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[H.A.S.C. No. 110111]

HEARING
ON

NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT

FOR FISCAL YEAR 2009
AND

OVERSIGHT OF PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED

PROGRAMS
BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION

MILITARY PERSONNEL SUBCOMMITTEE HEARING

ON

BUDGET REQUEST ON THE VIEWS OF

MILITARY
ADVOCACY
AND
BENEFICIARY GROUPS
HEARING HELD
FEBRUARY 7, 2008

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON

43248

2008

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 5121800; DC area (202) 5121800
Fax: (202) 5122104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 204020001

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MILITARY PERSONNEL SUBCOMMITTEE

SUSAN A. DAVIS, California, Chairwoman
VIC SNYDER, Arkansas
JOHN M. MCHUGH, New York
JOHN KLINE, Minnesota
LORETTA SANCHEZ, California
THELMA DRAKE, Virginia
NANCY BOYDA, Kansas
WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina
PATRICK J. MURPHY, Pennsylvania
JOE WILSON, South Carolina
CAROL SHEA-PORTER, New Hampshire
NIKI TSONGAS, Massachusetts
DEBRA WADA, Professional Staff Member
JOHN CHAPLA, Professional Staff Member
ROSELLEN KIM, Staff Assistant

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CONTENTS
CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF HEARINGS
2008
Page

HEARING:
Thursday, February 7, 2008, Fiscal Year 2009 National Defense Authorization
ActBudget Request on the Views of Military Advocacy and Beneficiary
Groups ...................................................................................................................
APPENDIX:
Thursday, February 7, 2008 ...................................................................................

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THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 2008

FISCAL YEAR 2009 NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACTBUDGET REQUEST ON THE VIEWS OF MILITARY ADVOCACY AND BENEFICIARY GROUPS
STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
Davis, Hon. Susan A., a Representative from California, Chairwoman, Military Personnel Subcommittee .............................................................................
McHugh, Hon. John M., a Representative from New York, Ranking Member,
Military Personnel Subcommittee ......................................................................

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WITNESSES
Barnes, Joseph L., National Executive Director, Fleet Reserve Association ......
Becker, F. Jed, Vice Chairman, Armed Forces Marketing Council .....................
Bowers, Todd, Director of Government Affairs .....................................................
Johnson, David, Chairman, American Logistics Association ...............................
Moakler, Kathleen B., Director, Government Relations, The National Military
Family Association ...............................................................................................
Strobridge, Col. Steve, (Ret.), Director, Government Relations, Military Officers Association of America, U.S. Air Force .......................................................

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APPENDIX
PREPARED STATEMENTS:
Becker, F. Jed ...................................................................................................
Bowers, Todd .....................................................................................................
Davis, Hon. Susan A. .......................................................................................
Johnson, David .................................................................................................
McHugh, Hon. John M. ....................................................................................
Moakler, Kathleen B. .......................................................................................
Statement of The Fleet Reserve Association by Joseph L. Barnes ..............
Statement of The Military Coalition presented by Col. Steven P.
Strobridge, Joseph L. Barnes, and Kathleen B. Moakler ..........................
DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD:
Duffy, Peter J., Deputy Director Legislation, National Guard Association
of the United States ......................................................................................

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47
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121
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IV
Page

DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORDCONTINUED

Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America Issue Report, January 2008
on Mental Health Injuries, The Invisible Wounds of War ........................
Statement of The Naval Reserve Association ................................................
Statement of the Reserve Officers Association of the United States ...........
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD:
Mrs. Boyda ........................................................................................................
Mrs. Davis .........................................................................................................
Mr. McHugh ......................................................................................................

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FISCAL YEAR 2009 NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACTBUDGET REQUEST ON THE VIEWS OF MILITARY ADVOCACY AND BENEFICIARY GROUPS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,
MILITARY PERSONNEL SUBCOMMITTEE,
Washington, DC, Thursday, February 7, 2008.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 3:04 p.m., in room
2212, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Susan A. Davis (chairwoman of the subcommittee) presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SUSAN A. DAVIS, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA, CHAIRWOMAN, MILITARY
PERSONNEL SUBCOMMITTEE

Mrs. DAVIS. Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for being

here. I want to call this meeting to order.
I want to thank all of you for your attendance today. And we understand that it has been relatively short notice, although you
seem very well prepared. So I hope that we were able to give you
the kind of information that you need.
Our hearing today focuses on the views of military advocacy and
beneficiary groups. Similar to last year, we have invited a handful
of organizations to testify on a wide range of programs and policies
that affect our servicemembers, retirees, and their families.
Historically, as you all know, many of these organizations have
been asked to share their views at individual hearings that focused
on specific topics. And that has been very useful, of course, to the
subcommittee. But sometimes we were only able to hear from people on a specific hearing topic. And so, we havent been able to necessarily put that into a full context and see many of the competing
requests that you all naturally are going to be bringing and that
come from your organizations.
I know last year we were interrupted by a series of votes. But
the subcommittee did find it informative to have just a beneficiaryfocused hearing.
In anticipation of the hearings that the subcommittee will have
on a wide range of topics, we thought it would be helpful again
today to hear from the advocacy and from the beneficiary organizations as we begin our efforts to go out to members districts as well
and to see firsthand these issues and how that insight might help
us as we develop the Fiscal Year 2009 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which is what we are going to be doing, as you
know, in the coming year.
Given that we will have limited resourcesand I think that is
no surprise to anybodyand especially the difficulty in finding
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mandatory spending to address a multitude of needs, we hope that
the subcommittee will be able to hear from you about what your
key priorities are for the servicemember and for their families.
I want to welcome you all today. Mr. Todd Bowers, Government
Relations Director for Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America;
Mr. Joseph Barnes, National Executive Secretary for the Fleet Reserve Association; Mrs. Kathleen Moakler, Director of Government
Relations Department, National Military Family Association; Colonel Steve Strobridge, USAF, Retired, Director, Government Relations Military Officers Association of America; Mr. David Johnson,
Chairman of the Board, American Logistics Association; and Mr.
Jed Becker, Vice Chairman of the Armed Forces Marketing Council.
I wanted to mention that Mr. Barnes, Mrs. Moakler, and Colonel
Strobridge are here not just to represent their individual organization, but you are here also to represent the positions of The Military Coalition (TMC), which is comprised of over 30 uniformed
services and veterans organizations. And we know they all would
love to be at the table. So you have a special burden on you today.
Given the time limitations, of course, we cannot hear from everybody, so we have asked the coalition to represent its members
today.
I want to thank all of you, thank you for your testimony. And
we look forward to the hearing today.
And I want to turn to Mr. McHugh and see if he has any comments that he would like to make.
[The prepared statement of Mrs. Davis can be found in the Appendix on page 43.]
STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN M. MCHUGH, A REPRESENTATIVE
FROM NEW YORK, RANKING MEMBER, MILITARY PERSONNEL SUBCOMMITTEE

Mr. MCHUGH. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I will try to be very

brief. I would ask that my full statement be entered in the record
in its entirety. And let me note that I think you covered the waterfront pretty effectively, and your speech could stand in good stead
for mine, in fact. But let me add my words of welcome to all of our
panelists.
Most of them represent organizations that are certainly no
stranger to this subcommittee. And we thank them, as you noted,
Madam Chair, for their continued advocacy for the systems that
their members rely upon and for those concerns that their members bring to them.
And all of you really provide an invaluable link between folks
that we need to focus on and care a great deal about and their concerns and help us better understand what we need to do. I want
to give a particular tip of the hat to Mr. Bowers, whose first appearance here, particularly in his association with Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, shows the continuing sacrifices and
service that our men and women in uniform make. And we look
forward to your comments.
As you noted, Madam Chair, all of the groups didnt have a lot
of forewarning. As I looked at the presentation of the formal testimony for The Military Coalition, about 50 pages and 50 issues they

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raised, we may want to compress it even more next year. But I
think what that does show, in all seriousness, is how broad the
range of challenges that we face.
And as you noted, Madam Chair, every dollar we have to spend
we probably have $1,000 or more in places that we could well expend it. And again, to echo your words, Madam Chair, the fact that
we can benefit from the focus and from the prioritizations that our
presenters will provide to us here today is very, very important.
And as we go forward in the rest of the hearings, this our first,
as the chairwoman noted, in the development of the Fiscal Year
2009 NDAA, we certainly look forward to working with all of you.
And ultimately, at least I would strongly recommend, working with
Chairman Skelton and, of course, the ranking member and others
and having our imprint on the House Armed Services Committee
(HASC) view and estimates letter to go the Budget Committee. Obviously we need to make sure that we weigh in and do our best to
try to extract the resources under that process that would be necessary in this challenge.
So thank you, Madam Chair, for the leadership in bringing us together here today. And I look forward to everybodys testimony.
[The prepared statement of Mr. McHugh can be found in the Appendix on page 47.]
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. McHugh. I think we are
just going to go down the line.
Mr. Bowers, if you would like to start. And we will go ahead and
hear everyones testimony and then take questions. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF TODD BOWERS, DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT
AFFAIRS, IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA

Mr. BOWERS. Thank you. Ms. Chairman, ranking member, and

distinguished members of the committee, on behalf of the Iraq and
Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA) and our thousands of
members nationwide, I thank you for the opportunity to testify
today regarding military personnel policies and programs.
As the war in Iraq continues into its fifth year, this generation
of troops faces new and unique problems. Today IAVA is releasing
our annual legislative agenda. Our legislative agenda covers the
entire warfighting cycle, before, during and after deployment, and
outlines practical solutions to the most pressing problems facing
Iraq and Afghanistan veterans today.
In my ten-year career as a Marine reservist I have had the honor
of serving in Iraq twice. During these tours it became clear to me
that taking care of the individual on your left and right is paramount to accomplish your mission. Only when I returned home did
I understand that taking care of the people you served with once
you get home is just as important.
This is not only a moral issue, but it is a national security concern. A rifle is only as strong as the mind controlling it.
Our 2008 legislative agenda is now available on our website. And
excuse the shameless plug, but if everybody goes to www.iava.org,
they can see what I have brought for the committee today.
We also have along with our legislative agenda reports on many
issues facing veterans today, things ranging from traumatic brain
injury (TBI), mental health injuries to many others.

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I have brought copies of our legislative agenda and reports with
me today for your convenience. In the interest of brevity today I
limit my testimony to our key proposals regarding mental health.
Rates of psychological injuries among new veterans are high and
rising. At least 30 to 40 percent of Iraq veterans, or about half a
million people, will face a serious psychological injury, including
depression, anxiety, or post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
Multiple tours and inadequate time at home between deployments increase rates of combat stress by 50 percent. The ramifications of psychological injuries are clear. Untreated mental health
problems can and do lead to unemployment, domestic violence, substance abuse, homelessness, and in worse scenarios, suicide.
Twenty percent of married troops in Iraq say that they are planning a divorce. At least 40,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have
been treated at a Veterans Administration (VA) hospital for some
form of substance abuse. The current Army suicide rate is the highest it has been in 26 years.
Reports released just last week found a 20 percent increase in
the number of suicide attempts in the Army alone. The first step
to coping effectively with the mental health crisis is addressing the
stigma attached to receiving mental health treatment.
More than half of soldiers and Marines in Iraq who test positive
for a mental health injury are concerned that they will be seen as
weak by their fellow servicemembers. One in three of these troops
worry about the effect of a mental health diagnosis on their career.
As a result, many troops who need care do not seek treatment.
IAVA supports efforts already underway to reduce mental health
stigma. The Air Force, for instance, has seen a 30 percent drop in
suicide rates since the institution of a comprehensive suicide-prevention campaign. IAVA recommends creating a Department of Defense (DOD)-wide initiative to share best practices for mental
health treatment, including outreach and education regarding mental health for both troops and most importantly, their families, and
an emphasis on education for military leaders in the service and
leadership academies.
In addition, servicemembers suffering from service-connected
mental health issues should not be improperly penalized for their
injuries. IAVA recommends imposing an immediate moratorium on
military discharges for personality disorders until an audit of past
personality discharges is completed.
Moreover, troops should be able to seek voluntary alcohol and
substance-abuse counseling and treatment without the requirement
of command notification. Such notification could be at the discretion of the treating mental health professional.
Finally, IAVA supports amending the Uniform Code of Military
Justice (UCMJ) to establish a preference for mental health treatment over criminal prosecution for military suicide attempts. I am
proud to announce that IAVA has partnered with the Advertising
Council, also known as the Ad Council, on a very important project
that will have nationwide impact on stigma that is often associated
with members of our military who seek mental health treatment.
Over the next three years, IAVA will be working with the Ad
Council on a massive media campaign aimed at informing the
American public and our Nations military that seeking help is a

