 ‘MS. JUNTTILA: Can we just elatity at So I went over his head, and I requested a 22 something? 22 meeting with Assistant Chief Dotunt to express my 23 MR. EDWARDS: Sure. Go ahead 23 reservations about the integrity ofthe investigation. 24 MS.JUNTTILA: Recording, are you saying | 24. Whathappened next? 25 internal affairs was recording? 25 A. Sowhat happened next was on around February 23rd — | Page 22 Page 24 1 ‘THE WITNESS: Yeah. When you go éown LQ What year? 2 there, they record. 2 A. In20i5. z) MS. JUNTTILA: Okay. Tjust wanted 3 Q Allright 4 ‘THE WITNESS: Yeah. I'm sorry. Itsa 4 A. Lwalked by Lieutenant Clark's desk, and that’s one of 5 revorded statement. So you go down there, you bring | 5 he other lieutenants athomicide. And Iseean L&R © everything, and everything's recorded © from the Deputy Chief Fitzgerald to investigate 7 MS. JUNTTILA: Got you 7 fraudulent court slips and fraudulent overtime by 8 ‘THE WITNESS: I mean, that's how they keep | 8 Brandon Smith. 9 track of what everybody said 9 Q. Okay. BY MR. EDWARDS: 210 A. Wecannot investigate that. Any allegations of 2 Q. Soifwe subpoena your interviews, you should have |11 —_eriminality have to go down o internal ais 32 ~ statements that were recorded at internal affairs? 2 So all ofa sudden the L&R, which is 13 A. Yes 13. _ investigation and report, disappeers. 4 Q. Allight. 14 Q. What does that mean? | 15 A. And there were some times that met with Lever upon | 15 A. ‘Tat means the report was gone, the cover sheet and 16 the Sth floor tack in one of our conference rooms just |16 allthat. And, you know, Idon'trememberifTtold | 17 to say hey, what’s going on, F want to know what's 17 thedeputy chiethimself whether we don't have the |) 18 going on. Tim not going away 18 authority o do that of not, but that investigation=- || 19° Q. Allright, 19° you know, that really sparked me because now Tm =f 20 A. So Lever actually responded to me thatthe potential | 20 thinking, !thought IA was investigating this. Now f) 21 "fraud thet I want him to investigate would require six |2 all ofasudden we're into February. Lbrought this f, 22 extra investigators and tke months. 22 to theirattention months ago. 23 Because the way Lever was conducting the 23 So I made a copy. It's inthe packet of 24 —_iavestzation, he was only checking to see ifthe 24 the L&R sheet requesting the investigation before it 25 defendant had court. So that would mean that, yo 25 was pulled. 6 [Pages 21 to 24) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411| | ! | Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 25 page 27 1 Q. Whatexhibit would that be? LQ Allright, What happened next? 2A. That going tobe inthis pack song with my 2 A. Sothisseatment vas perceived by me ss. an 3 riewanes, 3.” acknowledgment that he agreed that the scope ofthe 4% Q. “What exhibit number se? | vestigation was massive and prety mach involved 5 A. Exhibit 7. tes in Bxhibic7 5 _lotof peopl in the unt & Q Allright, soit disappears 6 Was his meeting taped? 7A. its gone, Sole they kind ofpulleditrightaway, | 7A, No, beease this was nother one where we went 2 Fike saying. you know, {dont know, we madea mistake | 8 upstairs 3 ores know beter. Lets ake it back 9 Q. Allright 10 So on Febrry 2th at 1:10, T meet with 10 A. SoSergeant Lever agin was adamant tht he was not LL Sergeant Leverina conference room on he Sth four, |11 going a shut the whole entire unt down. You know, 12 thisis the new day regarding the allegations ofthe |12 and Tm not going to say ca see his point, but 13 omisidefnud investigation 13° wasnt going to take “4 Tenpressed my belie whim in no LA Q, What happened next? 15 uncertain terms tat I dd believe he was 15 A. Sol was shocked by Levers comments. Iwas then 16 conducting thorough investigation, and told him [15 convinced that the cover up haben in progres for 27 that thought he was asieting minimizing the scope [17 _ sic months atthe highest level 18 ofthe potential embarrassment and consequences for | 18 Q._ Now, youve intodueed a new tem. And now youve 29 Officer Smih, Deputy Chie Levalley, andthe whole |19 introduced the erm coverup. Why do you su that? 20° department 20 A, Beonuse it usually doesnt fake an investigation six 21. Q. Whatdldhesay? 21 months to come t head like this, specially when 22. A. Wejistagredto disagree. 22 brought you some stuff that was specially down 23 Q. Okay 23 there and you didnt even do what was proper With 24 A. And we've done that several tins, 24 than 25_Q. allright iz 25 Ane then what ally got my suspicion is page 26 page 26] 1 AL Some being the typeof person that Tam — 1 when saw the L&R by the Deputy Chet Fitzgerald, 2 Q. Whattypo of person i tha? 2 that thought Lever was ding his. And you see Bow 3° A. Pesistens nt going avay. On February 25th at 3 itgotme going agin. And, you know, hough they a 1280 pan. Tagain meet with Lever up inthe Sth 4 erehandlng That why Tmt with him to days 5 floorinonc ofthe conference rooms back there,and | 5 inarow. 6 _wediscussed this investigation agen. And what Lever | 6 Q. Isee 7 olde e said eveothing you told me was true but | 7A, ‘Tis tolet him know bey, ike Iai, fm not gong @ —_whatam Isupposed to do, shut the whole unit down? | 8 aay. 9 Q. Okay. 9 0, Whivhappened nex? LOA. That's what he told te 10. A. Sotha's exactly why Treornmended tat we have aa 11 Q. Sowhatdid you tll him, that overtime abuse was |11 ouside agen conduct this investantion. 22°” rampant? 12 Q. Allright 13 A." Right And he had probably already conducted his [13 A. Tust because of stuflike this. So then I requested 14” inital investigation, which Tenow fom hich {14 ameoting wih Assistant Chief Dalim, aod the meeting 15 welll geo. ffom firtherdicussing with him, he [15 _was scheduled for March ah, 2015, 16 already know tht improprites were relly bad just |18 Q. Didthat meeting tke place? 17 based onthe three-month investigation 17 A. Yes 18 Soarene now jus forts onhamicie,overimein_]12Q. What happend in the meting? 19 homicide? [19 A) Weopened the meng op— 20 A. Yeah. I wasnt concerned abou anything. m 20. Who's present, fis ofall? 21” concerned about what se right in font of me there, |21 A. Myself, Deputy Chief Fitegcrald, and Assistant Chief 22° Q.allesh 122 pola 23 A That im tying to make ight forthe sitzens the [23 ust th three of you? 24 twxpayers andthe citizens of Detotto make sure [24 A. ‘ust the thee of us. 25 that heyte getting ther fshare hee [23 allright Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 age 23 Page 31 1A. Soweopen the meeting up. The assistant chief 1 we disagree, like that, He all of sudden got up 2 acknowledges some of my accolades, some of my 2 from his desk, walked behind Deputy Chief Fitzgerald 3 accomplishments and tells me 'm doing a good job. 3 and Land grabbed a bat off the wall. He has alittle 4 We immediately begin discussing the fraud. 4 batcollection. 5 So during the discussion of fraud, Deputy Fitzgerald, 5 Q. Whathappened next? 6 Deputy Chief Fitzgerald made a statement that Brandon | 6 A. He walked out ofthe office. So I looked over at 7 called me yesterday and said you got me on the three 7 Deputy Chief Fitzgerald, and I said hey, what's going 8 hours overtime 8 ——on,man. Idon't know. Is the meeting over. What's 9 Q. And that is Brandon Smith? 9 the deal. Deputy Chief Fitzgerald said the AC is 10 A. That's Brandon Smith 10 upset, and he's going to relieve some stress. You 11 Q. He admitted it. Atleast ~ 11 know, [don't know, I mean, he was definitely upset 12 A. Per deputy chief, yes. 12 Q. Whathappened next? 13 Q. Okay. 13 A. Soa few minutes later the assistant chief, he 14 A. And this was perceived by me. I would assume 14 re-enters the office. He took an aggressive and 15 Assistant Chief Dolunt and Deputy Chief Fitzgerald had 15 unprofessional position wielding the baseball bat with 16 anomission by Officer Smith of criminality of the 16 both hands standing, leaned over the desk directing 17 code of conduct violations 17 iis body so he was faceto-face with me as Iwas 18 Q. What happened next? 18 seated, And he shouted, And he's a very loud person 19 A. Sol immediately responded to Deputy Fitzgerald, 19 so if he shouted, it's even ~ probably everybody on 20 Deputy Chief Fitzgerald, and it was something tothe | 20 the floor heard it. He said I'm the fucking assistant 21 order of did you do a CRISNet or did you do 8 568 21 chief, and youre just a lieutenant. 