REPORTOFTHEAPEGBC/ASTTBCLIMITEDLICENCERENEWALTASKFORCE

withrecommendationsto
APEGBC&ASTTBCCouncils

18March2011

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TABLEOFCONTENTS

ExecutiveSummary.............................................................................................................................3
Introduction.............................................................................................................................................3
SummaryofRecommendations..............................................................................................................4
Corerecommendations.......................................................................................................................4
SupportingRecommendations............................................................................................................4
SupportingRecommendationsCONTD...............................................................................................5
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS........................................................................................................................6
TERMSOFREFERENCEANDDELIVERABLES..........................................................................................7
Purpose:...............................................................................................................................................7
Deliverables:.........................................................................................................................................7
FINDINGSANDRECOMMENDATIONS..................................................................................................7
Reviewofthe2006LimitedLicenceTaskForcereport...........................................................................7
StakeholderConsultation........................................................................................................................8
WhatisworkingWell..........................................................................................................................9
HistoryofPracticeReview,Investigation&Discipline............................................................................9
SurveyResults..........................................................................................................................................9
WhatNeedsImprovement................................................................................................................10
ScopeFormatandDevelopment...........................................................................................................10
SimplifiedScopeStructure.................................................................................................................10
ReformattingExistingScopes.............................................................................................................12
ScopeChangeProcess...........................................................................................................................12
MinorScopeChanges:RequirementsandProcess...........................................................................13
MajorScopeChangesandNewapplications.....................................................................................16
Undertaking...........................................................................................................................................17
BridgingtoP.Eng.orP.Geo....................................................................................................................18
BylawChange.....................................................................................................................................18
RecognitionandPromotionoftheLimitedLicenceandEngineeringandGeoscienceLicensees........19
ToAuthoritiesHavingJurisdiction.....................................................................................................19
ToEmployers,MembersandthePublic............................................................................................20
TheTerminologyLimitedLicence....................................................................................................21
MembershipRightsandPrivileges........................................................................................................22
Mobility..................................................................................................................................................22
ProfessionalTechnologistregistrationandScopeofPractice..............................................................23

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 DifferentiationbetweenLimitedLicenceandP.Tech........................................................................25
BACKGROUNDMATERIAL..................................................................................................................26
IncludedintheAppendices................................................................................................................26
OtherBackgroundMaterial...............................................................................................................26
APPENDICES......................................................................................................................................27
AppendixAAPEGBC/ASTTBCLimitedLicenceRenewalTaskForceTermsofReference..................27
AppendixBLimitedLicenceandTechnologistPracticeLegislationCrossCanadaScan.................29
AppendixCSampleApprovedDefinedScopesofPracticeBC,AB,ON...........................................37
AppendixDASTTBCLimitedLicenceInformalSurveyResultsDecember2010..............................41
AppendixEJanuary2011SurveyResultsAllLimitedLicensees........................................................47
AppendixFResponsesToInformationRelease..................................................................................65
AppendixGBriefingNoteonBridgingfromEng.L./Geo.L.toP.Eng./P.Geo......................................63

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EXECUTIVESUMMARY

INTRODUCTION

InDecember2010,theCouncilsofAPEGBCandASTTBCjointlyapprovedtheformationofaLimited
LicenceRenewalTaskForce(theTaskForce)whichwastoreviewtheAPEGBCLimitedLicenceand
makerecommendationstobothCouncilsbyMarch31,2011.

TheTaskForceheldeightmeetingsoveratwomonthperiodincludingajointmeetingwiththe
ASTTBC/APEGBCPTechTaskForce.Taskforcemeetingminutesandthisreportweresharedwiththe
PTechTaskForce.