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sign of strength rather than weakness. We hope that the outcome
of our efforts will be an American public that is more understanding of the difficulties that veterans face when they reintegrate into
society.
But in addition to addressing stigma, the Department of Defense
must do a better job of screening troops for mental health problems. The current system of paperwork evaluations, the Post-Deployment Health Assessment (PDHA) and Post-Deployment Health
Reassessment (PDHRA), is ineffective.
A 2006 study led by Army Colonel Charles Hoge, MD, at the
Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, looked at the results of
Iraq veterans PDHAs. Only 19 percent of those returning from
Iraq self-reported a mental health problem. But 35 percent of those
troops actually sought mental health care in the year following
their deployment.
If the PDHA is intended to correctly identify troops who will
need mental health care, it simply does not work. A follow-up study
in 2007, also published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, concluded, Surveys taken immediately on return from
deployment substantially underestimate the mental health burden.
Although the PDHRA, which troops fill out six months after deployment, is more likely to identify mental health injuries, its overall effectiveness is also dubious. Troops may not be filling out their
forms accurately. Troops needing counseling are not consistently
getting referrals. And those with referrals do not always get treatment. IAVA therefore supports mandatory and confidential mental
health and traumatic brain injury screening by a mental health
professional for all troops, both before and at least 90 days after
a combat tour.
After stigma and inadequate screening, the final barrier to mental health care is lack of access. The number of licensed psychologists in the military has dropped by more than 20 percent in recent
years. Less than 40 percent of troops with psychological wounds
are getting treated.
Funding within the Department of Defense must be focused on
current shortages of mental health professionals. IAVA recommends a study of reasons for attrition among military mental
health professionals and the creation of new recruitment and retention incentives for mental health care providers such as scholarships or college loan forgiveness.
Military families with TRICARE should have improved access to
mental health care services. And active duty families should be
given unlimited access to mental health care and family and marital counseling on military bases.
I thank you for providing me the opportunity to testify before you
this afternoon. I hope that the information I have provided will
help to lay the groundwork for the committee to eliminate the obstacles that our Nations newest veterans are facing. It would be
my pleasure to answer any question you may have at this time.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bowers can be found in the Appendix on page 49.]
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bowers.

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And I let Mr. Bowers go about one and a half minutes over. And
if everybody can try and stay in the five minutes, that would greatly appreciated. I know that your time is very precious, and we
want to hear from you. So if you can do that, great. We will let you
go over just a little bit. But that doesnt include all of us up here,
of course.
Please, Mr. Barnes.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH L. BARNES, NATIONAL EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR, FLEET RESERVE ASSOCIATION

Mr. BARNES. Madam Chairwoman, Mr. McHugh, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to present the concerns of The Military Coalition. The extensive coalition statement reflects the consensus of TMC organizations and extensive work by eight legislative committees, each comprised with representatives from the coalitions nearly three dozen
military and veterans organizations. I will briefly address key Active Duty, Guard and Reserve, and retiree issues, and my colleagues will then address other issues.
But first, I wish to thank you and the entire subcommittee for
the steadfast and strong support of our military personnel, retirees,
veterans, their families, and survivors, and particularly for recently
enacted wounded warrior enhancements. Sustaining adequate Active, Guard and Reserve end strength to effectively prosecute the
war effort and other demanding operational commitments is vital
to our national security. And TMC urges strong support for Army
and Marine Corps end strength increases in fiscal year 2009 and
beyond.
Wearing down the force contributes to serious morale, readiness,
and retention challenges. And the coalition remains concerned
about the Air Force and Navys ambitious end strength reductions.
Restoring military pay comparability remains a top priority, and
TMC urges this distinguished subcommittee to authorize at least a
3.9 percent pay hike. We appreciate your leadership authorizing
past higher than employment cost index (ECI) active duty pay
hikes. And despite significant progress on compensation levels, a
3.4 percent gap continues.
Housing standards determine local housing allowance rates,
which need to be revised to more appropriately reflect where service personnel are living. For example, only E9s, which comprise
1.25 percent of the enlisted force, are eligible for Basic Allowance
for Housing (BAH) for single-family detached homes.
The need to address permanent change of station (PCS) expense
reimbursements is detailed in our statement. These include temporary lodging expenses for Continental United States (CONUS)
moves, reimbursements for house hunting trips, car rentals when
vehicles have already been shipped, and authority to ship two privately owned vehicles overseas.
The coalition strongly supports giving credit for all active duty
service since September 11, 2001 for reserve retirement-age adjustment purposes. The coalition also supports reinforcing the employer support for the Guard and Reserve program to include tax
relief for employers of selected reserve personnel.

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Guard and Reserve issues are extremely important, and in addition to these concerns, dozens of other issues are addressed in the
Guard and Reserve commission recommendations. And the coalition respectfully recommends that this distinguished subcommittee
schedule a separate hearing focused solely on the panels findings.
TMC supports integrating Guard and Reserve, Montgomery G.I.
Bill (MGIB), and active duty MGIB laws under Title 38 along with
the restoration of basic reserve MGIB rates to the intended level
of approximately 50 percent of the active duty rates.
And in considering the transfer of education benefits to spouses,
it is also important not to forget currently serving Veterans Educational Assistance Program (VEAP)-era personnel who are not authorized to enroll in the MGIB. The coalition urges this distinguished subcommittee to act on recommendations of the Veterans
Disability Benefits Commission (VDBC) and implement a plan to
eliminate the reduction of VA disability compensation for military
retired pay for all disabled retirees.
Finally, the coalition remains committed to adequately funding
to ensure adequate access to the commissary benefit for all beneficiaries and appreciates this distinguished subcommittees effective
oversight of this important benefit. Providing adequate programs,
facilities, and support services for personnel impacted by Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) actions, re-basing initiatives, and
global repositioning is very important, particularly during war
time, which alone results in significant stress on servicemembers
and their families due to demanding operations commitments, repeated deployments, and other service requirements. Morale, Welfare, and Recreation (MWR) programs must also be adequately
funded.
Thank you again for the opportunity to present our recommendations. And I stand ready to answer any questions you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Barnes can be found in the Appendix on page 121.]
Mr. BARNES. Kathy Moakler will now discuss family readiness,
military spouse, and survivor issues.
STATEMENT OF KATHLEEN B. MOAKLER, DIRECTOR, GOVERNMENT RELATIONS, THE NATIONAL MILITARY FAMILY ASSOCIATION

Mrs. MOAKLER. Madam Chairwoman, Mr. McHugh, and other

members of the Personnel Subcommittee, thank you for the many
family-friendly provisions included in the Fiscal Year 2008 NDAA.
We are gratified that you have recognized the important role that
families play in supporting our servicemembers in all stages of deployment.
Excellent support programs exist. It is important to find out
which programs families are finding most effective and channel resources toward supporting those programs. The evaluation process
and report you require in the 2008 NDAA should help to accomplish that.
You also recognized the excellence of the yellow ribbon reintegration program by calling for this program to be implemented by the
National Guard in all states and territories. This strong reintegration process, taking the initiative to educate families along with the

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returning servicemember, acknowledging the challenges of reconnecting as a family, and providing information and tools to accomplish this is too important a task to ask the National Guard to
stretch already thin financial resources. We hope that this would
be funded.
As deployments continue, military families can be stressed to the
breaking point. We endorse the IAVAs assertion of the need for
greater access to mental health care and counseling for returning
servicemembers and families.
Military children, the treasure of many military families, have
shouldered the burden of sacrifice with great pride. We appreciate
this subcommittees requirement of a report from DOD on programs that touch military children and their caregivers and hope
the research can provide a basis for the most effective programs for
our children.
A fully funded, robust family readiness program is crucial to
military readiness. As deployments continue, families must know
there is a secure yet flexible set of support services across all components available to them to reinforce readiness and build resiliency.
While military child development centers have consistently been
ranked highest in national ratings, families still experience access
problems. Despite new centers and funding provided last year,
there is still a shortfall of over 30,000 spaces. Increased needs for
respite care for both the families of the deployed and families with
special needs also add new strains to the system. We ask the committee to remain committed to helping all military families access
quality childcare.
Education is important to military families. The education of
military children is a prime concern of their parents. The need for
DOD-provided supplemental funding for impact aid is increasing.
And we ask for increased supplemental funding, especially for
schools who find themselves with increased numbers of military
students.
The coalition appreciates the interest of the Administration and
Congress in expanding the eligibility of servicemembers to transfer
Montgomery G.I. bill education benefits to family members. Military spouses face unique employment challenges as they deal with
deployments and relocations. We appreciate the partnerships being
developed between DOD and the services with the Department of
Labor and employers. Extending military spouse preference to all
Federal agencies would expand employment opportunities for this
very mobile workforce.
The coalition is grateful for the implementation last fall of the
long-awaited
full
replacement
value
reimbursement.
Servicemembers still have concerns as they anticipate a move.
They can face insufficient housing capacity, both on and off the installation, over-crowded schools, and the shortage of other community support structures due to BRAC and re-basing.
We appreciate your continuing attention to the needs of the families of those who have made the greatest sacrifice, the survivors of
those who have died as a result of active duty service. The coalition
views the special survival allowance as a first step toward the repeal of the SBP/DIC offset. We would urge this subcommittee to ex-

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pand eligibility for this allowance to all Survivor Benefit Plan
(SBP)/Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) eligible survivors.
Family readiness is integral to servicemember readiness. The
cost of that readiness is part of the cost of war and the national
responsibility. We ask Congress to shoulder that responsibility as
servicemembers and their families shoulder theirs.
Thank you. And I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mrs. Moakler can be found in the Appendix on page 85.]
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
Colonel.
STATEMENT OF COL. STEVE STROBRIDGE (RET.), DIRECTOR,
GOVERNMENT RELATIONS, MILITARY OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, U.S. AIR FORCE

Colonel STROBRIDGE. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member McHugh, and members of the subcommittee. My portion of the
coalition testimony will address healthcare.
We fully support Mr. Todd Bowers comments on care for wounded warriors and their families. And we very much applaud the first
step actions that the subcommittee took last year. But much more
is needed.
For one, members and families who are forced from active duty
because of service-caused disabilities should retain active duty level
TRICARE coverage for three years. The new law does that only for
the servicemember, not for the family, and only when no V.A. care
is available. That is too limited and too vague for troops facing extended rehab after leaving active duty.
We allow three years active duty coverage for survivors when a
servicemember dies. We think the severely wounded and their families deserve no less.
We are also concerned that there is no central oversight to ensure that all departments and services implement best practices for
multiple ongoing TBI and PTSD projects. We urge including this
responsibility into the newly legislated DOD/VA inter-agency program office.
Finally, we support the disability retirement model in which
DOD accepts the VA assigned disability ratings. But we still need
to address inter-service differences on what conditions are unfitting
and which ones are pre-existing. But we do oppose doing away with
the DOD disability retirement system entirely, as some envision,
which we think would substantially reduce retirement benefits for
many wounded warriors.
On TRICARE fees, we dont support the large increases, as you
know, that are proposed by DOD and the task force. And we urge
you to restore the $1.2 billion budget cut. We think it is wrong that
the task force focused only on cost to the government with barely
a sentence on what military people earn for their career of sacrifice.
In 2001 the new Administrations officials praised TRICARE for
Life, but now act as if no one expected that providing health care
for retirees over 65 would be expensive. We cant see what changed