22 Q. Whats the significance of that? 22 Hee continued to berate me for a few more 23 A. Well, according to our general orders, if'adepartment [23 minutes. No, e's say another minute, When Deputy 24 member gives us, you know, any admission of. 24 Chief Fitzgerald, he interrupted and he said hold on a 25 criminality or anything like tha, you're supposed to 25 __secto the assistant chief, He said you're both Page 30 Page 32 1 putiton a $68 memo, 1 passionate about this, but this meeting has involved 2 Q Allright. 2 info.an attack on me. So he kind of was taking my 3A. And didn't get a response from him. 3 side, thought. 4 Q. Noresponse. 4 So L asked to be excused and stood wp. 5 A. So Assistant Chief Dolor, in his usual animated way, | 5 Because I, you know, I don't need to take this so T'm 6 gave me aoh, my God, in his vernacular ike ob, my © —goingtoleave. The assistant chief told me sit down 7 God way. Which agai, I perceived this as an 7 and be quiet. We're going to finish this, which means 8 acknowledgment and affirmation of hey, there's some | 8 finish this meeting, 9 fraud going on 3 Q. Whathappened next? LO Q. What happened next? 10 A. Sothe assistant chief actually started going throu, 11 A. So the meeting gradually got hostile owards me. 11 itand started agreeing with me that there was some 12 Q. Howso? 12 gossiping going on, there was some rumors going on, 13 A. Tdon't think thatthe way that T considered the 13 and that Levalley does look like he placed himself in, 14 hostility, and atthe time Tbelieve that Deputy Chie | 14 this investigation. 15 Fitzgerald did, was Assistant Chief Dolunt knew that | 15 Q. What happened next? 16 —_Levalley, Deputy Chief Levalley had imerjected 16 A. Wediscussed the scope of the criminality and fraud at 17 himself into this situation because we were going over [17 homicide, and Deputy Chief Fitzgerald stated since Joe 18 __hise-mail, We were going over the email 18 began making noise 19 Q. Theemail? 19 Q. That's you? 20 A. Yeah 20 A. Yeah, Joe was big at making noise, the overtime court 21 Q Toyou? 21 time usage at homicide has dropped significantly. And 22 A. To Ginquinto, and I happened to get & copy oft 22 stated right away there's your red flag, 23° Q. Allright, 23 Q. Yes, What happened next? 24 A. Soaswewere going through the e-mail and itwasa |24 A. So the assistant chief asked me direetly what do you 25 ‘monotone back and forth, you know. We go disagree, 25 want us to do, 8 (Pages 29 to 32) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 33 Page 35 1 Q What happened next? 1 Q. Who did you address it to? 2 A. replied you told me I'm just feutenant, and 2 A. Laddressed it to Assistant Chief Dolunt, but ced 3 that’s what he told me. So I perceived that Assistant 3 theDC. 4 Chief Dotunt was asking me fora resolution when, in 4 Q. Thank you 5 fact, Leame to the executives for the resolution. 5A. Fitzgerald, Yes 6 Q. What happened next? 6 Q Youmay continu. 7A. Sol -was taken back by, you know, him asking me what | 7 A, Sol suid Assistant Chief Dolunt, ater our somewhst 8 "todo and he's my boss. 8 volatile meeting yesteréay, I went home and had 9 Q. What happened next? 9 difficult sleeping because I was contzmplating some of 10 A. Assistant Chief Dolunt then stated Iwill confer with | 10 thethings you said, One thing that stands out that I 11 someone regarding Levalley's disparaging e-mail. The | 12 _shoud have responded to more firmly is when you asked 12 meeting ended with no resolution. | exited the 12 me what do you want us todo. 13 office. B 1 as litle taken back atthe time, OF u As I was exiting the office, Deputy Chief 14 course L want 2 competent criminal departmental 15 —_Levalley was standing ouside the office with our 15 investigation. And if t takes it outside of the 16 discipline advocate, Mike Parish That made me a 16 department, so be it. So here we go again, me telling 17 ite concemed 17 him we cant handle this inhouse. 18 Q Why? 18 Q Continue withthe e-mail, What doss it say? 19 A, Because I dort know how long they're out inthe hall, {19 A. There are too many high-ranking officers involved in 20” and I was sure ~~ would think you can hear right 20 some way, shape, or form. Again what I presented to 21 through that office. Those walls are paper thi 1 you and Sergeant Lever was criminal and violation of 22 Q. What's the discipline advocate? 22 the department rules and regulations, and you 23 A. Heisthe actual one who would charge members. and he | 23 concurred, as did Deputy Chief Fitegerald 24 is the advocate forthe department trying to conviet, 24 ‘When Deputy Chief Fitzgerald stated that 25 when Linitiatd this investigation of overtime Page 34 Page 36 1 Q Ise, Charge members with discipline? 1 this investigation, overtime and court time dropped 2 A. Yes 2 significantly, that should raise are flag that the 3 Q. Okay. What happened next? 3. problom is pervasive inthe unit, We only recently 4A. Sowhat happened next slater on that day, Deputy 4 gotacourt book. 5 Chief Fitzgerald came down, and we went in the pop 5 Q Allrigh, What was the significance ofthat, that we & —roomand we talked, And Deputy Chief Fitzgerald old | 6 only recently got a court book? 7 mo he thouht it was inappropriate the way the 7A. Accourt book actually helps you keep track of who's 8 Assistant Chief Dotunt yelled at me. 8 going to court. You have to writ in the book, and it 9 Q. What happened next? 9 gives us some control over ~ its nota free for al, 10. A. Soon March Sth sent a follow-up e-mail, which isin | 10 Q. Allright. Why didnt you just gett? 11 the packet here. 11 A. That [cant ~that hd to be with upper management. 12 Q InExhibit 7? 12 Q Allright. What happened next? 13 A. Yeah, 15 going to be ~ yeah, somy. Its going to 13. A. What happened next is on March Sth at about 2:00, 14 ‘bo in Exhibit 7 14 Captain Decker called me and told me to go down 10 15 Q Allzight 15. intemel affairs right away, 16 A. To Deputy Chief Fitzgerald and Assistant Chief Dolunt [16 Q. Allzight 47 summing up my perception of what happened in the | 17 A. SoT went down to intemal affairs, | brought 18 meeting before 18 Sergeant Hart, who's my union steward with me, because 19 Q. And essentially what did you say? 19 Tdid't now what was going on. Ijust came out of 20 A. Would you like me to reed the e-mail? 20 real --had a eal volatile mesting the day before 21 Q Sure 21 with the assistant chief, 22 A. So— 22 ‘So Commander Sims ofthe intemal affairs 23 Q. What's the date ofthe e-mail? 23 wanted me to come in her office privately, 24 A. Thedate of the e-mail is 3/15/2015, and I drafted it [24 Q. Allright. 