AreasinvestigatedbytheTaskForceincluded:
ProgressonrecommendationsfromtheReportofthe2006LimitedLicenceTaskForce
UtilityoftheLimitedLicenceforEngineeringorGeoscienceLicensees
AcceptanceoftheLimitedLicencebyOthers,includingAuthoritiesHavingJurisdiction
Scopedevelopmentandformat
Evaluationofnewapplicants
Majorandminorscopechangesandassociatedevaluationprocesses
PromotionoftheLimitedLicenceandrecognitionofEngineeringorGeoscienceLicensees
DesignationoftheLimitedLicenceandEngineeringorGeoscienceLicensees
BridgingopportunitiestoProfessionalEngineer/Geoscientist
MembershipstatusofEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseeswithinAPEGBC
MobilityofEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseeswithinCanada
RelationshipbetweenLimitedLicenceandaPTechscopeofpractice.

TheTaskForcedeterminedthattheLimitedLicenceprogramneedstobecontemporizedand
revitalizedtomakeitanattractiveandinclusivealternativeforindependentpracticeofprofessional
engineeringandgeosciencesinB.C.,whilemaintaininghighstandardsofentryandpractice.

Findingsandconclusionsrelatedtothesetopicalareasarepresentedinthereport.

RecommendationsoftheTaskForcewereshapedbyinputfromcurrentEngineeringorGeoscience
Licensees,comparisontopracticesofotherprofessionsandjurisdictions,discussionwithsubject
matterexpertsandgroupdiscussion.Alistofreferencematerialintheformofsurveys,briefing
notes,environmentalscans1andsubmissionsfromothersisintheBackgroundMaterialSectionon
Page26.AselectionofthismaterialhasbeenincludedintheAppendices(Page27).

1
Environmentalscanningistheacquisitionanduseofinformationaboutevents,trends,andrelationshipsinanorganization'sexternal
environment,theknowledgeofwhichwouldassistmanagementinplanningtheorganization'sfuturecourseofaction.

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TheTaskForceaddressedarangeofaspectsthatitfeelscanandshouldbeimproved.Theseinclude:
scopewordingthatcanbeconfusing,maylimitpracticeinanimpracticalwayandportraya
reluctanceonthepartofAPEGBCtorelyontheEngineeringorGeoscienceLicensees
professionaljudgmentandadherencetotheCodeofEthics;
acumbersomeandcostlyqualificationprocess;
asometimescondescendingtonetowordingonAPEGBCswebsite;
alackofinclusionofEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseesinAPEGBCaffairs;
thewordLimitedasadescriptorfortheLicence;and
promotionoftheEng.L..andGeo.L..brandbyAPEGBCtothepublic,legislators,employersand
itsmembershasbeenlacking,creatingaperceptionbythesegroupsthatthisdesignationis
secondclass.

SUMMARYOFRECOMMENDATIONS

RecommendationshavebeencategorizedasCoreorSupporting.
Inmostcases,SupportingRecommendationsarerequiredtoimplementCore
Recommendations.

CORERECOMMENDATIONS

1. thattheRegistrationCommitteeberequestedtoimplementtheproposedstandard,simplified
scopeformatandtheGuidetoDevelopingaScopeofPracticeberewrittentoincorporatethe
newformatandscopedevelopmentguidelines,includingalistoftypicallimitationsand
exclusionsforeachareaofpractice.(Page10)
2. thattheLimitedLicenceNewApplicantprocessbereviewedbytheRegistrationCommitteeas
partofitsprocessreengineeringprojectwithaneyetostreamliningit.(Page16)
3. thataBridgingImplementationTaskForcebeestablishedtoreviewandrecommendprocesses
tofacilitatebridgingfromEngineering(Geoscience)LicenseetoProfessionalEngineer
(Geoscientist).(Page18)
4. thatAPEGBCimmediatelyandaggressivelyreinforcetotheProvincialGovernment,other
AuthoritiesHavingJurisdictionandOthersthattheEngineersandGeoscientistsActgives
EngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesfullauthoritytopracticeprofessionalengineeringor
professionalgeoscienceintheirscopesofpractice.(Page20)
5. thatEngineeringLicenseesandGeoscienceLicenseesbeincludedinthedefinitionofMember
atthenextopportunityforanActand/orBylawchange.(Page22)
6. thatAPEGBCrecommendtoitssisterregulatorybodiesthatmobilityofLimitedLicencesand
relateddesignationsbestudiedonanationalbasis.(Page22)