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10
during six years of war that makes the military community any
less deserving of that benefit.
The plan to raise drug co-pays 100 to 400 percent would put
them higher than most civilian plans. The Blue Cross Blue Shield
plan that Military Officers Association of America (MOAA), my organization, offers our civilian employees has lower co-pays for pharmacy across the board than what the task force proposes for the
military.
DOD would quadruple the retail generic co-payment from $3 to
$15, and that is higher than 87 percent of civilian plans charge.
Wal-Mart is offering generics to any civilian in America for $4.
There is something wrong there.
The coalition believes military benefits should be driven by
standards and principles, not by the budget. Just as we have statutory standards for most other major military compensation elements, we urge the subcommittee to put some standards in this
years defense bill using H.R. 579 and S. 604 as models. Fundamental among these are that military retirement and health
benefits are the primary offset for the extraordinary sacrifices inherent in a 20- to 30-year military career, that extended sacrifice
constitutes a very large in-kind prepayment of premiums far beyond what other Americans pay that dwarfs the cash payments
that we are so focused on.
Finally, that the percentage increase in military fees in any
given year shouldnt exceed the percentage growth in military compensation. For years the coalition has offered to partner with the
Defense Department on alternative ways to reduce government
costs without hurting beneficiaries. But the department refused
that offer.
Now, thanks to Dr. Kassels and General Granger, they are looking at some of our options. And we will be willing partners, if allowed.
One final itema recent Government Accountability Office
(GAO) report confirmed that Guard and Reserve members are overcharged for TRICARE Reserve Select (TRS) by about $50 for single
people and $175 a month for families. We urge the subcommittee
to cut those TRS fees and direct refunds to the people who have
clearly paid too much. We continue to believeand the Commission
on the Guard and Reserve agreedthat the government will save
money and reserve families will be better served by authorizing an
optional subsidy to continue their civilian family coverage when
they are mobilized just as we already do for DOD civilians.
That concludes my statement. And we thank you for your consideration.
[The prepared statement of Colonel Strobridge can be found in
the Appendix on page 133.]
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Johnson.
STATEMENT OF DAVID JOHNSON, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN
LOGISTICS ASSOCIATION

Mr. JOHNSON. Good afternoon, Madam Chair, and members of

the subcommittee. The American Logistics Association (ALA) is
most grateful to you for your continued strong leadership in pre-

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serving and improving the commissary exchange MWR benefits for
servicemembers, retirees, and their families. I ask that my written
statement be entered into the record in its entirety.
It is an honor to be here today as chairman of the American Logistics Association representing nearly 250 of Americas leading
manufacturers, nearly 60 brokers and distributors, service companies, media outlets, and more than 1,400 individual members who
are actively engaged in providing goods and services to the military
resale and MWR activities. I want to reaffirm ALAs strong commitment to maintaining the commissary and exchange benefit as
an integral part of the total non-pay compensation package for
servicemembers and their families.
Many of the issues I will address today will be similar to issues
raised in prior years. In virtually every instance, progress has been
made, but there is more to do.
Specifically, I will address the state of commissary surcharge dollars, Guard and Reserve outreach efforts, Armed Service Exchange
Regulations (ASER), exchange joint ventures, and finally, I will
provide some comments on some pending legislation.
Madam Chair, I am pleased to convey to this subcommittee a
huge well done on the issue of finding relief for limited commissary
surcharge dollars. For the past several years, the members of this
subcommittee have voiced concern in unison about the challenges
facing Defense Commissary Agency (DeCA) with the increased burdens being placed on the surcharge account by BRAC and re-stationing construction requirements.
Your leadership and persistence, along with the determination of
this association, elevated the issue to the Secretary of Defense. And
in a recent ruling by the DOD general counsel, the determination
was made that commissary construction projects that are not necessitated by BRAC or re-stationing cannot be paid out of surcharge, but must come from BRAC or Military Construction
(MILCON) funding.
As a result of DeCAs outstanding job managing the military
commissaries, shoppers continue to save an average of over 30 percent on groceries when compared to the retail grocery stores. Accordingly, the commissary benefit and savings have become increasingly more important to the National Guard and Reserve
members and their families.
In a recent initiative, DeCA and ALA partnered to provide close
to $100,000 in DeCA certifichecks to needy Guard and Reserve
families just prior to Christmas. In addition, DeCA has set out an
aggressive scheduled for increased outreach efforts to support the
Guard and Reserve. The longer term need to provide a more permanent solution to affording better access to the retail benefits for
the Guard and Reserve may require some out of the box thinking
and support from this subcommittee.
Our association actively supports and promotes programs that
enhance the quality of life for our military servicemembers, retirees, and their families. Exchanges are a key component of DODs
quality of life programs. Unfortunately, authorized patrons continue to be limited in their choice and selection of merchandise sold
in the exchanges.

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The armed service exchange regulation, ASER, delineates what
can or cannot be sold in exchanges. Madam Chair, it is ALAs position that shoppers should have a choice without restrictions on
merchandise sold in exchanges.
Elimination of the furniture restrictions would permit greater
availability of furniture, afford servicemembers the opportunity to
receive the best possible value, and therefore, provide a true noncompensation benefit with absolutely no burden on the taxpayers.
In addition, use of the military star card offers a lower interest rate
and payment terms, especially for deployed troops.
Finally, I would like to take a moment to address two legislative
initiatives that we are tracking. The first is H.R. 1974, the Federal
Employee Combat Zone Tax Parity Act. We support this initiative
to provide tax relief for service in a combat zone by civilian employees of the United States. As you are aware, there have been years
of tireless service by exchange associates to man field exchange operations under extremely dangerous conditions to support the quality of life of our deployed troops.
Next, we express our support for H.R. 4071, the Disabled Veterans Right to Commissaries and Space Available Travel Act. This
proposal would extend benefits to service-disabled veterans with a
rating of 30 percent or more and to their families.
The same arguments about over-crowding and cost will be raised
that were faced when full shopping privileges were being considered for the Guard and Reserve. It did not happen. The sky did not
fall.
In a recent interview with Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of
the Joint Chiefs, he laid out one of his key initiatives for 2008,
which was to take care of servicemen and women when in uniform
and afterwards. This initiative goes in that direction.
The nature of injuries today and the technology and treatments
has changed the nature of disabilities. We support his initiative.
Thank you, Madam Chair and members of this subcommittee for
providing industry the opportunity to present its views on these
critically important topics. More importantly, thank you for your
stewardship over these important benefits that are essential to our
military families quality of life. I will be happy to answer any
questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Johnson can be found in the Appendix on page 54.]
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Becker.
STATEMENT OF F. JED BECKER, VICE CHAIRMAN, ARMED
FORCES MARKETING COUNCIL

Mr. BECKER. Good afternoon, Madam Chairwoman and distinguished members of the subcommittee. My name is Jed Becker.
And I am a member of the Armed Forces Marketing Council
(AFMC). I am most appreciative for being given the opportunity to
be here today to offer comments concerning the military resale system and the vital role it plays in supporting our troops and their
families.
As referenced, AFMC is a non-profit business league founded in
1969. Member firms work on the behalf of the manufacturers who

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13
supply consumer products to military resale activities around the
world. Succinctly, the purpose of the council is to encourage the
worldwide availability of quality consumer products at the best
possible prices and value and to promote unity of effort in this endeavor through a cooperative working relationship among Congress, the military, and the supplier industry.
Member firms are small, privately-held businesses formed in response to the need for efficient, specialized services, marketing, and
merchandising. In order to limit my verbal statement, I have prepared a written statement and would ask that those comments are
entered into the record.
As backdrop, I would like to note that the military resale stands
out as a most successful system. In simple terms, it works well. It
is honest, efficient, and responsive. Taxpayers, legislators, and
leaders throughout government can share in the pride of this outstanding success story.
Madam Chairwoman, this committee brings a clear legacy of prudence in protecting the value of the resale benefit. It has protected
the system from unfounded reorganizations, while it has correctly
encouraged and supported the very competent resale operators
along their driven path in their process of continuous improvement.
In addition to the broad scope balance provided by your oversight,
this committee has been effective in recognizing and seizing those
opportunities at the margin that serve to maximize the value of the
benefit while minimizing the expense to taxpayers.
Looking forward, we would like to call your attention to a few
matters on which we seek your support. Second destination transportation fundingCongress has passed legislation that mandates
funding the cost of transporting American products to foreign-based
resale operations. Maintaining this commitment is of vital importance to the well-being of military families. Your vigilance in directing continuity in this program is requested.
Earlier in my comments I noted that this committee has effectively seized many favorable opportunities at the margin. The
AFMC requests your attention to two such opportunities that were
mentioned by my colleague here, Mr. Johnson.
First, we remind you that the antiquated ASER restrictions limit
the exchanges in terms of the merchandise they can sell. The conditions under which these restrictions were placed have changed
dramatically over time. We urge you to grant relief from these restrictions. Such relief would enhance the value of the exchange
benefit to all qualified shoppers and would do so at no expense.
Second, the AFMC believes you will find a high yield, highly
leveragable opportunity to support our disabled veterans in supporting H.R. 4071 that has been introduced by Congressman Filner. This legislation proposes to extend exchange and commissary
shopping benefits to veterans rated as 30 percent disabled or greater. We believe that affording this benefit would come at virtually
no cost to the government and would again accomplish a great deal
in taking care of those servicemembers who have made a great personal sacrifice in defense of our country.
In closing, I would like to note that the military resale industry
is fragile. Shortsighted plans disguised as innovation will continue
to threaten its comprehensive efficacy. Most easily overlooked in

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this beneficial evolution of military resale is the power of two
things: first, the intelligence and awareness of our servicemembers
and their ability to recognize a marginalized benefit; and second,
the risks we all would assume if we failed to recognize that America is deriving service from resale system employees that exceed
their costs.
With very, very few exceptions these are people of high order
serving those who defend our freedom. Measures that might break
their spirit of purpose would bring tragic loss to all of us. I welcome
your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Becker can be found in the Appendix on page 71.]
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. I want to thank you all very much for
staying within the time and around the time. And we appreciate
that.
Let me start, I think, with one of the difficult questions to ask.
And that isand I think you made a good attempt at trying to
prioritize. But we know that within all the initiatives that have
been brought forth and that have been brought forth for some
timebecause a lot of this is clearly not new. We have been trying
to expand on the benefits for some time.
But these programs really do require mandatory offsets in order
to be included in the defense authorization bill, whether it is
MGIB, reserve retirement, SBP, DIC, or concurrent receipt. You
know, all of them would require us to do that.
So given our limited ability to address mandatory increases, do
you feel comfortableare you in a position to say what the highest
priority would be, so that we have a better way of trying to look
at the limited funds that we are obviously going to have to work
with? And we dont expect there to be a consensus at the table, I
can assure you.
But some of you may have played this game that, you know,
where you have a list of things up on a wall and you put the green
sticker and the red sticker for themcan you put up your green
sticker? You know, what is it that you would pick first that you
think that we absolutely need to deal with? And we can start with
anybody who feels they would like to jump in.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Well, Madam Chairwoman, I think the
members of the subcommittee and the staff, I hope, will agree that
we do this every year. We realize that it is impossible for you to
do everything and that we do make a good faith effort to try to
prioritize and provide you and the staff some options to make
progress. It is, you are right, very difficult to pick one item and say
we want to do this at the exclusion of some other thing.
We all have associations that represent different segments of the
population. And, of course, each has their own priority. But I think
we have worked very hard to try to identify ways to make progress
on the survivor benefits issue, for example, ways to make progress
on the concurrent receipt issue. If we cant do the whole thing,
what is the first priority? And we try to establish those.
One of the important ones, I think, that kind of cuts across most
of the areas of the population this year, unfortunately, is the
TRICARE issue. And the mandatory aspect of that, we understand,