25 when I got into work, 25 _ A. Soll told Sergeant Hart you can stay out in the hall, 9 (Pages 33 to 36) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 37 Page 39] 1 and! talked to her 1A. OnMay Sed - wot this starts involving me. 2 Q Goahead 2 Q. What happened next? 3A. Sol went inher office, and we discussed the fact | 3A. Wecan skip that. On May 11th, Imet with May 4 that nothing had been done regarding the fraud at 4 Lith, 2015, at 12:35 pam, Tmet with Captain Mounsey homicide since | brought it io their attention in 5S ofthe internat affairs, and he's right under } & _ November of 2014 © Commander Sims. And it was regarding my displeasure 7 Q_ Whathappened next? 7 with the way the homicide faud investigation was | 8 A. And! felcthatthere was a cover up that was 8 going H 9 continuing 2 told him that Idd think they were 10 Q. Youtold her ths. 10 handling the case propery. Ishowed him some of the || 11 A. Yes. She assured me that she would commence a | 2 _ documents involving Officer Smith, We talked about 12 thorough investigation then. 12 there was an actual 52 percent decrease in court time 13 Q. Whathappened next? 13. athomicide, and that's documented inthe Detroit News 14 A. She also wanted to know if felt threatened or 14 by Caprain Decker. | 15 intimidated by Assistant Chief Dolunt. And Iwasa |15 Q. What happened next? H 16 little perplexed because asked her how she heard | 16 A. Which was very telling, Captain Mounsey, he advised} 17 about the meeting, referring to what happened the day | 17 me that Sorgeant Lever had conducted an aut ofthe 18 before, and she just said it was brought to her 18 court slips at homicide to determine if, in fact, a 19° attention 19 defendant was scheduled ~ a defendant was scheduled 20 Q. She didn't say who brousht it to her attention? 20 toaappear in court that day. That's not what I 21 A. No. 21 requested 22 Q. What bappened next? 22 Q. What did you request? 23 A. SoTiold her that right now I didn't know how Ife. | 23 A. I wanted fo knov i the officers were subpoenaed to zo 24 Sowhat happened next is Iwas directed to talk to [24 there. S___ Sergeant Juan Ayala of internal affairs. 25 4 stated that was not good enough that Page 38 Page 40 2 Q Okay. Did you do that? 2 many members are not subpoenaed for everyone else's 2A. Yes, and thea we went in oom sight in internal 2 cases, and that many members including Officer Smith 3 affairs. And again that was recorded 3 _ were obviously obtaining money under false pretenses. © Q What happened? 4 Q Youtold him that 5 A. Sergeant Hart was in the room with me. Lbroughtmy | SA, Yes. 6 union steward in there. | provided Sergeant Ayala € —Q. Whet happened next? with all the same stuff that [had given Sergcant 7A. [further stated in my opinion that this was only a 8 Lever 8 cursory review of the matte and it was incomplete, a 3 Q Right cover up, and DPD should not have handled it in the 210A. Months prior 10 fest pace 12 Q. What happened next? 12 Q. What happened next? 12 A. Okay. $o.0n Match 6h, 2015, as athomicide. 1 |12 A. Wekkind of left saying that he was going to make @ 13 "was with Sergeant Har, Captain Decker, Lieutenant 13 “couple of changes tothe report, and he was signing 14 Boyle, and Sergeant Mike Russel. 14 offonit | 1s ‘Sergeant Mike Russel informed us that 15 Q Okay. No more investigation? 16 Officer Smith had just called him and said Lieutenant |16 A. Yeah. No more investigation 17 Tesio got my investigation pushed to imernal ffir 17 Q. What happened next? 18. Whathappened next? 18 A. Pd say this pretty much is all about me. What 19 A. [was not surprise, but lator that day 1 wont back: 19 “happened next was around August — no. Probably it 20” downto intemal flrs and inquired of Sergeant 20 was June, Ithink it was June 8th. gota subpoena 21 Ayala how the fraud investigation hac already become | 21 _for atrial board for Brandon Smith 22 common knowledge o Officer Smith andthe information, |22 Q. Okay. 23 andinformed him that there must bea leak. Andthet [23 A._And { was itl ken back thet it was atria 24 was recorded 24 board because I thought there might be some 25 Q. What happened next? 25 criminality in there 10 (Pages 37 to 40) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 41 Page 43 1 Q Why doyou say that? 1 Commander Giaquinto was looking ait and he's like, 2 A. Well, becanse you have documented fraud 2 he was really concerned. Because I dont know if he 3. Q. Did itrise tothe level of criminality in your 3 was inthe loop as rauch as Twas with all this stuf? 4 opinion? 4 going on, and he was already gone. He was already 5 A. Absolutely, Foran officer, yes. 5 transferred out of there. 6 Q. What happened next? 6 ‘So Lever agein said what do you want me to 7A. ‘Thetial board was adjourned, I'm guessing maybe 7 do, shut down the most elite unit inthe city? And 8 three or four times. 8 thas when Giaguinto was like, whoa, whoa, whoa 9 So right around November -- the one before 9 Hold ona second here, you know, And then he took it 10 testified, so fm going to guess thats November 10 back like this, which I dont even know ithe should 11 8th, I think tht’ the tral board date, Somewhere 21 have let us look tit, and he went in there. 12 right around there, If on a Wednesday. They're 12 Q And testified? 23. usually always on « Wednesday. 13 A_ Yeah, Tdon't know what his testimony was because = 14 Q. 2018 14 his testimony wasnt long; so I'm assuming he didn't 15 A. Yes, 2015. tim sitting inthe conference room with 15 do much on the Brandon Smith thing. That's why it had 16 Commander Giequinto and Sergeant Lever. 16 tobe tumed over to Sergeant Ayala months and months 7 Q. Sergeant Lever of = 17 ater, And I ended up testifying ~ I dont know. 1 1B A. From internal afeirs. 18 testified a month ater. 19° Q. Allright. 18 Q. Alleight 20 A. So Sergeant Lever~ you know, because Sergeant Lever |20 A. Like December 2nd. 21 and I have been sparing back and forth abot, you 21. Okay. What did you testify to? 22 know,he thinks m upsct with him, Andtoneeriain | 22 A. testified to tuning ths stuf over fo IA, to that 23 extent Iam upset with him. And the ony thing he 23 report, and it really wasnt much more than tht. 24 would ever tell me whenever I would sce him is 24 Q Allright. Did you tell them that you had documented 25 __ everything you told me, Joe, is true. What do you 25 riminal activity by Brandon Smith? Page 42 Page 44 1 went metodo. 2A. Yes. And the people who were the commander and the 2 So he actually pulled out his audit report, 2 two captains that were up there, I don't know if they 3 because I guess he had to goin there and introduce it 3. were not understanding why he wast charged with some 4 tw tart the tral board because that’s what kind of| 4 typeof fraud, Because the Commander Johnnie Thomas 5 initiated everything, is going to be the audit. 5 who was there was asking me did Brandon reimburse the 6 Q Allright © department for the overtime. 7A. Soe let me look at it and he let Commander Giaquinto | 7 T mean, I dont have any idea whether he ~ 8 “Look ait, And it was pretty bad, just the audit 8 soifyoute asking me whether he reimbursed, that 9 thathe did 9 mneans tht, you know, there's something wrong. But | 10 Q. What do you mean? 10 dont think there's anything that they can do over 11 A. That found that officers werent even going across |11 there because [don't know what ther powers are once 12 the street to court. They just were signing into the 12 the charges are already brought. 13 courtroom, 13 Q Washe charged with overtime oud? us (Out ofjust andlting, the way that the 14 A, No, And that’s one ofthe things ~ going back tothe 15 actual cour slips were filled out properly, heIet me | 15. meeting with Sergeant Lever, he admitted to me he 6 look atitkind of briefly. It was rally bad. 1 16 ——_nevereven submited a warrant, to get a warrant cant even tll you. It was avery small percentage 17 denied over there that were even filled out corectiy. Yougottohave | 18 Q. Okay, sign in sign out, have the officer in the courtroom 19 A. And, you know, 1 was a litle disappointed that you sign you out. Alot of that was done improperly. ft | 20 dat even bring warrant over there. We do that was really bad. 21 foralotof things, especially where I used to work 22 Q. So what did you conclude from that? 22 Q. Sodidyou consider that «cover up? 23° A. Well, Twas like ~ I was in amazement 23. A. Leonsidered ita eover up or i's just blatant not 24 Q. Why? 24 doing your job. But still consider everything, the 23 A, 25 Well, because nothing was done to anyone. So totality of everything, that nothing's realy been li (Pages 41 to 44) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 49 Page 47 1 done to anything or anyone, something's, something's | 1 investigation went, And, you krow, we had a litle } 2 really not right. 