SUPPORTINGRECOMMENDATIONS

1a. thatcurrentEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseesbeofferedforalimitedtime(6months)atno
costtothemselves,areformattingoftheirscopestomatchtheproposedscopeformatmodel,
and/orgrammaticalchangestotheirscopesthatdonotchangetheboundariesofthe
scope.(Page12)
1b. thattheRegistrationCommitteeberequestedtoadopt(a)thedefinitionofMinorandMajor
ScopeChangesand(b)theproposedevaluationprocessforMinorScopeChanges.(Page13)

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SUPPORTINGRECOMMENDATIONSCONTD

1c. thatEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesbeofferedaMinorScopeChangeReviewatthetime
ofthefiveyearmandatoryPracticeReviewatnocosttotheLicensee.(Page13)
1d. thatthefeeforotherMinorScopeChangesreflectreasonablecostrecoveryoftheassociated
processingcosts.(Page13)
2a. thatasubcommittee,reportingtoRegistration,becreatedspecificallytorevieweach
applicationforanewLimitedLicenceandtoreviewmajorscopechanges.(Page16)
2b. thattheUndertakingsignedbyEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesberewordedtoremove
therequirementtosubmitacopyoftheLimitedLicencerepeatedlyandthatthewordingread:
Iwillensurethatclientsareawareofthescopeofmylicenceandonlyprovideprofessional
engineering(geoscience)servicesthatarewithinthatscopeofpractice.(Page17)
3a. thatBylaw11(e),RegisteredMember,bechangedtorequiretheequivalentofgraduation
fromafouryearfulltimeuniversityprograminsteadofgraduationfromtheequivalentofa
fouryearfulltimeuniversityprogramasacademicqualificationforregistration.(Page18)
4a. thatAPEGBCreferenceEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesinitsPracticeandOther
Guidelines,includingtheDirectSupervisionGuideline.(Page20)
4b. thatAPEGBCregularlyrefertoandincludeEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesinits
documentation,advertising,publicationsandactivities.(Page21)
4c. thatAPEGBCcarryoutanextensivereviewofitswebsiteandprinteddocumentationwith
respecttothetermLimitedLicenceandmodifythemtobemoreinclusiveoftheLimitedLicence
andtospeaktothevalueofitsholderstoAPEGBCandthepracticesofprofessionalengineering
andgeoscienceinB..C..(Page21)
4d. thatAPEGBCmodifytheTermsofReferenceofitsPresidentsAwardstoincludeEngineeringand
GeoscienceLicensees.(Page21)
4e. thatAPEGBCmodifytheTermsofReferenceofitsCommitteestoincludeEngineeringand
GeoscienceLicensees,includingthosecommitteesthataffecttheentryandpracticeof
EngineeringandGeoscienceLicensees.(Page21)
4f. thattheterminologyLimitedLicencebereviewedwithrespecttodesignationsissuedbyother
provincesandthatthedesignationEngineering(Geoscience)Licensee(Eng.L.,Geo.L.)be
maintained.(Page21)
7. thattheAPEGBCandASTTBCCouncilsconsidertheP.Tech.scopestructureasapossible
complementtotheLimitedLicencerevisedscopestructure.(Page24)
7a. thattheAPEGBCandASTTBCCouncilsconsiderthemeritsoftwolimitedscopelicencesversus
onewithrespecttoclaritytothepublic,membershipsandAuthoritiesHavingJurisdiction.(Page
25)
8. thatacopyofthisreportbesenttotheSubjectMatterExpertsandStakeholderswhoadvised
theTaskForceandrespondedtoitssurveys.(Page25)

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ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