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is the pharmacy issue. And it is particularly bad when they propose egregious fee increases.
We realize the challenge that places on you. That affects pretty
much everybody. It affects active duty families, many of whom are
on TRICARE Standard. It affects the Guard and Reserve families,
many of whom dont live near a military facility and have to go
down and get their medications. And when you are talking about
$15 for generic and $25 for brand name and $45 for off-brand and
you are talking about a family that may have four or five prescriptions, that adds up to a lot of money over the years.
So if I personally had to pick one item, I would say that is important. But I would stress that we really want to work very hard
with the subcommittee to find ways to identify other progress.
The omission of the active duty death survivors from the SBP/
DIC was particularly painful. I think we dont like to see people
who are in that situation feel like they have been, you know, left
that somebody is telling them they dont deserve any relief, even
as small as that was.
Mrs. DAVIS. Okay. So I wanted to follow up with you because I
think that was a relatively small benefit. And some people would
say it was almost offensive actually.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Yes.
Mrs. DAVIS. And so, but at least addressing it in a small way,
you think, is helpful.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. We understand from dealing with the subcommittee thatwe do realize that that is a small step, that it is
the first step. And we believe that in good faith. We know you are
trying to do it.
Mrs. DAVIS. Okay. Thank you.
I want to let anybody else jump in. I am going to limit myself
to the five minutes, and then we are going to go to other members.
And we will come back to a number of other ones.
Yes, Mr. Barnes.
Mr. BARNES. Madam Chairwoman, I just wanted to reference
Steves comments here about in trying to determine the priorities.
It is very important with our association, I think as the coalition
as a whole, to consider the number of personnel affected.
And the health care funding issue, both with regard to the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs affects everyone. It affects many of the issues that have been addressed here. And that is first and foremost on our list. And evaluating these from that perspective is very important.
Mrs. DAVIS. Anybody, real quickly? I said I was going to limit
myself to five minutes, but perhaps would you like to follow up
with that, Mr. McHugh, as part of yourcan you do this in 30 seconds? Or I will come back to you.
Mrs. MOAKLER. I think an issue that is very important to active
duty and Guard and Reserve families, especially those of the deployed, is access to quality childcare.
Mrs. DAVIS. Okay.
Mrs. MOAKLER. That is extremely important.
Mrs. DAVIS. Okay, thank you.
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, Madam Chair. The issue that I see as paramount is continued full support of the commissary funding. It is

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the same issue that we address every year. But if you look at the
value of that benefit and the return on investment for the expenditures, it is money well-spent. And I believe that we would ask you
to consider that
Mrs. DAVIS. Okay, great.
Mr. McHugh, pick up?
Mr. MCHUGH. Well, Jed, you dont have any thoughts on this?
Mr. BECKER. I do, so I appreciate your carrying this out. I was
afraid you werent going to. Actually, relative to some of the issues
that are raised by some of the other panelists, we have the good
fortune that you have some oversight involving some assets that,
I believe, are immediately leveragable to yield meaningful benefit
to this important population.
And when I say that, I mean the existing commissary and exchange facilities that are fully capitalized. They are there. They are
accessible to many of these potential beneficiaries. And I will have
to return to the two notes that I made in my opening statements.
One is to revisit the ASER restrictions. It is simply take an asset
and use it in a sub-optimal way. Without the ASER restrictions,
the benefit would be enhanced dramatically without any cost.
The other item was the possibility of expanding these benefits to
those who are disabled when defending the country who, again, at
no incremental cost to the government or an extremely, extremely
low cost, negligible, could enjoy those benefits.
Mr. MCHUGH. Okay. Then let me follow up on your two comments, Jed. Both you and Mr. Johnson may want to address this.
ASER is something that when I had a chance to serve as chair
of this subcommittee I supported expanding or narrowing the restrictions, depending on your perspective. The subcommittee under
Dr. Snyder has done that as well. And we have had some challenges, shall we say, from, as we are told to call them, the other
body.
I am curious. Have you had any opportunity to talk to representatives of the other house and what is your perspective on them?
Because the fact of the matter is while there may not be a cost to
taxpayers, per say, as I know you are aware, there are those in the
private business communities surrounding bases that are concerned about these expansions. But through all of thatI will
speak for myselfI have certainly been supportive.
But it gets a little frustrating when we act on occasions and they
dont. Have you had a chance to talk to them? I will rephrase the
question.
Mr. BECKER. Yes. No, we have. And, in fact, I think in some instances we had thought we had won the support we were seeking.
And I would only note that we appreciate your continuing support
and your patience while we attempt to work on the other side.
My sense is that in some instances these items have been lost
among the many items on their agendas. And I dont really have
the sense that we have much opposition not as much as we have
a lack of follow up. But we will continue to pursue it and appreciate your support.
Mr. MCHUGH. David, I dont know if you want to add to that or
not.
Mr. JOHNSON. No, I dont. I concur completely.

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Mr. MCHUGH. The proposal to extend exchange and commissary
benefits to non-retirees, 30 percent disabled has been addressed in
some of the military trade publications and elsewhere, there are
those who are at least concerned that this kind of expansion would
serve to erode the benefit to those who are receiving it currently.
I am not in any way validating that argument or unvalidating it.
I am curious how you would respond to those who hold that concern. And they hold it legitimately. I dont think there is any reason to denigrate their perspective necessarily. But what would you
tell them?
Mr. JOHNSON. What I would say, Congressman, is the same arguments came up when they argued against giving full commissary
shopping privileges to reservists several years ago. They thought
that it denigrates the benefit of the active duty. And I strongly disagree.
As a reservist myself, I know what a benefit it is for the troops
under my command that they have access to that benefit. And I
think for our veterans who are 30 percent disabled or more I think
that speaks volumes about what we are willing to do for them. And
as Mr. Becker explained, it is virtually no cost at all to the commissary system to absorb those shoppers.
Mr. MCHUGH. Just curiositythe 30 percent figureis that just
associated with the current disability compensation level? Is that
where the 30 percent came from? Why 30 percent? Why not 25?
Why not 40? Why not?
Mr. JOHNSON. I think we just came out in support of Congressman Filners bill, which was the 30 percent.
Mr. MCHUGH. Okay. All right, all right.
I dont know if anyone on The Military Coalition side wants to
be heard on this or not.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Yes, sir, I would. And this is one where we
do have a difference of opinion with our friends in ALA. And we
strongly supported extension of privileges to the Guard and Reserve, so that is not our concern.
Some people, I think, think of this as a wounded warrior issue.
The reality is if you are 30 percent disabled in service, you are
going to be retired. As a retiree, you will have an I.D. card. You
will be entitled to commissary and exchange privileges.
The issue that we are talking about, to me, is primarily people
who separate from the service, in many cases serve a civilian career, incur a disability later in life. Those folks, to us, fully deserve
their veterans compensation, their disability compensation, their
veterans benefits. But that is not the same as serving a career,
which is what we see the commissary as part and parcel of the
military benefit that DOD provides as an employer to its current
employees and its career employees.
And to us that is why we have DOD separate systems from VA.
It is a career compensation benefit. If you are disabled immediately, you get it. If you incur it later in life, you are a VA beneficiary, but you are not entitled to the DOD benefits. We fought the
commissary subsidy so many times and had to make that argument to justify it it is difficult, I think, to back it away when that
argument is not being made because we know it will be in the future.

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Mr. MCHUGH. I thank you.
Madam Chair, I see the red light. I appreciate your patience. If
there is another round, I would be happy to ask some more questions.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Well, I think that is an important question. And, you know, we dont necessarily want to put people on the
spot, but we understand that there is a real difference of opinion
in that and appreciate that we might come back to that issue.
Ms. Boyda.
Mrs. BOYDA. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. This is extremely helpful. For those of us who are freshmen, it is nice to actually kind of participate in this instead of being in this fog where
we were last year. So it is wonderful.
Mr. Bowers, I would like to ask you some questions just on when
you were talking aboutfirst of all, thank you very much for your
service and for going over and being deployed twice. I didnt hear
an answer from you when you saidwhat wasdid I hear an answer what your number one priority would be? I didnt.
Mr. BOWERS. Well, overall, our number one priority, what we are
going to be working on this yearand then we understand the
funding concerns that come along with itis a more revamped and
up to date Montgomery G.I. bill. The reason being is thatand G.I.
bill is no longer what it once was. And we see the G.I. bill as one
of the most effective reintegration tools for veterans of this generation.
Our second priority that we really are pushing on and one that
I think may be more appropriate today is the mandatory confidential counseling for veterans before and after their deployment within 90 days once they return from combat. This requires an initial
investment. But we see this in the long term essentially as a cost
savings plan.
The issues that we arent addressing now when veterans return
from combat are eventually going to come back and bite us in the
rear end about 20 years from now when they have some serious
difficulties reintegrating into society, which as we all have learned,
is going to come with a higher price tag. We see it as an initial investment and a way to sort of stop these things beforehand. And
to be very honest, it cuts out the element of the ten percent.
That is a big elephant in the room right now. But there is always
going to be those individuals that may or may not be taking advantage of the system. By requiring mandatory pre and post-deployment screening, you are setting a baseline and having something
to follow through with. So you know exactly how combat has affected them, both mentally and physically to some extent.
Mrs. BOYDA. Thank you very much. In your testimony you had
said that multiple tours and inadequate time at home and between
deployments increased rates of combat stress at 50 percent. Where
do you have those numbers?
Mr. BOWERS. Well, I am going to defer to one of our many reports
that we just released a few days ago. We have annotated in there
where we did get those numbers. And I know that some of the resources that we have had have the numbers come out of the Institute of Medicine and also a few numbers from the Rand Corporation that have been extremely beneficial. But I would appreciate

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the opportunity to be able to follow up and provide those numbers
to you in-depth with one of our reports.
Mrs. BOYDA. I would appreciate that
And out of the testimony someone was going to be working with
the Advertising Council. Who was that? That was you.
Mr. BOWERS. Yes.
Mrs. BOYDA. I represent Topeka, Kansas, which actually in the
district there is Fort Riley, Fort Leavenworth, head of the National
Guard for Kansas. But I live in Topeka. There is a VA hospital that
kind of was the Mayo Clinic of mental health back in the 1950s.
The Menninger Clinic actually came from that.
And so, we work in issues of PTSD and traumatic brain injury,
just the whole mental health issue quite a bit. And obviously we
are seeing that it is getting very, very difficult to keep and to have
trained professionals on. Are you planning to do any kind of Ad
Council, again, of asking people to step up and serve their country
by serving our veterans?
Mr. BOWERS. Yes, we are. I think what we are doing is we are
deferring to the experts in regards to the advertising aspect. And
we have been very fortunate to have Batten, Barton, Durstine &
Osborn (BBDO) Corporation take us on pro bono to come up with
these ads and how it is going to work.
It is a three-year campaign. We begin our focus groups actually
next week. And we will be doing a tremendous amount of those
throughout the country. And I believe one of the locations include
Kansas, to know what people will be most receptive from.
During the World Series we ran two ads to see if this program
was going to be effective. And with a partnership with Major
League Baseball, ourselves, and the Ad Council we set up a website
called welcomebackveterans.org.
The advertisement was very effective with Tom Hanks doing the
voiceover saying, If you, the general American public, even if you
have not been touched by the veterans who have served in this
war, want to help, here is where you can go to. And we had a tremendous impact.
And we are hoping to be able to see that in our stigma reduction
campaigns. Even the name, post traumatic stress disorder leads
you to a disorder as a fault.
I always convey to my Marinesand I did this just last weekendthat when you come home from a combat, if you have been
impacted by something, it doesnt make you weaker. It makes you
stronger.
You harness those things that you deal with, and it makes you
a better Marine or soldier, airman or sailor. You are able to see
what you have had and be able to build on that.
The Marine Corps always says pain is weakness leaving the
body. Well, that shouldnt just be limited to physical aspects. It
should also be mental issues.
Mrs. BOYDA. I hope you would let us know in this committee if
there is anything that we can do to help further that cause. And
on behalf of Staff Sergeant Boyda, who is now 63 years old, Semper
Fi.
Mr. BOWERS. Thank you.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.