2 banter back and fort, that he sad that I've been out 3 So what happened next was on or about 3 onaledge. And, you know, {haven't been out on a I 4 December 4th ~ Im going to go into a litte bit 4 edge just want what's right, and it would just 5 about me. 5 imvtare me when people weren't doing what was proper. © Q Goahead, 6 So on December 7th, which was the following 7A. Thad amecting withthe assistant chief 7 Monday, went and met with my commander, Commander 8 Q Dohunt? 8 Wilson. And I asked the commander if was doing a 9 A. Assistant Chief Dolumt. So Lever would tell me 9 good job. And he replied, in fact, that F was doing. 10 numerous times you need to take alittle accolades for | 10 amexeetlent job, He liked the way that I was running, LL what you did because what you did has prety much | 11 the task foree, which isan elite unitin the ety | 12 straightened it out up there. I mean, guys started 12 Q. What's the name ofthe taskforce? 13 minding their P's and Q's. And whatever was 13 A. Itsthe homicide task force which works with Michigan 14 happening, it ceased 14 State Police, and we investigate all high-profile 15 ‘So I met with Assistant Chief Dolunt up in 15 homicides, police shootings, aot of other suff, 1 16 our pop room, and I told Assistant Chief Dolunt 16 think i's one ofthe most elite units inthe city. 17 think got it in here. I think it was December 4th. 17 Q Allright. 18 We went in the pop room, and I told 18 A. And was the officer in charge of thet unit 19 Q. Thisis 20157 19 Q Allright 20 A. Yes. Sony. Itold Assistant Chief Dolunt that 20 A. Sobetold:me Thandled my business. And then he 21 coming forward has caused mea jot of resentment in |21 asked me why, and I told him that I feared 22 the unit because I took away probably some overtime | 22 retaliation, And he said about whet. And I said the 23 and some court time thatthe guys were getting. And1 |23 whole overtime investigation, the whole homicide } 24 stated that again T was disgusted withthe results, 24 overtime investigation, fraud, And he said no one 25 and there's not much more Ican do. 25 __will mess with you while 'm here. ; Page 46 Page 43] 2 Q, Why were you disgusted with the results? 1 Q. What happened next? | 2 A. ‘There was no consequences for anyone. Brandon Smith | 2 A. I got transferred on January 15th, 3. ended up getting ~ and I still don't knovr this to be 3 Q. Would you consider that retaliation? 4 confirmed, but F think he got two days suspension for 4 A. Teonsider it retaliation, Absolutely. 5 doing that. And I mean, that ~ I know it's only the 5 Q Why? & one incident, but would think Ifyou would have 6 A. [didn't get a good reason why I was transferred 7 oked a lot deeper, it would have been just 7 Q Where did you get transferred to? 8 ——ontrageous. So, you know. And I actualy told him 8 A. Tho 9th procinct detectives 9 again that I think that an outside agency should have 9 Q Doing what? 10 investigated this. And Assistant Chief Dofunt told me | 20 A. Supervising detectives. And nothing has ever been | 11 that was very mature of me to put the department 11 documented for me. [have no counseling, no i 12 firs, 12 discipline, My work ethic is beyond reproach. 1 13° Q. Whatwas your reaction to thar? 13 havent taken a sick day since March of 1991 14 A. That | was involved with — lets just let it slide i gota bachelor’s degree. I graduated 15 because you're going to put the department frst, It 15 with honors. I've got numerous training. The people |; 16 was compliment stating that’s very mature of you to | 16 that work for me all would speak accolades about me. | 17 put the department firs. 17 And you'e telling mea month earlier, December 7th, I 18 1 was ate taken back, but that meant 18 sit with my commander who sits right down the ball || 19 that hey, in my opinion that's mature, You did what's | 19 from me, who comes over and talks to me all the time 20 right for the department, which to me thats not 20 that I'm doing a good job, and you're going to tell me 21 ight, Ljust was at my wits end. I didn't know 21 within that certain amount of period of time things 22 where else I could go with it. And, you know, before | 22 went wrong and nobody sat down with me and discussed 23 we even said that, T expressed my displeasure. 23 with me, you know, if there's a problem. } 24 Q You did. What did you say? 24 ‘There's steps in place where we're supposed 25 25, A._Itold him I'm disgusted with it, the way thatthe fo tulk to our people ifthere is a problem. And then 12 (Pages 45 to 48) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 10 aL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20, 21 22 23 24 Page 49 just that same wook I had a meeting with — we had a ‘meeting withthe lieutenants, with the commander and the captain, Commander Wilson and Captain Slappey. Nothing was ever mentioned to me about my work performance. ‘The next day we had a meeting with Deputy Chief Fitzgerald, We had my MSP lieutenant that was with me, Deputy Fitzgerald from his own mouth said the chief loves the tak force, Q What happened next? A. Well, then I get transferred on the 15th, So, I mean if the chief loved the task force, I got to think if he loved the task force, you got to Tike the direction ‘worked in the various units in this department. ‘There's three people on this department who hhave a top-secret clearance with the lie detector test at the FBI, end I'm one of them. Q. Of the three? A. Of the three, Q. Out of the entire DPD? A Yes. That have the top-secret clearance with the polygraph, which that puts you even at a higher level 0 you can be in certain areas in the FBI, certain areas in the FBI where other agents cant be in because they haven't taken the polygraph. Q. Ise. i i |) that’ going in. Because i ts going ina bad 14 A. They probably would pass. Im sure they would, but direction, T don think he woul Tove i 25 they jest dont want 1 have aceess to those ‘And I'm a firm believer that this ll comes 16 Q, Soyou said you filed a grievance? back = and there's lot more suffin hee, but i's 17 A. Yes. filed grievance, and the grievance number is 4st in regard 1 me; that this i iret retaliation 18 L604. My union filed i one 13 Q, Whats thestaus of your grievance now? Because of your investigation into the overtime st |20 A. Treally dont know. Tdont know. [think they got homicide? 21 ston Friday, and I'm not sre if the chief was served |A. Absolutely. And there's been some other people tat |22 with it because they mailed ito hit certified mail have made comments to mie tha I felt that were 23 ‘And Im ~ this is the fist grievance that threats 24 — tweever filed in my career, so dont really know |} Q Such as? eH 25 __whatthe process is or how it goes about, But its — Page 50] Page 52]) A. Other officers 1 thisall intact, This is al my stuf ight here. Such as? | 2 Andthen have all my documents, you know, my service A. Scrgcant Folks from the th precinst had come uptome | 3 rating, which sys Ihave the highest service rating, months earlier and said do you -- and Licutenant Boyle 4 you know, everything else. [ got all the e-mails in. was right there when he sid i He sid you got one 5 here anda the other stuff and -- you know. took under your car? 6 ‘What makes me just so suspicious i that 7 this was ost tthe highest levels in the department, | ‘A. Tsnid what do you mean. He sid you tined up a 8 andthen~ you know, Tknow that we're here about’ | homets nest, And know him, but] was upset. And | 9 Joe's thing, but mow you come ater me. : 1 said, quote, you got your shit stright? Because he 10 Q Joc Tucker? I ‘knows it's all involving the court time. You know, I 11 A. Yeah. I know I'm here for Joe; so I don't want to get Hi ‘mean, just that incident right there, you know, I was 12 into my stuff. This will, you know, eventually I hope i affended, Like me tying todo something ight, 13 allworkitselfout, But Ihave been distraught over youte coming