APEGBC/ASTTBCLIMITEDLICENCERENEWALTASKFORCE
PaulBlanchard,P.Eng. Chair
DonDelcourt,AScT,Eng.L. ASTTBCAppointee
DougFalkins,Eng.L. APEGBCAppointee
TomHunt,AScT,Eng.L APEGBCAppointee
AndyMill,P.Eng.,Struct.Eng. APEGBCAppointee,MemberofCouncil
DanMooney,AScT,CPWI1 ASTTBCAppointee
KeithTrulson,AScT,Eng.L. ASTTBCAppointee,MemberofCouncil

STAFFSUPPORT
MartinMacGregor,AScT,CPI DeputyRegistrar,ASTTBC
GillianPichler,P.Eng. Director,Registration,APEGBC

SPECIALTHANKSTO
HonourableIdaChong, MinisterofScienceandUniversities&
MinisterofEconomicandSkillsDevelopment
PeterMitchell,P.Eng. DirectorProfessional Practice, Standards and Development,, APEGBC
JanetSinclair ChiefOperatingOfficer,APEGBC
MarkTokarik,LLB,P.Eng. Director,Registration,APEGGA
CarolineWestra Manager,Academic&ExperienceAssessment,APEGBC

ASTTBC/APEGBCPTechTaskForce

APEGBCEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseeswhoparticipatedinthesurveys

ASTTBCMemberswhorespondedtotheInformationRelease.

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TERMSOFREFERENCEANDDELIVERABLES

TheTaskForceTermsofReferencesetoutitsPurposeandDeliverablesasfollows:

PURPOSE:

ToadvisetheASTTBCandAPEGBCCouncilsonanimprovedandmoreeffectiveLimitedLicence
system.

DELIVERABLES:

1. ReviewandconsidertheReportoftheAPEGBCLimitedLicenceTaskForcedatedSept.
2006
2. ReviewthecurrentexperienceinBCandsummarizewhatworkswellandwhatneeds
improvement
3. ReviewtherelevantexperienceacrossCanadaincludingprocesses,designations,scopes
ofpracticeandlegislativeframework
4. DevelopandrecommendrefinementstotheLimitedLicencesysteminBC
5. TheworkoftheTaskForcewillconsider,butnotaddress,theProfessionalTechnologist
registrationandscopeofpracticeasthisiswithinthemandateofanotherTaskForce
appointedbythetwoassociations
6. ReportfindingstotheAPEGBCandASTTBCCouncilsbyMarch31,2011.

FINDINGSANDRECOMMENDATIONS

REVIEWOFTHE2006LIMITEDLICENCETASKFORCEREPORT

The Task Force reviewed the 2006 Limited Licence Task Force Report and noted that its
recommendationshadmainlybeencompletedandthatthefouroutstandingitemswereeitherin
progressorawaitinglegislativechanges.Itdeterminedthattherewasaneedforupdatingofthe
workdonein2006,inlinewiththedeliverablesfromitsTermsofReference.
Itemsthathadnotbeenfullyaddressedwere:
Recommendation14:ThatvotingprivilegesbeextendedtoholdersofLimitedLicences,
includingtherighttorunforOffice.
Recommendation15:ThatastudyofthePracticeReviewmodel,includingasitrelatesto
LimitedLicensees,beundertakenasapriority.
Recommendation16:Thattheexploratoryinitiativesaretaken,whethernationallyor
interprovincially,toexploremobilityopportunitieswiththoseProvincesofferingLimited
Licenceprograms.
Recommendation17:ThatCouncilconsidersconveningaseparateTaskForce,orother
suitablemechanism,toexaminetheissueofdirectsupervision.Thisreviewshould
includetheissuesoftakingresponsibilityfornonmemberswork,aswellaswhich
personsshouldbepracticingasLimitedLicensees.
The2006GoalStatementwasdiscussedtodeterminewhetheritisstillvalidforthecurrentTask
Forceswork.Itwasdecidedthattheworkneededtobecontemporized,revisitingunresolved
issuesandaddingnewones,surveyingLicenceholdersandidentifyingwhatisworkingandwhat
isnot.