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Dr. Snyder.
Dr. SNYDER. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Mrs. Moakler, was it you that mentioned the beyond the yellow
ribbon campaign? I think it was.
Mrs. MOAKLER. Yes.
Dr. SNYDER. And the funding of it. And I dont know if you saw
yesterday when Secretary Gates testified with Admiral Mullen before the House Armed Services Committee, the full committee. I
asked him about it, and then Representative Kline brought it up
also about the funding for it. And, as you know, we authorized it
in the National Guard bill, but it hasnt seen any money yet for it.
I am optimistic that we will see that funding come available
through the supplemental process over the next few months. But
we all need to follow that along closely. I think the Pentagon is
committed to seeing that it is funded and understands the value
of it.
And one of Secretary Gates staff members grabbed me during a
break in the hearing. And he had all the numbers down. He knew
what kind of money they were looking for. And it is just that we
have got to see the supplemental process flow.
So I am optimistic that will happen. But it is something that we
all together need to follow.
Mrs. MOAKLER. It is a great program. It was so successful in
Minnesota. And we certainly would like to see that enacted in all
the other states and territories to help those families.
Dr. SNYDER. Yes. Representative Kline was a strong advocate of
that and is on this subcommittee also.
I wanted to spend some further time on this G.I. bill issue. And
I just came from Secretary Peakes, former lieutenant general, now
Secretary of Veterans AffairsPeakehis first budget hearing before the Veterans Affairs Committee. And in his opening statement,
Chairman Filner talked about one of his goals for this session of
Congress is to seeI forget how he explains it, but a G.I. bill for,
you know, this era. He wants to really modernize the bill.
And we are seeing a lot of proposals out there. Senator Webb
probably has the most far-reaching, which I think would be great,
which goes back to the days of right after World War II. I think
Representative Bobby Scott has the mirror bill on this side.
Several of you have mentioned different ideas for the G.I. bill.
My concern I have about this is we are getting back to maybe
where we were a few years. We are all going to come up with great
ideas.
The problem we are going to have is the one that we have in the
jurisdiction reserve component, active component. One is coming
out of the Veterans Affairs Department and that committee, and
one is coming out of the Pentagon and this committee. And the two
bodies have different ideas.
The Congress is in agreement about it. But the Pentagon is very
clear. They see the reserve component G.I. bill as being a management issue. They dont see it as being a reintegration issue.
And I think you can make a very strong argument that even for
a reserve component member who comes back and stays in the reserve, if they have been in a combat situation for 12 or 15 months,
it clearly is a reintegration issue. I also think it is an issue of in-

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vestment in people. People deserve it, particularly if the active
component veterans are getting it.
And so, I have this fear thatyou know, the last defense bill
that was just signed by the President a few weeks ago we made
progress on this reserve component issue, but nearly as much as
we ought to. And we havent dealt with the disparity in benefits,
the actual amounts. We havent dealt about the disparity between
what the G.I. bill pays versus what cost of a four-year education
is. We havent dealt with the $1,200 issue.
I mean, there are a lot of issues we havent dealt with. I think
we are kind of getting in a situation now where we are all coming
up with these ideas. The bottom line is, I think, that if we dont
deal with this conflict in jurisdiction between the Pentagon and the
Department of Veterans Affairs, none of these things are going to
go very far.
And so, it comes back to this idea of the bill that the staff here
worked on a lot. And it is very complicated trying to merge these
things together. Because until it gets under one jurisdiction I think
we will continue to hear from people in the Pentagon it is a management tool, our reenlistment is good for reserve component, we
dont need to change that benefit.
And some of you may know from the past with Secretary
Dominguez, who is a very nice guy, but, I mean, he actuallyI
kind of backed him into a corner and said, if we can keepwere
you there, Colonel Strobridge, when I said, Well, if we reduced it
by 50 percent and reenlistment rates stayed the same, you are
okay with that? If we reduced it by 80 percent?
I mean, he had to acknowledge yes, he was, because as a management tool, if the reenlistment rates for reserve component are
the same, it means you dont have to change the G.I. bill. And I
think that misses the point of the G.I. bill.
So I have rambled on too much with this. But my basic question
is do you all have concerns that we now are getting a lot of ideas
about the G.I. bill but if we dont deal with this issue of jurisdiction
that the Pentagon and the Department of Veterans Affairs being
separated we are not going to make much progress in the G.I. bill.
Again, Colonel Strobridge, if you dont mind
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Yes, sir. As I know you know, we strongly
supported that initiative last year.
Dr. SNYDER. Yes.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. We agree with you that is a fundamental
underpinning. Very frankly, we thought that is what we were going
to get last year rather thanwe were hoping for the reserve transition, but we were kind of surprised to get the reserve transition
and not the consolidation.
We agree with you that that is a key issue. From our standpoint,
there are so many initiatives out there, we would agree with almost any of them. The issue is what can be done.
You know, we are sort of in the same boat we were when you
asked us to prioritize things. We will take just about anything that
is progress because there are so many problems.
I cant think of too many bills out there that we wouldnt support. And whatever works out to be the lowest common denomina-

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22
tor that Congress will support, you will find our enthusiastic support for.
Dr. SNYDER. My time is up, and maybe we can go back around.
I will go at this again.
But it is going to be hard for us to have a Senator Webb-type
bill or a comprehensive donor-type bill without bringing this together because we could do a Senator Webb bill, but I bet it would
not include reserve component, the way the jurisdiction currently
is.
In the next round I will pursue this further so more of you can
make comments.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Madam Chair, would you indulge me for 15
seconds to fix a grievous omission in a previous answer?
Mrs. DAVIS. Sure.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. My conscience is really bothering me. You
talked about prioritizing. One of the really important things is the
Guard and Reserve retirement system where we did it prospectively and we didnt give credit for those years of repeated tours in
Iraq that have already been served. That is a huge priority.
Mrs. DAVIS. Great, thank you.
Ms. Shea-Porter.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Thank you.
I was very interested, Mrs. Moakler, when you started naming
daycare as the top priority for you. Could you expand on that a little bit and tell us exactly why that came first with all the other
issues that we have heard about?
Mrs. MOAKLER. I think as families continue to live through deployments, the need for respite care is growing. And that is a segment that we really havent addressed in childcare before. Because
when you are a single parent with a deployed servicemember, you
need a break. You need a break.
And there is really not enough designated drop-in care for folks
at most military child development centers. But there is a real
need to leave the kids for a day or so and have that open. And a
lot of installations are opening up their child development centers
for respite care.
We also have the added need for the parents of children with
special needs where they need respite care as well. And what agencies are they going to look for? They are going to look for that excellent child development center on the installation to be available
to them as well as one of their benefits. So that is why we are refocusing a little bit this year on the basics, on those basic benefits
that we want for military families in peacetime and in war.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Okay, thank you. And could you tell us a little
bit about the children who are at the daycares right now, the
changes and what you see is necessary for the daycares to treat the
special conditions that the children are experiencing?
Mrs. MOAKLER. I think we are looking forward to some of the research that is going to be done on the affects of deployment on children. We are doing some of that within the National Military Family Association. We have our Operation Purple Camp. And we are
surveying children and parents as to how the children are dealing
with deployment and the war and how parents perceive children
dealing with deployment and the war.

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We are also working with the folks who look at the very young
children, from zero to three, who previously people might not have
considered how they were reacting to the absence of a parent for
a great amount of time, reacting to the stress that the single parent is going through. But more and more research is being done
into that. And we are hoping that as they come out with an outcome that this will be able to be offered to the caregivers of the
young children.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. And Congressman Jones tells the storyand
it just keeps sticking in my mindabout going to read to some children at a military facility. And one of the children saying to him
my daddy is not dead yet.
And I am wondering, you know, obviously this is having an impact on these children and if they are able to take care of them
through the daycare centers, if there is special training, if there is
money available to train the people who are working with these
children every day. And those kids have the same kind of anxiety
that Congressman Jones talked about seeing.
Mrs. MOAKLER. And we are educating these young parents, too.
I know we have new parent programs with the military. But in our
testimony we spotlighted one young man, and he happens to be the
son of one of our staff members. His dad was deployed for six
months, and they were getting ready to go to the airport to pick
him up.
And he seemed very reluctant to go with his mom to the airport.
And his mom couldnt understand what the problem was. And part
of the problem was that he wanted to know will daddy still like me.
And, of course, his mother was just floored that she hadnt
stopped to consider what his feelings might be, what his worries
might be with his father coming back. So just making parents
aware to ask the right questions and to kind of anticipate the reactions of their children to the deployment is very important.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Thank you. My time is expired.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you. It is my time for questions,
so I will go ahead and do that, and we will have another round as
well.
I believe it was yesterday Admiral Mullen mentioned or said in
the middle of testimony over on the Senate side when asked about
the serviceshe said the services are not broken, but they are
breakable. I am wondering if you were to say to him, you know,
this is what you should look for, this is where the indications might
be, particularly as it relates to families and those coming back,
what would you tell him, what maybe in parlance metrics? What
would you want him to be looking at that you think would be an
indication of where we are?
Do you want to begin?
Mrs. MOAKLER. I think that we want to make sure that the families have the tools to deal with the deployments, that they have access to counseling when they do run up against a brick wall, when
they cant handle the 15-month deployments any more. We also
want when the servicemembers do come back, as part of their reintegration process, that they are given time to come together
again as a family because they need that time in order to sustain
them when the deployments come again.

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And so, giving lip service to two weeks off or a limited amount
of time when the servicemember comes back to be with their families and then it is right off again into training or, you know, dont
take too much leave. Even though you might have that 30 days,
you know, dont take too much leave because we need to get right
back into the saddle and get going again. Families need time to rebuild, they really do.
Mrs. DAVIS. Anybody else?
Mr. BARNES. Excuse me. Madam Chairwoman, I just want to reference the importance of adequacy of end strength. And the workload continues despite many of the draw-downs and reductions in
personnel. And I know from personal interaction and information
I have received one on one that in many cases, particularly with
regard to the Navy, due to shortages of certain job specialties and
what have you, exacerbated perhaps by ratings, consolidations, and
what have you, that senior enlisted personnel bear a growing responsibility to fulfill the jobs and the requirements of their subordinates because of vacancies in their company, their division or what
have you.
So the adequacy of end strength is very, very important. I know
with regard to the Navy that individual augmentees continue from
thefor support of the war effort. Those individual billets are
taken out of hide at the command activity level. And the work goes
on. So that, in and of itself, is an example of stress on personnel
and the importance of the adequacy of end strengths.
Just a final aspect, as you all knowgrowing career personnel
to serve in key positions because of their technical skills is very,
very important. And when we are downsizing and requiring those
personnel to depart from the service, that has a significant impact.
But I reiterate that the scope of work continues despite decreased
personnel.
Mr. BOWERS. If I could just draw in on sort of a personal aspect
where my unit is preparing to go on our fourth deployment, we fulfill a very important role within the Marine Corps. And that is civil
military operations. We are a civil affairs unit.
When these conflicts started, I think that there was a difficulty
in understanding the end strength of how many people we would
need to fill these civil military operation roles. So I have sort of
made up my own phrase for this. But I refer to it as interhumantation, where we are seeing other military occupational specialties fulfilling other military occupational specialties where there
may be gaps.
For my specific instance, the Marine Corps is utilizing our unit
to fill civil military operation gaps. This may be effective, but it is
a very slow process. It takes a long time to get someone who has
spent their entire career known as Death from Above to start reintegrating and working with civilians on a battlefield. It is a possibility, but it is very difficult. And that is why looking at the overall
scope of what jobs are needed for a coin or counter-insurgency operation is going to be most effective.
We discussed a lot of this, too, and I draw back to another one
of our reports appropriately titled, A Breaking Military, that I
would be happy to share with you today where we look at these
number factors. We look at where the end strengths will be and the