after me? Never once was I over brought | 14 getting moved aver to the th precinct upto anybody's office and said hey, you knove what you | 15 ‘And the thing with moving me overt the id down hore, that was a prety ccuragcous thing 16 th precinct is when T went in and they told me [was ‘What they did is they transferred me so 17 being wansfemed they said we have an opening over anybody else who wants to come foward with some | 18 atthe Sth precinct detectives, Told the commander corruption, they're going to look at me and say man, 19 I want to go to patrol, And he said whoa, whoa, What Tm not coming forward with any comupson This» | 20 do yourmean you want ogo to patel. He sid you got what happens to you 21 allthese yeas in investigative experience. Tsai T got sterling career. Ifyou pull my 22 maybe can train some af these young guys. He sad file there's nothing in my file but accolades and 23 we gota spot over a th precinct detectives for you. awards, You tell me hove many people inthis ob right | 24 Tide think anything of. He sid now haven't taken a sick day in over 25 years or 25 want you to go back out, and I want you to think about 13 (Pages 49 to 52) Carroll Court Reporting and video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio pruary 4, 2016 Page §3 Page 55}, 1 it. Yetthat know that our captain, her gitfriend 1 that was going on with him, went end filed an EOC || 2 who she’ fends with, who se gos on tips with, | 2 complaint against me 3 Tm switching with her and she's coming over to 3 Q Against you? H 4 homictde. 2A. Yeah, aguinst me. i 5 Q Did she tke your job? 5 Q. Because you were investigating overtime fraud? f 6 A, She didn't take my job. They let the other licutenant 6 A. Yes. E 7 take my job. 2 Q. Criminal activity? : 8 Q. Whotook your job? 8 A. Right. And our department takes EEOC complains like SA. Licutenant Charles Clark. And the thing with my job | 9 they're candy. Because when I acually went down 10 was Isat down and I talked to the commander, and | 10 there, she hada stack like this. And the sergeant I 12 was really nice about it. And I actually talked to 12 down there, Elaine Buckner, said you know what these | 12 Deputy Chief Fitzgerald about it, 12 fare, And I said what. She said those are people who tl 3 Told them that there needed to be a 13 don't want to work 14 transition with my job. Twritea budget. Myjobis | 14 Q. EEOC complains? 15 notan ordinary lietenant job. I write a budget 15. A. Yes. The way our department works is once an 16 where Thave over $100,000 that Ihave to spend. Im | 26 officer usually once an offer files an EEOC 17 responsible for it all. Lhave a federal acount that 27 complaint, they move the boss, whether i's been 18 has, you know, 40, $0,000 that [ean write you a check | 28 investigated ort. Even ifs not anything ofa 19 right now. Ttold him there needs to be a transition sexual nature or anything they just move ther. i 20 Weneed to order new cars The budget is coming up So during that meeting, Decker told me that } 21 due. tney were going to move me because he made an EEOC || 22 |Whon I woe the budget a couple years ago, complaint about me. But somebody said whoa, hold on a 23 Ihhadto learn on my own. Itwas sent back to me second, He might have a whistleblower lawsuit, So 24 three, four, five times. Then last year I go it then they said whoa, whos, whos, and then they said ff 25 through. Tknow how to do that. : page Sf page 56]| 1 | didn't want to see everybody else suffer 1 soft anding ! 2 for whatever was happening to me. Because the cars| 2 ‘And that’s when ~ I brought this 3 areducin May. They'll be no cars. I said we need 3 transcript. That's when he was assigned out to CATS, 4 somewhat of transition. You know what they told me? | 4 which was running joke down at homicide because 5 Q Whar 5 thats avery soft landing. He's going to get a take ) 6 A. Report Monday. So I dont know what that was all & home car now too with overtime, H 7 shout sither. 7 Q Sohe did get soft landing. | 8 Q. Letme ask you e question. Commander Ginquinto has | 8 A. Absolutely. So he is under investigation, the focus 9 “testified this moming that you stated to him that 9 of guaranteed what's happening, and he gets acar and || 10 duting a discussion with Chief Craig, you were told by | 10 overtime. And it was kind of running joke down 11 the chiefto give Brandon Smith asoft ending. Did [11 there for everybody. They would laugh, | 12 you tell that to Commander Giaguiato? 12 Q Sowharif wo tke Captain Deckers deposition and he 13° A. Ttolé Commander Giequinto wino heard that. {wasn't |13 fooks atyou, you's inthe room, and he looks at you |) 24 atthe meeting. 14 and he says Joe, you never told me that, that’s not 15. Okay. Who heard it? 15 te? 16 A. Captain Eric Decker. And know fora facthelltell [15 A. No, he told me. 17 you 27 Q Okay 18 Why do you know fora fact hell tell you? Hes told 18 A. Yeah, | 19 you? 19° Q. Sowhat if he looks at you and says Joe, {never told 20 A. Oh, He'stold me, and he said he was irate about it. | 20-you that, that is not true? : 21 He said he knows right where it was st. He was 21 A. He's not that ype of guy. i 22 siting onthe chief's couch, 22 Q. He'snot? ! 23 ‘And tht meeting right there, hich Iwas 23 A Absolutely not } 24 privy to, Iwas told, was they were going io moveme | 24. You know him. ! 25 25 : I because Brandon Smith, kind of to head off everything ‘A._Iknow him pretty good. 1 know he's a stand-up type 14 (Pages 53 to 56} Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 57 Page 59 1 py. 1 remember: | 2 Q. Okay, 2 Q The interna atti audit? 3A. Hellldothe right thing. And, you know, doing the | 3A. Yes. 1dont remember, m not sure exactly when 4 right thing fm learning is avery difficult and hard 41 that~ but whenever that endt was requested, thats 5 thing because you would think doing the right thing, | 5 when, you know, we relly started spatking up saying & that people would be behind you. But sometimes, 6 hey, something's aot right here. And the commander, 7 they're not 7 you know, he wanted odo the right thing and ta do ® Q Yougot punished for doing the right thing in your 8 that, youknow, to order the aut ! 3” opinion, didnt you? 9 Q. Okay, And Commander Giaquinto was the commander over 10 A. Absolutely. 10 majorcrimes which included overseing homicide during Q Your witness, Counsel 11 this 2013, 2014 time period? (Oifie record at 2:39 pim.) 12 A. Yes, (Back on the record at 3:05 p.m.) 15 Q. And you mentioned earlier, we were talking about | EXAMINATION 14 offices, you know, gonerally ling EEOC complaints BY MS. JUNTTILA: 15 andtheir bosses geting moved or something ofthat 16 Q. Yougot to homicide in 2013, October 16 nature, Do you recall that testimony, when you talked 17 A. No, the end of November. 17 about that earier? 18 Q November 20132 18 A. Yeah. Imean it seems ike thatthe way thatthe 19 A. Yes. 19 department goes. mean, Pm thats probably a 20 Q. And at that time you became aware of issues relating | 20 generalization for me to say that because | dont f 21 topossible abuse of overtime and cout time? 21 really know how many people have sctusly besa moved 22 A. Sometime after that 22 hasedon the EEOC sift. Bu I mean, it just seems 23° Q. Howsoon? 23. ke thats the way itis ! 24 A. Itshard to say, and it was just rumor coming through | 24 Q._ Would you sty that filing an BEOC complaint is known 25 the nithat this isn't right, And it was kind of 25 kind of within the depertment as away o prevent i Page $8 Page 60 1 coming fiom our timekeeper, Barb KosofT(phonetic). | 1 being moved orreessigned or maybe getting reassigned || 2 She said, you know, there's some things going on 2 toamore favorable unit? i 3 around here that shouldn't be goingon. Andthen it | 3. A. No. Theonly comment Lean' say that thas the |) 4 wasn't too long after that that we went toa central 4 boss for that. The only thing Lean say is that when |} 5 timekeeping wire she was gone. I dida't have 5 wasn the sergeant who runs the BEOC, Sergeant | & —_ anything of substance then, & Blaine Buckner, she sad you know whet that stack is? 7 Q. Okay. But then it wasn't until you got thet e-mail 7 And she didnt say anything about ~ she said that's a 8” rom was it Tracey? | 8 stack of people who don't want wo werk, So dont 9 A, Felicia Tracey. | know what actually that meant, That meant that, you 10 Q. Policia Tracey who's now Felicia Russell? [10 know, either you get rid of your boss and then the 21 A. Tm not sure, but she is ~ 11 boss is nt going o be on you to work or something 12 Q. Sothat's the same person. 