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STAKEHOLDERCONSULTATION

Duringitswork,theTaskForcereliedoninputfromthefollowingsubjectmatterexpertsand
stakeholders:
SubjectMatterExperts
PeterMitchell,P.Eng.,Director,ProfessionalPractice,StandardsandDevelopment,who
attendedameetingtoreviewAPEGBCseffortstodateinpromotingtheexpertiseof
EngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseestoAuthoritiesHavingJurisdiction,andthe
feasibilityofreferringtoEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesaswellasP.Eng.sand
P.Geo.sinpracticeguidelinesanddemandsidelegislation
JanetSinclair,APEGBCChiefOperatingOfficer,whoattendedameetingtodiscussoptions
forpromotionoftheLimitedLicence
MarkTokarik,LLB,P.Eng.,APEGGADirector,Registrationwhoattendedtwomeetingsby
conferencecallandreviewedtheAPEGGAProfessionalLicenseedesignation,legislation
andevaluationprocess,andprogresstodateontheProfessionalTechnologist
designation,governanceandevaluationprocess
CarolineWestra,APEGBCManager,AcademicandExperienceAssessmentwhoattended
sixmeetingsandprovidedinsightandexamplesintotheevaluationandscopechange
processes
Stakeholders
(8)APEGBCEngineeringandGeoscienceLicensees(Eng.L.andGeo.L.),whoarealso
membersofASTTBC,andwhorespondedtoaninformalsurveyinDecember2010
initiatedbyASTTBC
(45)APEGBCEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseeswhorespondedtoaformalTaskForce
surveyinJanuaryandFebruary2011
ASTTBC/APEGBCProfessionalTechnologistTaskForcewhichrequestedajointmeeting,
heldonFebruary21,2011,toexplorewhethertherenewed(Limited)Licencecan
accommodatetheProfessionalTechnologistasonelicenceandwithwhomthe
APEGBC/ASTTBCLimitedLicenceRenewalTaskForceshareditsminutesandfinalreport;
and
RespondentstotheAPEGBC/ASTTBCInformationReleaseannouncingtheinitiationofthe
two(LLRTFandPTech)TaskForcesandthepurposeoftheirwork.

Asurveyofprospectiveapplicants,employersandmemberswasconsideredbuttimedidnot
permitthistobecarriedout.

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WHATISWORKINGWELL

HISTORYOFPRACTICEREVIEW,INVESTIGATION&DISCIPLINE

Inaccordancewithitsdeliverabletosummarizewhatworkswell,TheTaskForcereviewedthe
performanceofcurrentEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseeswithrespecttoAPEGBCsPractice
ReviewandInvestigationandDisciplineprograms.

Todate,EngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseeshaveahighpercentageofcomplianceintheir
PracticeReviewsandlittleexposuretoAPEGBCsInvestigationprocesses.TheTaskForce
concludedthatthisisanindicationthatEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesareworkingwithin
theirassignedscopes,arecomplyingwithAPEGBCsCodeofEthicsandareshowingahighdegree
ofprofessionalism.

SURVEYRESULTS

SurveyrespondentsweresubstantiallysatisfiedwiththefollowingaspectsoftheLimitedLicence
program:

ByobtainingtheLimitedLicence,84.4%hadachievedtheirintendedgoal(independent
practice,regulatoryorotherrequirement,employerrecognition)
82.2%feltthatthequalificationrequirementsareappropriateandthattheprocessis
respectful
60%+feltthattheirscopeaccuratelyreflectstheircompetenceand(71.1%)iseasily
understoodbyothers,although57.8%alsofeltthattheirscopeshouldbelessdetailed
andrelymoreontheirprofessionaljudgment
68%+feltthattheyreceiveappropriaterecognitionasanEngineeringorGeoscience
Licenseefromtheiremployerandpeers,butlessso(60%)fromAPEGBC,andonly47.7%
feltthattheyreceiveappropriaterecognitionsfromBCAuthoritieshavingJurisdiction
68.9%wouldrecommendthecurrentLimitedLicencetoacolleague,althoughthis
numberwouldincreaseiftheprogramwereenhanced,streamlinedandpromotedby
APEGBC.