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impact that lengthy deployments will have on individuals and,
again, their families.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. It really
departs a little bit from some of the specifics here, but we have
such a great group of witnesses, and I wanted you to be able to
comment.
Mr. McHugh, do you want to go on, and I will come back and
do a few other questions?
Mr. MCHUGH. Mr. Becker, in your commentsI may miss a word
or two of the quote here, but I think I got it pretty quickly. You
summed up and said we should be aware of what you called shortsighted initiatives disguised by innovation. Do you recall that?
Mr. BECKER. I do.
Mr. MCHUGH. Whatever do you mean?
Mr. BECKER. In my several years in this industry, sir, I have had
the opportunity to witness what were some very creative efforts to
alter the benefit. And in some instances they have included initiatives to alter the composition of the commissary benefit by, for example, increasing the surcharge to effectively offset the costs of the
commissary to an increased extent on the backs of the patrons.
And I think I understand the ingenuity behind it. But I would
caution that the consumers at the other end of that equation would
very quickly figure out what had happened and that its creativity
would be overwhelmed by its failures.
I think likewise there have been efforts to consolidate exchanges
in a forced manner with a belief that what is bigger is better. And
I am not sure that in my commercial experience there is evidence
of that. And I know for certain it is back to the people factor that
I noted in my last comments. A lot of the folks who are working
in this channel of commerce separate from being a delivery system
are people who have an affinity for the community they are serving.
And an enterprise made up of people who are committed to the
end users can lose the spirit that they bring to work every day if
they are forced into a machine designed by someone elsewhere.
And so, in those two instances I think were raised as ideas with
all good intent, but without experience close at hand to the business itself.
Mr. MCHUGH. Thank you.
Mr. Johnson, you used the phrase out-of-the-box thinking. You
encouraged us to use that. Do you have any out-of-the-box thoughts
for us, suggestions?
Mr. JOHNSON. I do. With regards to the commissary benefit and
getting greater outreach to Guard and Reserve, greater use of the
Internet, some off-site caselot sales to Guard and Reserve units,
maybe even mobile-type stores in an armory-type unit, to reach out
to those Guard and Reserve families who are not necessarily close
to a military base.
Mr. MCHUGH. Thank you. I have got a few moments here, so I
am just trying to remember. I think it was Mr. Bowers. In your
statistics in your presentation, your written presentation, you
talked about 20 percent of the troops in Iraq identify as going to
seek a divorce. Did I hear that correctly?
Mr. BOWERS. Yes.

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Mr. MCHUGH. And I truly dont know, and I am just curious. Do
you know what the rate is for non-deployed troops that will seek
divorce? Or is that not the kind of thing we ask people? I dont
know.
Mr. BOWERS. For non-deployed troops, I know that the rate is
higher than the national average. But in no way, shape or form is
it anywhere near that amount.
Mr. MCHUGH. So if you are deployed, that 20 percent figure is
higher than it would be if you were not?
Mr. BOWERS. Yes. And I have also found that with multiple deployments this is having an increasing impact whereas the percentage rate goes up per deployment.
Mr. MCHUGH. Right. But would it be possible to get some data
on that, if you have a chance?
Mr. BOWERS. I would be more than happy to.
Mr. MCHUGH. Great.
Mr. BOWERS. Again, for the third time, I am going to fall back
on one of ourlittle reports
Mr. MCHUGH. That is fine. That is fine. If that is in there, that
is great.
Mr. BOWERS. Yes, sir.
Mr. MCHUGH. And let me ask the question about another reference. And you may choose to give the same answer, and that is
fine as well.
You talked about in the mental health area there are presently
19 percent of returning troops self-identify as having a mental
health problem. And yet in the study you notedwithin the year
35 percent actually seek mental health care.
Did that study, do you knowand if you dont, maybe you could
find, was 35 percent totally the result of the deployment? In other
words, it is certainly possible for someone to come back, not have
a mental health problem and a year later have a mental health
problem that had absolutely nothing to do. I mean, that happens
in the Congress all the time with going away. So is that 35 percent
deployment-related, or is it a percentage?
Mr. BOWERS. Yes, those numbers are actually derived from a
GAO study that was done on the effectiveness of the PDHA and
the PDHRA.
Mr. MCHUGH. Okay.
Mr. BOWERS. So the only individuals that were incorporated in
those numbers were individuals who actually filled out the PDHA
and the PDHRA.
Mr. MCHUGH. No, I understand that. I apologize for not making
myself clear. Within a year 35 percent then say I have a mental
health problem, I need care. I am curious are all of those 35 percent then seeking mental health care and counseling because of the
deployment? A lot of things can cause you to seek mental health
care other than rooted in the deployment.
Mr. BOWERS. Yes, and I believe I can find that out for you most
definitely.
Mr. MCHUGH. Okay, great.
Mr. BOWERS. But I would say that those numbers are increased
greatly by the sheer impact that combat deployment makes on
Mr. MCHUGH. I have no doubt.

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Mr. BOWERS. Yes.
Mr. MCHUGH. I am just curious. Because as we pursue this, it
is going to come up, so it would be better to have the answer before.
Mr. BOWERS. Definitely.
Mr. MCHUGH. That is all I am saying. I have no doubt about
that. I am not challenging you at all. I am just curious how the
data breaks out.
Mr. BOWERS. Yes. And I would be more than happy towe have
been punching numbers until midnight the past few days. So
Mr. MCHUGH. Okay? Terrific. Thank you. Believe me, I understand. Thank you very much.
And thank you all.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
Ms. Boyda.
Mrs. BOYDA. Yes, actually I would like to just make a few comments, one I should have said earlier. But I just came off the floor,
and Representative Edwards and I had offered an amendment that,
I think, will be passed. It says in-state tuition for all of our active
duty, no matter if you get moved or whatever. Once you start, you
have got in-state tuition.
So I just thought you might want to be letting your members
know that we expect that to be passing whenever we get back here.
We will vote on that, and that should be good to go.
And then, Kathy, I would just like to congratulate you on the
Purple Camps and how it just keeps on moving up and they are
doing more and more. Some longitudinal data and really looking at,
not only what is going on with our families, but what is actually
impacting our families adversely and positively and collecting that
data in a very, you know, rigorous manner. So it is exciting.
And I hope everybody is as supportive as they can be for all the
money that goes into it. And you guys have pulled it off. So thank
you very much.
Mrs. MOAKLER. Thank you.
Mrs. BOYDA. I would like to go back just to the issue of what we
were kind of talking about a little bit earlier, too. And that is the
one to one deployments that we have been keeping on talking
about. And it sounds as if the one to one deployments everybody
says gee, that is a really good idea. I hope we can get there soon.
And there isnt a lot of clarity yet about what soon means. But,
you know, would you all weigh in on what you would recommend
to Congress, to the DOD, to the Secretary of Defense? If we dont
get one to one deployments any time, you know, within the next
few months, what does that mean?
Colonel STROBRIDGE. That is a hard question. Maybe I will try.
Mrs. BOYDA. Thank you.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. I think the answer is that the committee is
already trying as fast as you can. End strength increasesthat is
the key thing. We realize there is limitations on the possible. We
were asking before what are the indications of problems. To me,
you know, we are becoming deaf from alarm bells and warning sirens, it seems like.

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You know, when we have the Department of Defense saying if
you were meeting our retention and recruiting goalsI am saying,
at what cost. Look at the bonuses that we have to give to people
to get them to stay. Look at what is happening to the families that
we all know we kind of get, you know, deluded by the possible, I
guess, you know.
I dont think anybody at this table would say one to one is what
we want for the force for the long term or even necessarily one to
three. The first time we heard the Army talk about one to three
about five or six years ago, most of us looked around the room and
said, Good grief, that is way more than we ever had. You know,
one to three would cause huge retention problems.
And I think we are amazed that even with the bonuses retention
is as good as it is today. And I think that tells you probably what
Todd will tell you, that people are going to save their buddies because they know somebody else is going to have to go if they dont.
You know the answer. You are trying to do it as much as you
can. We all feel the same pain, I think.
Mrs. BOYDA. Are you part of that voice then again, saying this
needs to be done sooner than later?
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Absolutely. The biggest thing that we are
concerned about, very frankly, for the long run is people saying,
Gee, if we manage to draw down the forces in Iraq, maybe we
wont have to plus up the Army.
But to us, we need to plus up the Army no matter what. The lesson that we learned from this one is that we didnt have enough
troops to fight a major war. You never know when a major war is
coming. We need to be better prepared for the next one than we
were for this one.
Mrs. BOYDA. Thank you.
Todd, did you have something?
Mr. BOWERS. I would just agree with that. When I mentioned to
my mother that I might be going back for my third tour and she
was choking me, it was hard for me to convey to her that the reason being is that I am going because my Marines are going. And
that is the final issue. If they go, I go. There is no questions asked.
And it is going to be an honor to go back for a third time. But
I think that with these increased numbers that we all have sort of
been in agreement on here, you know, it is going to make a stronger fighting force and give us more time to train, re-up, and be
ready for the next fight.
Mrs. BOYDA. When I am out in my communities and questions
like this or comments like this come up, I try very much to say that
many of our families are doing just fine. You know, that no matter
how many times they have been deployed, they are going to go
back out there and do what it takes. And they are doing just fine.
And many of them arent. But I try to make sure that I differentiate that a lot of families out there that dont want to be brought
into this conversationeverything is fine and they will do whatever it takes for however long it takes. And many of them arent.
So this is like most things. It is a mixed bag. You need to be sensitive to situations. But again, thank you for your answers.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
And, Ms. Shea-Porter.

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I am sorry. Dr. Snyder?
Dr. SNYDER. Thank you.
Mrs. Moakler, I appreciate your attention today to children of
our military families. A couple of weeks ago a family member returned from his second tour to Iraq. His Air Force tour was a fourmonth tour. It was the second time he went. Both times he was
gone his wife has been pregnant.
So this time when he returned, we were all out at the airport
with balloons and signs. And his little toddler was out there. I
think he is four years old, although I am embarrassed I cant remember.
But, you know, when you see people come off the plane and there
is the husband and the wife hugging and the congratulations and
all, that moment when the little boy went over to be with his
daddy, I almost felt like that was a private moment that it was so
poignant. You know, that I felt like I didnt mind watching him
kiss his wife.
But I felt like that moment with the little boy was just so private
and so important that it really brought home to me how important
those relationships are and how important they are to families.
And anyway, I appreciate it. That is just a long way of saying I
appreciate your attention to children.
I want to go back to this issue of the G.I. bill and, Mr. Bowers,
maybe give you a chance and anyone else that wants to comment.
I have got questions I am saving for this end of the table, too. But,
Mr. Bowers, if you want to comment on the issue of the G.I. bill
and this jurisdiction or anything else that you want to talk about.
Because you mentioned that in your discussions also.
Mr. BOWERS. As I mentioned before, the G.I. bill is something
that we are going to be really focusing on this year. It is one of our
top priorities. I can tell you that probably about 80 percent of our
membership that we have been talking to has a tremendously difficult time with getting through college. I relate that to the amount
of deployments that individuals are using.
And we do stand bywe would love to see a picture perfect
Montgomery G.I. bill similar to S.22, Senator Webbs Montgomery
G.I. bill for the 21st Century. And I attribute that to a partnership
that we had with the VFW where we took Iraq and Afghanistan
veteran members and also VFW members who had served in the
Vietnam War and met with different offices and said, I served
three tours, a cumulative of 3.5 years active duty next to the Vietnam veteran who served roughly one year.
And then we compared how much each of us pays by the numbers for college. And the varying differences were incredible. And
so, we do stand by that we would love to see it updated to at least
what it once was to be more efficient.
Dr. SNYDER. The challenge you are going to have is your membership is both active component and reserve component member.
Correct?
Mr. BOWERS. Exactly.
Dr. SNYDER. And I think the challenge that you are going to have
is what are you going to do when either on the veterans side we
are able to deal with the active component veterans and raise that
G.I. bill benefitand if we are able to do that, I think the great