12 ike that. Pm taking i that it wasw't a postive 13. A. Yes 13 thing. She had a big stack of FOC complains 14 Q. Okay. So it wasn't until you got the e-mail from her | 14 Q. Have you ever filed an EEOC complaint? 1 15 that you actualy took the information to internal 15 A. No. | 16 affairs; corect? 16 Q Butyou said Brandon Smith filed one against you? f 17 A. No. Prior to that wo wore putting tuff together, 17 AL Yeah. Yes. 18 prior to that. We were monitoring the overtime and | 18 Q. Did you have to do anything to respond to that EEOC? 19. doing the weekends and bringing that stufFto Captain [19 Al Yes i 20 Decker and Commander Giaguinta 20 Q. Whardid you have todo? ! a1 When I got the e-mail, that's when Teame 21 A. Thad to go down to BEOC. } 22 forward, and we met wit the captain and the 22 Q You had to actually moot with the investiantor? 23 commander. And then there was alot of litle 23 A. Yeah. 24 different meetings that went on, ‘The audit actually | 24 Q._ When was that? Do you recall? [ 25 __ may have bcen ordered before that. [realy don't 25 A. Lets see, December, March, April. Let's say Lthink | Carroll Cou: 15 (Pages 57 to 60) Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio 3 Maybe I wasn't down there until March, April. Tim not really sure ofthe date. MR. EDWARDS: What yea? ‘THE WITNESS: 2015 MR, EDWARDS: Okay ‘THE WITNESS: Yeah, BY MS, JUNTTILA: Q. Are you aware of what the outcome of that EEOC complaint is? AL No, Q._ Did you provide any documents or varisten statements or anything to the EEOC investigator? A. No. It was just questions ~ I think the EEOC complaint, fom what | ean recall, was against me and several other people, supervisors that were kind of like out to get him. And it was ~ no, There was no documents or anything like that. [ean probably kind of tell you exactiy when it-- it happened in March, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 February 4, 2016 Page 61 Page 63 1 he filed it somewhere in December. I'm guessing. A. No. Q. Oh. You'te saying the internal, lke the police EEO you're talking about. A. I's still EEOC, I don't know the difference between the federal EEOC and the state EEOC. I don't know. T think you go to ours first. I don't know. 1 think if you go to the federal one, they still tell you to go bask -~ I don't really ~ I don't know the process, but she's EEOC. I guess she is So you were transferred to the 9th precinct? | A. Yes, (Q. And you'r the frst lieutenant atthe Sth precinct? A. Idon't consider myself thet, but I guess that's the title . Sodoes that mean like ifthe captain is,you know, — out, then you are the captain ofthe unit or the precinct? A. I guess that's what they say. I'm just getting used toit. I've only been there a few weeks. } MR. EDWARDS: !'m sory. Did you say 20 Q. Butyou're the highest ranking lieutenant inthe 9th supervisors that were out to get them? 21 precinct ‘THE WITNESS: To get him, The EEOC 22 A. Idhaveto look and see in our general orders exactly complaint was against afew people ftom what Irecall, | 23 where it distinguishes the first lieutenant from the MR. EDWARDS: 1 see, 24 ——ientenant. I'm not sure if ts in there, It very BY MS. JUNTTILA: 25 well may by Tm not sure Page 62 Page 64) LQ. Doyou remember who else it was [a But I considered my job as the officer in 2A. Nov no. 2 charge of the homicide task force as a very 3 Q. Doyou remember what he alleged in terms of was it | 3 prestigious jo that handled -- that was under a fot 4“ rave discrimination, age discrimination? 4 of pressure and handled very high-profile cases and 5 A. Wehed big go around in the EEOC complaint in the | S police officer involved issues and stuff like that. 1 5 roomitscf because he's nota protected clas, That © considered that a preity high level when you're 7 inmy opinion is one ofthe problems with our EEOC. | 7 writing budgets and doing stuff tht other lieutenants 8 You know, and they didn't know what to do. 8 aren't doing. And Ihnad a take home cat. I ° Thad my attorney there with me, and they 2 Q Interns of your base pay, dd you have to take pay 10 ida'tknow what to do because I said he's nota 10 cutto get transfered tothe 9th precinct? 11 protected class. They had to go out in the hall and 11 A. Yes. 12 everything. Because he's white, H's Caucasian. And [12 Q. You're actually getting paid less base salary? 13 my argument was what protected clas is he. 13 A. Oh, base. No, the base salary's the same, but I ost u ‘And, you know, they ended up coming back «14 some benefits. 15 in,and they ended up ordering me to answer the ] 15. @. Meaning like the take home car? H 16 questions. So I'm ordered todo it. 'm going to do 16 A. Andstandby time. Lwas eligible for standby time 17 it, But I mean, you almost sound like you agree with |17 and, you know, I would get overtime because I not only 18 where was. 18 was ike the administrative lieutenant, ! would 19 Q. Tmjusteurious. 19 actually be out there investigating with the guys; so 20. A. Yeah. Las curious, too, Because I don't 20 would make seenes with them, foo, So that was 21 understand, you know, Those are protected classes for |21 overtime 22 a reason, and L don't now ifourdepartment actually | 22 Q. Are you aware thatthe Wayne County Prosecutor's |) 23 is, youknow, eausing more work foritselfor not. 1 [23 Office was consulted regarding Brandon Smith's 24 dort know. 24 overtime fraud? 25 _Q_ Did you actualy goto the federal BEOC office? 25 A. They may have been consulted. I dont know if they 16 (Pages 61 to 64) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 65 Page 67 1 have thet in writing ono, bu dont believe a 2 Q. What were those? Do you recall? ; 2 warrant request was ever submited, 2 A. [Wink he mentioned Alex Vinson | 3 Q Butyou areavare that they were consulted 3 Q Vinson? 4 A. Ibelive he sad that they were consulted ater we 4A. Vinson, V-EN-S-O-N, And I cant remember who ese 5 sarted questioning about the warrant request 5 ButT mean he was, he was real main eulprit, Tknow © Q. Well endits the prossouors ofice that determines 5 that, He mentioned Alex. f 7 whethera warrants going tobe fsued; comet? 7 But here we go. That we're only talking ! 8 A. No. Wetypeup the warrant and bringitoverto them, | 8 about ~ I dont believe we're talking about 9 and then they stamp a denial ont. Thats being 9 criminality here, I don't think. Because ¥ don't thorough 10 think tate went to that extent. 1 think i was an Q Okay 21 aut whothor these slips ~ you know, whatever these A. Sol understand that that's whether they woutdsay [12 guys were doing with their hours and stuff lke that. that that’s not a warrant oF ao, we sil ype ft up, 13 Tdont belive there's any criminality in there send itover. And, you kaow, they deny alot of 14 because T would think he would have had to go into an Stull: Butto be thorough, put tha jake together. 15 audit nk a fll criminal investigation, 16 Q. And who replaced you when you transfered tothe 16 Ad there was couple oer officers that 17 presina? 17 he said bat just remember Alex because Alex just | 18 A. Acuslly who roplaced me on the ask fore? 18 gotinsome trouble for some stuf. ! 19 Q Comeet 18 Q. Whats Alex's rank? i 20 A. Lieuooant Charles Clark 20 A. Alexis asergeant H 21 Q. Andis he African American? 21 Q. Inwhat unit, homicide? 