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 WHATNEEDSIMPROVEMENT

SCOPEFORMATANDDEVELOPMENT

TheTaskForcereviewedtheLimitedLicencescopesissuedtodateandcomparedthemtoscopes
issuedbyotherjurisdictionsonasimilarbasisofqualification.APEGBCissuedscopesarenotably
moredetailedandlimitedthanthoseissuedbyotherjurisdictions.

AmajorityofAPEGBCEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseeswhorespondedtothesurveywere
oftheopinionthatthewordingoftheirlicencesshouldbelessdetailedandrelymoreontheir
professionaljudgmentandthatAPEGBCshouldprovideaninexpensiveexpeditedprocessfor
updatingthescopeofanexistingEngineeringorGeoscienceLicensee.

After going through a rigorous process of getting the licence, it feels like
your judgment is not trusted by APEGBC. In fact most of the L. Eng. hold
responsiblepositionsatworkplaceandsocietySurveyRespondent

TheTaskForceagreedthatscopesneedtobeunderstandable,realisticanddynamic,allowingfor
areasonablelevelofjudgment.Itaddressedthebalancebetweentheneedforreasonablywell
definedscopesandanexpectationthatEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseewillfollowtheCode
ofEthics.TheTaskForceconcludedthatasimplifiedandstandardscopestructureisneeded
thatprovidesclarityandconsistencyinscopesandallowsanEngineeringorGeoscienceLicensee
toexpandhisorherscopeinastraightforwardandsimplewayinthefuturewhenadditional
competenceisgained.

SIMPLIFIEDSCOPESTRUCTURE

TheTaskForceproposedascopeformatstructure(Page11)andthebasisforguidelinesfor
scopedevelopmentandmodification(Table1)andtestedtheseagainstsixexistingscopes,
includingthreescopesheldbyTaskForcemembers.Anexampleofacurrentscopeanditsnew
formatversionareonthenextpage.

ScopeFormatStructure(alsoseeFigure1onnextpage)
TABLE1SCOPEFORMATTINGGUIDELINE
1. GeneralPreamble
2. Definedisciplineofpractice,Discipline:XEngineering(Geoscience)ifthescopecanbedefinedwithinone
discipline,ortoaddclarity
3. Defineasubsetofthediscipline,FieldofPractice:Ye.g.MunicipalInfrastructure,BuildingServices,Fire
Protection(donotincludethewordengineeringorgeoscience)
4. Stateanylimitations,ifany,onpracticewithinasubsetofthediscipline,Limitedto:(list)
5. StateanyExclusions,ifanywithinthelimitations,Exclusions(list)
6. UseterminologyintheActdefinitionofprofessionalengineering/geoscience(design,management,etc)only
ifneededtodefinealimitationorexclusion.

PrinciplesforScopeComposition/Modification
a. Inwritingthescopewewillusethesimplestpossiblelanguagetodescribethescope
b. Avoidwherepossiblereferringtospecificsectionsofacode,standardorregulation
c. ScopescangrowandchangebyeliminatingLimitationsand/orExclusionswhenalicenseecanprove
competencewithrespecttothelimitationsorexclusions

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 FIGURE1SCOPESTRUCTURE


StandardPreamble
Namehassignedanundertakingandisthereforeauthorized
toengageinthepracticeofProfessional
Engineering/GeosciencewithintheProvinceofBritish
Columbia,withinthelimitedscopeasspecifiedhereunder:

Discipline:
Ifclearandsingledisciplinepractice

FieldofPractice:
(notincludingthewordsengineeringorgeoscience)

ListofLimitations:
Limitedto:

ListofExclusions:
(ifany)