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likelihood is it will be difficult for the reserve component benefit to
follow through this committee because we already have budget
issues with the guard to the present budget proposal and how we
fund things or to place catch-up in reserve component. Some of us
would think that ought to be the first step.
And so, it just seems like this issue of the jurisdiction is going
toI mean, I applaud the laudatory goal you have stated. But I
think the practicality is it is going to bewe have got some difficult terrain to get through anyway. And to deal with the jurisdiction issue makes it even harder. Has your organization thought
through this issue of reserve component versus active component?
Mr. BOWERS. We have. And we have often looked at the idea of
recodification under Title 38 and seeing if that is the most effective
measure. And that is something that we are still looking at to see
is that something that would be beneficial. I know that we do say
that we dont see the G.I. bill specifically as a retention tool because if you serve four years versus 16 years, your benefits are still
the same.
Dr. SNYDER. Right.
Mr. BOWERS. So when we hear that debate, that many times
comes up, we dont feel that that is exactly realistic.
Dr. SNYDER. I think the only people that actually see the G.I. for
reserve component as being only a retention tool is a very small
group of high ranking civilians in the Pentagon.
Mr. BOWERS. Yes.
Dr. SNYDER. I think almost everybody else does not agree with
that.
I wanted to, before my time runs out, at this end of the table
would somebody give me my annual update on fresh produce?
Mr. BECKER. I think your original interest in fresh produce
stemmed from a personal experience in witnessing that particular
category and how it was treated in a particular commissary.
Dr. SNYDER. Mold.
Mr. BECKER. I am of the belief that there are probably other
experts
Dr. SNYDER. Actually, no, that is not true, if I might correct you.
It came from a hearing right here.
Mr. BECKER. Is that right?
Dr. SNYDER. I think it was a Marine gunnery sergeant who, I
think, John, had come back from overseas and somebody asked him
do you have any problem withwhat have you heard from your
family. And he said my wife thinks the produce is bad.
So then a week or two later, I went out to Little Rock Air Force
Base and looked at their produce. And it was worse than what his
wife thought their produce was. But it started right there at that
table. In fact, he was sitting right where you are, I think, Mr.
Becker.
Mr. BECKER. Well, I cant forego the opportunity to let you know
howwhat an impact you have had on the commissary system in
the fact thatI think one of the greatest success stories in the last
couple of years is the tremendous progress that has been made in
the area of produce. Sales prove it. Customer satisfaction proves it.
So the long arm of Congress has touched the commissary system
once again.

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Dr. SNYDER. Good. Thank you.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. MCHUGH. If I may, if the gentleman will yield. I would note,
however, you have not had similar success with your annual interest in tattoos.
Dr. SNYDER. No, no, not impacting the tattoo policies at all.
Mr. MCHUGH. No, 50 percent is pretty good.
Mrs. DAVIS. Ms. Shea-Porter. And then we will go to Mr. Jones.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Thank you. I have to laugh because I had a
relative who ran the commissaries in Europe years ago, and nothing has changed. This sounds familiar to conversations from decades ago.
Anyway, what I wanted to ask, please, Colonel Strobridge, I
wanted to talk to you a little bit about what I heard yesterday in
the HASC hearing with Secretary of Defense Gates and your reference to some of the health care issues, TRICARE specifically. I
was looking at the defense budget yesterday, and they are looking
for efficiencies and ways that they plan to save money and said
that, really, it is a monkey on their backs how much the cost of
health care is.
And then I listened to your reference about TRICARE and the
fees, the increase in fees. And I wanted to have you take the opportunity to talk about it for a moment or two and if you think any
of the fees should be raised and if not, if you have any other ideas.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Yes, maam. Number one, we think DOD is
vastly overstating the concern about the cost bogey relative to the
rest of America. When health care is 15 or 16 percent of the national economy and we are worried about the defense budget going
from 8 percent to 11 percent, from our perspective, gee, that is a
lot better than the rest of the country is doing, to start with.
Number two, one of the points that we have made consistently
is that DOD seems a lot more interested in shifting costs to beneficiaries than they have been so far than getting more efficient
themselves. The example that we use is the mail-order pharmacy
system where DOD constantly talked about we need to raise copays in the retail system to shift beneficiaries to the more cost efficient mail-order system when they knew for six years exactly
which beneficiaries were using which high-cost drugs and never
once spent a then 37 cent stamp to go ask them do you realize how
much money you would save if you used this mail-order system.
And we offered to partner with them to do that. Our organization
produced a brochure trying to push people to do that. DOD never
did. And so, we have listed a bunch of different things that DOD
could, one of which the Congress did last year, requiring the Federal pricing in the retail system. We will be very interested to see
how that works on the dynamics of the pharmacy.
But our view is when we have gone to talk to the Department
of Defense whatever we proposed was that doesnt get enough
money out of the beneficiaries, we are not interested in that. As a
matter of fact, we were told point blank we are not interested in
working with you. We are out to get X dollars out of the beneficiaries.
Now, that was some time ago. And, as I said, to Dr. Kassels credit, he has reached out to the beneficiaries more. And we are opti-

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mistic we will get some progress on those kinds of things. But to
us we certainly have a long way to go.
I think one of the things that we overlook is that the military
system is inherently inefficient. The mission of the military medical
system is war, wartime readiness. When we deploy the doctors and
then have to shift all the beneficiaries to the private sector, we
cant complain that the beneficiaries are costing more money.
You know, when you close down access to military facilities and
push people out to the retail pharmacies or we close installations
so that people no longer live next to military pharmacies, we cant
complain that somehow the beneficiaries are costing more money.
When Congress says that it is wrong for military retirees over 65
to be thrown out of their military health care benefit and we are
going to authorize them TRICARE For Life and TRICARE Senior
Pharmacy, which we did in 2001, it is wrong, in our view, to come
back and then use the numbers and say, My gosh, look how much
costs have increased since 2001.
Congress knew that. We knew it was going to happen. We did
it intentionally. It was no surprise.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Before I run out of time, let me ask you a
quick question. When my husband was in the military, we had very
easy access. We didnt have TRICARE. We just went and got what
we needed. Are there people making decisions now not to fill prescriptions because, in spite of the benefit, they still dont have the
money to make up the gap? Do you know that people are actually
refusing or are unable to accept service or a pharmacy prescriptions that they need?
Colonel STROBRIDGE. I am sure there are some older people who
have many medications doing that.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Okay.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. The military co-pays for pharmacy right
now, I have to say, are pretty reasonable. When you start going
from $9 to $25 or to $45 because we are pushing more and more
medications to the non-formulary and you have older people who
take a lot of medications, that is a lot of money that we are asking
people toand as I have saidand I have some statistics that we
went out and got from private sector surveys, if the subcommittee
is interested.
The pharmacy benefit proposals they are offering, they are recommending in the budget are worse than most civilian plans. And
to us, if one of the purposes of the health care system is to say if
you served 20 or 30 years under these adverse conditions, we will
give you one of the best deals in America, that is not it.
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. Thank you.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. I might just mention it would be interesting to me and I am sure the committee if you have some suggestions that you have put forward that you feel have been ignored,
you know, dismissed, even if they have what may be seen as a
marginal impact, I think we would be interested in looking at
them.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. We will be more than happy to provide
those for the record.
Mrs. DAVIS. It is the cumulative impact. And that would be good
to see. One of the things that we are going to do is have an oppor-

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tunity in members districts to talk about health care at length.
And I would be interested in some of those suggestions.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. Yes, maam. You know, if I can offer just a
couple of modest examples that are just incredible to us, one of the
worst things that you can do is smoke for your future health. And
yet TRICARE doesnt pay for smoking cessation services. You
know, what kind of no-brainer is that?
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Jones.
Mr. JONES. Madam Chairman, thank you. I wanted to be here
earlier because of this panel and many friends, and I see new faces
I didnt know. But I listened to you. Yesterday I had the Marine
League, people from all around this country, men and women who
had served in the Marine Corps coming in talking about their
issues.
And I hope, Madam ChairmanI dont know who the nominee
is going to be for the presidency. But when I look at the numbers
and I am not talking about your numbers. But I look at where this
country is, where we are going, and I dont know where the money
is going to come from.
Yesterday Mr. GatesI am going to use it again. I like him. I
complimented him on being a man of integrity, something we didnt
have prior to Mr. Gates, quite frankly. That is my opinion.
But we are providing the blood and the money. And I was enraged last week to read in USA Today of how those who were supposed to be our allies are not meeting their pledge. So these people
who are not sending any of their troops to fightprimarily the
Middle East, the Saudis, and othershad agreed to a pledge of
$15.8 billion to help rebuild Iraq. As of this time, they have paid
$2.5 billion.
This country, America, has already spent $46 billion to rebuild
Iraq. And, Madam Chairman, whomever this President is, he, she
or it, I dont know who it is going to be. But there has got to come
a time that this country says to those who are getting rich and rich
because they are charging us $87 for a barrel of oilso the American taxpayer is paying for it.
The American taxpayers sons and daughters are dying and losing their legs. Many are going to come back and be retired like
many of you at this table.
And when I hear what you are asking forand you should be
able to get 95 percent of what you are asking for. But if this country doesnt understand that borrowing money from foreign governments to pay our bills means we do less for the American people
and those who have worn the uniform. And I didnt come down
here to be outraged. I just came down here to, quite frankly, listen
to you knowing that what you are asking for we ought to be able
to accommodate 75 to 80 percent.
But when you are trying to police the world and nobody is helping you pay the bill, it is coming out of your programs. And I hope
and pray that the next President and those of us in Congress in
both parties will come back to understand that a country that is
in financial trouble like this country better get on sound footing
and start taking care of its people first before we take care of everybody else.

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And I dont have a question to ask. I am familiar with some of
these issues. I just want to vent and show my frustration in your
behalf, quite frankly. Thank you.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones.
I wonder if I could just turn to you for a second, Mr. Bowers, and
talk a little bit about the mental health issues.
Mr. BOWERS. Yes, maam.
Mrs. DAVIS. And you have mentioned how important it is to reduce the stigma for servicemembers. And, in fact, there have been
some programs, I think, that have been put in place of retained
teaching to try and help commanders as well as kind of a peer
teaching program. But I dont know that that has really been implemented yet in a way that we would see any true results at this
point.
Could you tell us if you thinkis that a proper way to go, to educate, when people come into the services early enough or before
they deploy? And when it comes to families, I was talking to some
people involved with wounded warriors one day in my office. And
we were talking a little bit about the education and training because some of the troops that I have met with at Balboa had said,
you know, we need to do this really early. We need to understand
these issues so that they see it in themselves and others.
And I was told you dont want to, you know, deal with that too
early because families are too nervous when their loved one is deployed. So bringing up the importance of understanding these mental health issues too early could, you know, be difficult.
Mr. BOWERS. Exactly.
Mrs. DAVIS. What would you say to that? I mean, how early
should this education begin? What part of the deployment process
should it be part of? And how do we best inform families as well?
Is that earlier, or is it after the fact? You know, really early.
And let me just follow up one or two quick questions. You said
that you thought a coordinated approach to suicide prevention
would be more effective than the current programs, which really
are by individual services. And I wonder if you could comment on
that, whether we need to do that in a coordinated way or more separate.
And the other issue really is whether or not the changes that we
are talking about in having, you know, early screening and whateverdo we need time to really see if they are working? Or should
we be talking about expanding programs early or doing something
different? You know, how much time would you assess we should
wait in order to see if something has actually taken hold?
Mr. BOWERS. Well, I think I relate this to the reason we would
like to see mandatory pre- and post-deployment screening is that
because then that reduces the stigma hands down. I connect this
to in the late 1980s when we required all members of the branches
of service to start taking mandatory drug testing. Before then, individuals were called in to take either a urine analysis or a blood
sample, and the stigma began, and people started talking and saying, hey, sergeant so and so is doing drugs because he just got
called in to do testing.
It wasnt until we required everybody to do it that that stigma
vanished. It was no longer a thought that if you are called in to