22 A Ves. 22 A. Hews 23 Q. Aad doyouknow who replaced Lieutenant Charles Clark? |23 Q. Is he not there anymore? 24 A. Tiffany Stewart 24 A. He’ fired I 25__Q. Andis she Affiean American? |25__Q. Do you know why? seat Page 66 Page 68|/ 1A Yes 2A. Then 2 Q Areyou and Sergeant Lever friends? 2 Q. Isitrelated to overtime or cour time fraud or : 3A. Whats your definition of eins? 3 actual ike — i 4 Q Illask you. I mean, I guess — 4A. Hestole property. } 5 A, Dowe go out ever been out for anything drinks or | 5. Were you involved in his termination? © anything like tet? No. Doll consider him anice gty | 6 A. No. 7 and the rest of that? Yes. | 7 Q Doyou recall when he was fired approximately? 8 Q Soatwork you would consider him tke awork fiend? | 8 A. I be guessing. Idon' know. Maybe six, seven 9A. Yeah. Lwould say ito him andstufflike tet. But | 9 monthsago. Im just guessing 10 he knew from the get-go that we had hard feelings on | 10 Q.- So Imus! tying to understand the process in terms 11 this, and we mot so many times to meet to disagree. |11 of how officers should propery report cout time end 12 And, you know, he feltsome relief believeater te |12_theirovertime 13 showed me tha report o say hey this is what Tm B So as far as you understand, if an officer 14 taliing sbout. What do you want me todo. Andthen | 14 isnot on a subpoena or not on a witnes ist that 15 es ike, you know, it was ~- Im sure it was 15 comes from the prosecutors office, then they 16 overwhelming for him and that was just small aspect |16 shouldn't be paid by the police department fo be 17 oft 17 attending court on that ease? 18 ‘When you talk to Dietrich hell tll you. 18 A. Absolutely not. They should not be paid, 1'they 19 And hell tell you that he tld me everytime tht 19 don't have a subpoena or they're not an endorsed 20 everything Told him was true. Thats the one thing |20 witness, don't understand why they would be in 21 hellsay. Everything you said was tue, 21 court 22 Q. Did the audit of homicide uncover others that were [22 Q. And» 23, abusing court time and overtime other than Brandon [23 A. And theres other examples, too. 24 Smith? 24 Q. Whatare those? 25 _A. Hementioned a couple of names. 25 A. Well, her's an example: Let’ say somebody delivers 17 (Pages 65 to 68) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 63 Page 71 1 aubpoenato.awitness, So Ideliverasubpoenato | 1 concemed because he was the boss over this and you 2 you to show up in cour, and then Igo to court for 2 canitknow everything. ButI mean, he was lke whos, 3 two weeks by delivering tha subpoena. That's not 3 this is eye opening to me 4 proper. For one, you weren't subpoenaed. The only 4 And I know he said Alex ~ he actually L 5 way that you'd be subpoenaed is due diligence. So 5 volunfccred it up. We didn't look atthe report that © that means tha, you know, maybe you getto go tothe | 6 mnich, but he was just showing out of 180 something, 7 frst date. Tha’ a big gray maybe. Tustin case 7 found $9 diserepancies and this and hat, And that 8 the person doesnt show up. 8 really opened the commander’ eye. And he kind of 9 But I would still say no because this wanted o show me, Jos, what do you want me to do? 10 prosecutor wll call you ifwe need you. Butforyou 10 Thisis only taste of wha’ going on. What do you. 11 tokeepon going and then welll o back towere you an [11 want todo, clase the whole unit dawn? 32 —_ endorsed witness and you weren't so— Well, you know what, they closed nareoties 13 Q. Soinaease lke thay, from your, you know, time in |13 down, They closed the whole unit own, Thatsa ft 14 the department and your workin internal affairs, you |14 pretty elite unit, and we were without a narcotics |) 15 know, what would happen or what should happen toan [15 unit for a little while. A 16 officer that is going to court when they shouldet be, | 16 Q. And the audit report that you're refering to that ——_f 17 you know, they're not under a proper subpoena oron a |17 Sergeant Lever had, was that just aso homicide or ff 18 witness ise? 18 was that like a full maar evimes alt report? H 12 A. ‘They probably should at east be charged, BecauseT |19 A, That vias just to homicide, from what he had told me. | 20 “know there's numerous people [can think of Frank |20 Q. You testified to eatlier a lot about what happened 21 Center phonetic) over atthe 9th precinct. Hewas |21 with Brandon Smith as being par ofa, Ithink you |) 22 actually making up court slip, putting the wrong rame |22 used the word cover up, Do you recall that testimony? 23 down 23 A. Yes ; 24 ‘We ust had an officer from narotis, 24 Q Ando you beliove that that over up for Brandon 25__ Sergeant Miyron Weathers, He got cauoht with like 29_| 25 "Smith that you're refering to is because of his I Page 70 Page 72 1 court slips. And what happened to him? He actually | 1 gelatonship as Deputy Chief Levalley’s 2 gotafelony. He got fired 2 brothersin-law? ! 3 So, you know, {don't ~ you know, if 3A. Iwvould think that that could have something todo | 4 its~tomeeven fits one, one is 00 many 4” witht, Beeause the way Talways looked atitisif | 5 because now you start questioning people's integrity 5 twas anybody else, it would have been deat with 5 And Lwant this department oe profesional and held | 6 rightaway. So, you know, I doit relly care to 7 twahigh standard 7 speculate. Bu, you know, if yo ook a the totality 8 ‘You know, when Itold you guys cari when | 8 oF everything and there’ sil no resolution and, you 9 talked tothe assistant chief and fold him what 3 Know, you go into a meeting and you have two of your | 10 Wenldhappen inte suburbs, he said hey'be fred, |10 _aaperits ay we a you want yo do. twaent 21 Sohow are we going o be any different than them and [11 Deputy Chiet Fitzgerald, Itwas AC Dolunt, Cm 12 wewanto make as much money as them and he est of |12 coming fo you fora resolution. You're the boss. | 13° thar? mean, thas a rally tough question B So, I mean, thas almost like tipping the | 14 Because I think once you do it once, think tht 14 hand when I believe iit would have been anybody 15 you're going to continue to doit, So don't know. 15 else think they would bave been dal with. Thats 16 Thats hard, That's a difficult job working down in |16 _just you know, end that’ only roy opinion. ! 17 tayand did 17 Q. Welland in your opinion you dont believe tat the) 18 Q. Right, That audit report that you said that Sergeant |18 coverup for Brandon Smith an I'm using your terms 19” Lavershowed you while you were at Brandon Smith's |19 so 20 wal board hearing 20° A. Okay. A. Yes 21 Q. Youknow, obviously forthe record, The coverup that Q Do you recall what other officers were listed on that | 22 you referred to regarding how Brandon Smith was report? 23 reated maybe more favorably than you would have 24 A. No, butI do remember Lever because Commander | 24 anticipated was not because of Brandon Smith's race in|) 25 Giaguint sad well, who ese. Becausehe was really |25 your opinion? 18 (Pages 69 to 72) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 73 Page 75 1A. Yourknow, 1 don't ~ really don't have an opinion on | 2 ‘MS. JUNTTILA: T'm not suggesting that — 2 that. [don't know if race would have been a factor. 2 Tm not suggesting that. 3 dott you know, I don't know. That's something 3 MR. EDWARDS: Okey. 4 that I really dont care to speculate on because I 4 ‘MS. JUNTTILA: I'm asking this witness a 5 don't know. I don't know what the answer is. 5 question. ‘Your client filed a lawsuit against my © Q. Butyou don't have any evidence that it was because of | 6 clients alleging that he was treated unfavorably 7 his race or wasn't, correct? 7 because of his race. 8 MR. EDWARDS: Objection, He's given you 8 MR. EDWARDS: That doesn't make hitm a 2 his answer, Counsel 9 racist, malam. You can be black. According to the 20 ‘THE WITNESS: Yeah. I don't yeah. I 10 Supreme Court, if you teat a black person differently 11 don't have any evidence cither way. 1 ‘han a white person, that’s discrimination, You can 12 BY MS. JUNTTILA: bea woman. Ifyou treat a man different than @ woman 13 Q._Andas you sit here today, you don't believe that 13 and you're in charge, thats the definition of 14 Deputy Chief Fitzgerald is a racist, do you? 14 discrimination 15 MR. EDWARDS: That's not our claim. 1 15 We are not here charging Charles Fitzgerald 16 don't even know Deputy Chicf Fitzgerald. I never 16 or anybody else with being a racist. And let's be 17 claimed ~ my pleadings doesn't say he's 2 racist. 17 clear on this, because tha's what happens and I'm in 18 MS. JUNTTILA: I'm asking ~ 18 ial, and you'e standing up saying well, Attomey 19 MR. EDWARDS: No, no, no. 19 Edwards is accusing Charles Fitzgerald ot his lovely 20 MS. JUNTTILA: ean ask him ~~ 20 wife Kelly Fitzgerald of being aracist. That's not 21 MR. EDWARDS: You can ask him whatever you |21 _ourclaim. Let's be clear. 22 want, Counsel, but let’ be fair. [have never 22 MS. JUNTTILA: Okay. Well, Im glad that 23 accused Deputy Chief Fitzgerald of being a racist 23 we're clear on that 24 My-~ look at my complaint. Itsays my 24 BYMS.JUNTTILA: 25 client, Lieutenant Joe Tucker, was treated differently | 25 _Q,_Now can you answer the question? eh Page 74 Page 76 1 because of his race. I've never claimed that Deputy 1A. DoT think he's a racist? 2 Chief Fitzgerald isa racist. Idont know. I mean, 2 Q Yes. 3 seems like a nice guy to me. 3A. From what know of him, no, I dont, I a {I don‘ throw that term around, and I don 4 Q Doyouthink Lieutenant Kelly Fitzgerald is aracist? |} 5 want you to throw the term around because now you're | 5 A. From what I know of Kelly, no, I do not. L 6 changing the character of our lawsuit © Q Assistant Chief Dolunt, do you believe that he isa | 7 MS. JUNTTILA: I disagree with you 7 racist? I 8 MR. EDWARDS: Well, you can disagree. 'm | 8 A. Till gotothe same statement, From what [know from 9 just saying ~ 9 working, all that, no. 10 MS, JUNTTILA: Tan ask this witness this 10 MR. EDWARDS: Let me just have a continuing 11 question. LL objection. This case is not about any ofthe 12 MR. EDWARDS: You can ask him whatever you |12 defendants being racist. 13 want, I just want the record to be clear. This 13 MS. JUNTTILA: ‘That's your prerogative, 14 lawsuit does not involve me saying that Charles 14 ‘MR. EDWARDS: No, no. That's the law. 15 Fitzgerald wears @ Klan hood. That's racist 18 ‘MS. JUNTTILA: The law - 16 MS. JUNTTILA: certainty am not 16 MR. EDWARDS: I'm not held to e standard of 17 MR. EDWARDS: That's a racist. Or that 17 proving somebody is a member of the Ku Klux Klan, 18 he's David Duke. That's a racist. That's not our 1B MS. JUNTTILA: Jam certainly not 19° claim here, and lets aot muddy the waters with that 19 suggesting thet, Counsel. Tam =» 20 claim. 20 MR, EDWARDS: Well, you interjected racist 21 MS. JUNTTILA: The complaint speaks for 21 ina lawsuit. That word never is anywhere in the 22 itselt 22 tawsuit, T's never in Giaquinto's, Commander 23 MR, EDWARDS: Yeah, but wenever—where [23 Giaquinto's statement. And you all ofa sudden are |) 24 do yousee racist? ‘You don't see racist anywhere in 24 raising the standard that we're calling Caucasians 25 25 ‘my complaint, Counsel racists, These people used to be friends at one I 19 (Pages 73 to 76) Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-46! -2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 i Page Page 7) 1 point. 1 BYMS.JUNTTILA: 2 ‘MS. JUNTTILA: Lagree 2 Q. Okay, You can answer. 3 MR. EDWARDS: Close friends. 3A. Thaveno idea. 4 MS.JUNTTILA: [know this, 4 Q That's all Thave, Thank you. 5 MR. EDWARDS: You think Lieutenant Tucker | 5 RE-EXAMINATION & would be calling close friends a racist? Ho's just 6 BY MR, EDWARDS: 7 saying Im treated differently because of my color. 7 Q. Thavea couple of follow-up questions. As far as you 8 That's not racist & know, Detective ~ I'm sorry, Lieutenant, as far as 8 BY MS, JUNTTILA: 9 you know, was Brandon Smith demoted based on your 10 Q. Doyou have any reason to believe that Chief Craig | 10 investigation? 11 considered either Brandon Smith’s race or Lieutenant |11 A, No, he wasn't, 12 Tucker's race in how either ofthe transfers or 12 Q. Why doyou say that? 13 reassignments occurred? 13 A. Because i's my knowledge that Brandon Smith was 14 ‘MR. EDWARDS: Same objection. Itsnotan | 14 demoted ~ he made some comments racially, racial 15 expert witness here to be 15 comments on Facebook, and I believe that was brought 16 MS. JUNTTILA: I'm asking his opinion. 16 to the attention of the chief. a7 MR. EDWARDS: Let me finish my objection. | 17 don't know who brought it, He got up 18 Same objection. This witness is not here to give 28 there, and the chief actually demoted him and sent him 13 opinions on who's violated the laws of the 28 [believe from CATS to the 11th precinet and put him 20 ——_Elliot-Larsen Civil Rights Act. He's not an expert 20° onmidnights. 21 witness 21 Q. Allright. I want you to assume based on your 22 ‘MS. JUNTTILA: Counsel, that's a speaking testimony that you reported official wrongdoing within 23 objection, and it's not proper. the police department, and subsequently you were 24 MR. EDWARDS: Well, you ask an improper transferred toa lower position and suffered negative 25 question — consequences. If Told you that your whistleblower Page 78 Page 80 1 MS. JUNTTILA: It's not an improper Lights were violated, do you consider yourself a 2 question 2 whistleblower? 3 MR. EDWARDS: It is very improper. 3 MS. JUNTTILA: I'm going to object to the a MS. JUNTTILA: Ican ask him in his opinion | form of the question and foundation. You just argued 5 ifhebelieves~ | 5. with me about him not being able to give legal 6 MR.EDWARDS: Why are you raising your | ~——_ opinions, and now you're asking him about his legal 7 voice? 7 opinion with regards to being a whistleblower. a MS. JUNTTILA: ~ that Chief Craig 8 MR. EDWARDS: I'm asking about himself 9 MR. EDWARDS: Why are you raising your 2 You were asking about somebody else. 10 oie? 10 BY MR. EDWARDS: aL MS.JUNTTILA: Ican ask him in his opinion | 11 Q. Do you feel that your rights have been violated 12 if he believes that Chief Craig considered race in 12 because you reported official wrongdoing within the 13 making decisions for reassignments relating to either | 13 police department? 14 Brandon Smith or Plaintiff Joe Tucker. 14 MS. JUNTTILA: Same objection, 15 MR. EDWARDS: No, you can't, There’'sno | 15. BY MR. EDWARDS: 16 basis fort, It lacks @ foundation, and you're 16 Q. Youmay answer. 17 raising your-- 17 A. Yes, To, 18 BY MS, JUNTTILA: 18 Q. Nothing further. 29 Q. Youcan answer the question 19 MR. EDWARDS: Done? 20 MR. EDWARDS: Excuse me. And you're 20 MS. JUNTTILA: Yes. 21 raising your voice. And I've done nothing to you, 21 MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, 22 Counsel, o have you raise your voice at me, 22 (The deposition was concluded at 3:34 p.m, 23 MS. JUNTTILA: Tam not raising my voice. 23 Signature of the witness was not requested by 24 MR. EDWARDS: Now you're net, but you were. | 24 ‘counsel forthe respective parties hereto.) 25 25 ‘Maybe you didn't intend to 80) 20 (Pages 77 ¢ Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411Joseph Tesio February 4, 2016 Page 61 1 centiFicate 2. STATE OF MiciIGAN 3. COUNTY OF MACOMB 4 5 1, MAUREEN COLLIER, a Notary Publi and e for the above county and state, do hereby certify that 7. this deposition was taken before mea the ime and a place hereinbefore set forth; that the witness was by 3. me rs duly swom wo testy to the ith that his 20 isatrve, fll end oorect ranserpt of my 11 stenographi notes otken; and that am not 12 lao nor of counsel to iter party, nr 12 interested nthe event of his cae. Mu 18 16 v . 18 ; 13 20 Wewesm Coban a ‘MAUREEN COLLIER, CSR-7422 2 Notary Public 23 Macomb County, Michigan 24 My commission expires. Febranry 9, 2021 25 Carroll Court Reporting and Video 586-468-2411 21 (Page 81)