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do drug testing that you are using drugs. That cuts that element
away right there.
I look at this, honestly, as a cost savings plan. If we can do it
before and after their deployment and know the exact impact that
is there, then we know it has happened.
Your comment about when do we start training these individualsI would like to seeand something that we have discussed
is I would like to see more integrated programs with combat medics and corpsmen that are the individuals that are on the front
lines to be able to recognize combat stress. These are the individuals that are there on the ground. And they are the ones that can
be prepared to handle a lot of these issues.
I tell my Marines regularly that I am not a mental health expert,
by any means. But I can tell when one of my Marines is in trouble.
As things are laid out now, we are required to self-diagnose. I
dont know when I am having a hard time. But the people that do
know once I return home are the families. They are the first line
of defense. And what better time than when an individual is deployed to begin training programs with the family to help recognize
this?
There are programsand I am sure National Military Family
Association (NMFA) can comment on this more accurately. But
there are training programs right now for individuals. There is key
volunteer programs. There is the battle-mind training, a program
that the Army has instituted approximately 18 months ago where
they are addressing these issues. But by being able to recognize it
right when individuals need it the most is going to be the most effective way.
In regards to suicide prevention, we have been extremely pleased
to see the Department of Veterans Affairs establish a suicide prevention hotline. We have seen the branches of service do suicide
training. For National Guardsmen and Reservists, though, this is
a very difficult task.
We get the opportunity to see these individuals once every 30
days, and that is it. It is hard to assess whether someone really
needs to be reached out to to get help.
With that said, I would love to see a DOD-wide sort of survey
or program or report to find out what the most effective measures
are. Currently I really do believe the Air Force has done that.
Based on their numbers, that they have seen a 30 percent reduction in suicide with their programs.
If DOD was able to harness the successes that the Air Force has
had and spread that Marine Corps-wideexcuse me, can you tell
I am playing favoritism here? If they go DOD-wide with a lot of
these initiatives, we are going to be extremely beneficial in the long
run.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
Mrs. Moakler, did you have a quick response in terms of families? As I said, it was suggested to me that if you talk about this
too early, people are just going to be scared even more than they
are.
Mrs. MOAKLER. I think families need to be educated so that they
are enabled to take care of their own quality of life, to address
their own issues without any kind of doom and gloom, like this is

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exactly how you are going to feel. I think they need to be educated
about how these feelings are natural. You are going to encounter
a certain amount of stress.
Todd mentioned battle-mind. There is a spouse battle-mind. DOD
has come up with fact sheets on military home fronts and deployment health websites that are easy to read, that families can look
at and say, You know, maybe I am feeling a little bit like that.
No, it is not terrible to feel that way.
But I can call military one source and get some counseling to
help me deal with some stresses that I might be going through
with deployment or my children might be going through with deployment. NMFA itselfwe are going to be launching a military
health component of our website with a vast resource link page to
make it easier for military families to, as a matter of course, look
into these things for themselves. And military families are already
doing that because they are looking at the web for mental health
resources.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. And as you can see, we are into a third
round, which is unusual. We are usually running with votes. There
we go.
But, Dr. Snyder, do you want to jump in?
I am sorry. Mr. McHugh, go ahead.
Mr. MCHUGH. Dont be sorry. I am going to feel sorry for these
panelists and say, look, we have had two hours, round of questioning, a call for votes, extensive testimony. If I have any further
questions, I will submit it for the record. But thank you all, as I
tried to indicate in the opening statement, my opening statement,
for what you do.
And, you know, Colonel, you mentioned your efforts through your
organization to try to prioritize and work with us. And I want to
underscore that wasnt just you talking. You live that, and all of
your organizations have been leaders and very, very helpful to me
and I think I can confidently say to everyone on this panel. So keep
up the great work. Thank you.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you.
And, Dr. Snyder, you said you did have a question. Please, go
ahead.
Dr. SNYDER. It is really not a question. This topic came up on
the other side, the Veterans Committee today, in that there has
been some discussion about the New York Times series on veterans
who had come back and had committed crimes. This whole issue
of how you discuss this issue, I think, has become something important. And I, in the spirit of time, think I will just say we can
talk about divorce rates and all those kind of things. The bottom
line is the great majority of people who come back do very, very
well.
The problem is that from the outside it may be appearing that
they are feeling very, very well and they may just be miserable.
But they may be performing well. They are good with their kids.
They are doing their job. But life is not the same.
And I think what we are talking about is how do you alleviate,
in the spirit of friendship, human misery of people, the great majority of whom, are functioning reasonably well. And I dont know
how we get around this issue of being advocates for additional

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mental health services without over-dramatizing it. But that is
what we have been trying to do here for the last year or two or
three.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. And I would say that I believe that we
will be having a whole panel on mental health as we follow up with
the year. So we will have more focus on that.
Ms. Shea-Porter, do you have a question or comment?
Ms. SHEA-PORTER. I just wanted to say that later today I will be
making a statement on the floor about a young man who died in
my district recently and left behind a seven-month-old and a wife
and a grieving family and community. And this is what this is really all about, that each one who serves our country takes that risk
and every member of the family takes that risk with him or with
her.
And so, it is our commitment here in a bipartisan effort to make
sure that you have what you need and that we say thank you in
the right way to all of you and to those who serve us each day. So
I just wanted to say thank you.
Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you. Without objection, I just want to read
this into the record. I ask unanimous consent to include the following written testimonies: Mr. Peter Duffy, Deputy Director, Legislation, National Guard Association of the United States; Ms. Rose
Elizabeth Lee, Chair, Government Relations Committee, Gold Star
Wives of America, Incorporated; statement from the Reserve Officers Association of the United States; and statement from the
Naval Reserve Association. All those will be part of the record.
I want to thank all of you for submitting them. I want to thank
this wonderful panel for being here today. We greatly appreciate all
of your input. And we will look forward to working with you in the
future. Thank you very much.
[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on
pages 187, 195 and 205.]
[Whereupon, at 4:54 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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A P P E N D I X
FEBRUARY 7, 2008

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PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

FEBRUARY 7, 2008

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QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS SUBMITTED FOR THE

RECORD
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QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MRS. DAVIS OF CALIFORNIA

Mrs. DAVIS. It would be interesting to me and I am sure the committee if you
have some suggestions that you have put forward that you feel have been ignored,
you know, dismissed, even if they have what may be seen as a marginal impact,
I think we would be interested in looking at them.
It is the cumulative impact. And that would be good to see. One of the things that
we are going to do is have the opportunity in members districts to talk about health
care at length. And I would be interested in some of those suggestions.
Colonel STROBRIDGE. I would offer the following list of initiatives that we believe
have the potential to reduce long-term defense health costs, in many cases to a significant degree, without impinging on health benefits or beneficiaries.
1. Authorize TRICARE coverage of smoking-cessation services (e.g., hypnosis,
which many smokers have found successful) and products, which multiple studies
indicate is a top-rated means of reducing long-term health costs.
2. Exempt immunizations, preventive measures (e.g. mammograms,
colonoscopies), and medications/services for chronic diseases (e.g., diabetes, asthma)
from deductibles and co-payments to reduce long-term health costs (studies show
even a modest co-pay deters some for using these services/medications, and many
private sector plans are eliminating co-pays as participation incentives).
3. Encourage retention of other health insurance by making TRICARE a true
second-payer to other insurance (TRICARE now often pays nothing; paying the
other insurances co-pay would be far cheaper than having the beneficiary migrate
to TRICARE).
4. Stimulate use of lower-cost mail-order pharmacy by eliminating all mailorder co-pays.
5. Change the electronic claim system to reject errors in real time to help providers submit clean claims and to reduce delays and multiple submissions.
6. Do more to educate beneficiaries and providers on advantages of mail-order
pharmacy; change the law to explicitly allow defense officials to contact beneficiaries
as needed to do so, since DoD General Counsel indicates there are statutory limits
on current authority to do that.
7. Simplify TRICARE Prime referral system to reduce contractor overhead.
8. Reduce TRICARE Reserve Select costs by allowing members the option of a
government subsidy (at cost capped below cost of providing TRICARE) for payment
of civilian employer health premiums during periods of mobilization; over the longer
term, as deployment requirements ease, this would be much less costly than funding
TRICARE coverage for members and families in non-deployed status.
9. Reduce/eliminate DoD-unique administrative requirements that compel contractors to assume more overhead costs (and charge higher fees) than entailed in
other insurance programs.
10. Offer special care management services to beneficiaries with chronic and expensive conditions.
11. Establish centralized DoD high-cost pharmacy for central ordering and filling of prescriptions for exceptionally high-cost drugs (AF model has been successful).
12. Realign military treatment facility pharmacy budget process for centralized
funding, with greater emphasis on accountability and cost-shifting/reimbursement to
reduce departmental/service/installation/facility incentives to act in ways that reduce their specific obligation but increase DoD costs (e.g., robbing local hospital
funding to meet operational needs, which forces more beneficiaries into more expensive civilian care).
13. Consider test of voluntary participation in Medicare Advantage Regional
PPO to foster chronic care improvement and disease management programs.
14. Size military facilities (least costly care option) to reduce reliance on civilian
Prime networks (most costly care option) and treat more retirees under age 65; for
example, military providers see far fewer patients per day than civilian providers,
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in part due to reductions in staff support, so providers have to spend more time on
administrative work; restoring staffing will free providers to see more patients.
15. Increase pharmacist positions and establish satellite military pharmacies
off-base in high-retiree/Guard/Reserve-population areas to recover more prescription
business from higher-cost retail systems; reestablish prescription courier services
that were popular at many locations under which retirees could have their medications delivered from a military pharmacy at some distance from their homes; establish pharmacy counters in commissaries/exchanges to facilitate one-stop shopping to
reduce inconvenience of having to visit multiple on-base facilities and spend time
waiting in military pharmacies.
16. Examine further savings options available from consolidation of medical
services.

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. MCHUGH

Mr. MCHUGH. Within a year 35 percent then say I have a mental health problem,
I need care. I am curious are all of those 35 percent then seeking mental health
care and counseling because of the deployment?
Mr. BOWERS. That data is currently not available. With that said, the PDHA and
PDHRA are only administered to service members who have served on active duty
for a 90-day period. Therefore, a referral is made based off of deployment-related
circumstances. I have provided a copy of the most recent PDHRA that will clarify
the wording of these questions. Please note that although this new version (January
2008) is posted on the Deployment Health Clinical Center website, the older version
(June 2005) continues to be utilized for the assessment process as of March 2, 2008.
The new form has not been fully implemented. A 2006 study led by Army Col.
Charles Hoge, MD, at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, looked at the
results of Iraq veterans PDHAs. Only 19 percent of troops returning from Iraq selfreported a mental health problem. But 35 percent of those troops actually sought
mental health care in the year following deployment. If the PDHA is intended to
correctly identify troops who will need mental health care, it simply does not work.
A follow-up study in 2007, also published in the Journal of the American Medical
Association, concluded: Surveys taken immediately on return from deployment substantially underestimate the mental health burden. Although the PDHRA, which
troops fill out six months after deployment, is more likely to identify mental health
injuries its overall effectiveness is also dubious. Troops may not be filling out their
forms accurately, troops needing counseling are not consistently getting referrals,
and those with referrals do not always get treatment.
Charles W. Hoge et al., Mental Health Problems, Use of Mental Health Services,
and Attrition from Military Service After Returning from Deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan, Journal of the American Medical Association, March 1, 2006, 295, p.
1023: http://www.iava.org/images/JAMA.pdf.
Mr. MCHUGH. So if you are deployed, that 20 percent figure is higher than it
would be if you were not?
Would it be possible to get some data on that, if you have a chance?
Mr. BOWERS. Yes. And I have also found that with multiple deployments this is
having an increasing impact whereas the percentage rate goes up per deployment.
[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on page 218].

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MRS. BOYDA

Mrs. BOYDA. In your testimony you had said that multiple tours and inadequate
time at home and between deployments increased rates of combat stress at 50 percent. Where do you have those numbers?
Mr. BOWERS. According to the military Mental Health Advisory Team (MHAT)s
survey of soldiers and Marines in Iraq, soldiers deployed to Iraq more than once
were 50 percent more likely to be diagnosed with mental health injuries than those
on their first deployment.
Mental Health Advisory Team (MHAT) IV Brief, General James T. Conway,
Commandant of the Marine Corps, April 18, 2007, p. 17: http://
www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/mhativl8apr07.pdf.

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