CURRENTVSNEWFORMATSCOPECOMPARISON

CurrentScope NewFormatScope
LicenseeAhassignedanundertakingandisthereforeauthorizedtoengageinthepractice LicenseeAhassignedanundertakingandistherefore
ofProfessionalEngineeringintheProvinceofBritishColumbia,withinthelimitedscopeas authorized to engage in the practice of Professional
specifiedhereunder: EngineeringintheProvinceofBritishColumbia,within
thelimitedscopeasspecifiedhereunder:
Professional engineering in the civil discipline, limited to: water distribution, sewerage
collection, drainage, and roads, all in accordance with standard municipal requirements Discipline:CivilEngineering
forlanddevelopmentinruralareas. FieldofPractice:MunicipalInfrastructure:

Thescopeincludesandislimitedto: Limitedto:
Landdevelopmentinruralareas
1.Detaileddesignof:waterdistribution facilities,sanitaryseweragecollectionsystems,
stormwater collection and discharge facilities for minor drainage areas, local and Water distribution facilities, sanitary
collectorroads,andsitegrading. sewerage collection, stormwater collection
and discharge facilities for minor drainage
2. Conceptual design and performance requirements for pump stations (up to and areas,
including 10hp), as necessary for the provision of detailed design drawings and
localandcollectorroads
specificationsbyothers.
sitegrading
3. Issuance of technical specifications and contract documents as necessary for the
tenderingandconstructionoftheabovedescribedworks. Exclusions:

4. Administration of construction contracts for the above described works, including detaileddesignofpumpingsystems
monitoring of construction for adherence to the contract documents, certification conceptualandperformancerequirements
andpaymentfortheworkperformed,andcertificationoftherecorddrawings. forpumpingsystemsover10hp
5. All work undertaken shall be in accordance with standard design criteria commonly
prescribedintypicalmunicipalsubdivisioncontrolbylawsorinaccordancewithother
regulatoryagenciesstandardrequirementsforsitedevelopment.

 Recommendation1 thattheRegistrationCommitteeberequestedtoimplementthe
proposedstandard,simplifiedscopeformatandtheGuideto
DevelopingaScopeofPracticeberewrittentoincorporatethe
newformatandscopedevelopmentguidelinesincludingalistof
typicallimitationsandexclusionsforeachareaofpractice.

REFORMATTINGEXISTINGSCOPES

TheTaskForceconsideredthesurveyresultsandcommentsthatthecurrentscopescanbe
wordy,daunting,difficulttointerpret,excessivelyrestrictiveandsometimesneglectto
mentionthedisciplineorfieldofpractice,reducingtheutilityoftheLimitedLicence.Shouldthe
new,simplifiedscopeformatbeacceptedbytheRegistrationCommittee,theTaskForce
recommendedthatcurrentEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesbeoffered,foralimitedtime,
afreerewritingoftheirscopes:eithertocomplywiththenewformatand/ortomake
grammaticalchanges(e.g.onelicencereferstotheLicenseeasanapplicant).

Recommendation1athatcurrentEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesbeofferedfor
alimitedtime(6months)atnocosttothemselves,a
reformattingoftheirscopestomatchtheproposedscopeformat
model,and/orgrammaticalchangestotheirscopesthatdonot
changetheboundariesofthescope.

SCOPECHANGEPROCESS
Surveyrespondentshadindicatedthataninexpensiveexpeditedprocessforupdatingthescope
ofanexistingEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseeisneeded.Theproposednewscopeformat
(page11)wasdesignedtofacilitateminorscopechangesbyremovinglimitationsandexclusions
astheEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseeacquiresadditionalcompetence.

TheTaskForcesuggestedthatmajorandminorscopechangescanbecharacterizedasfollows:

MajorScopeChange
Changeofdiscipline
Changeoffieldofpractice
MinorScopeChange
Allotherchangestolimitationsorexclusions(i.e.)EngineeringorGeoscience
Licenseescompetencehasmaturedorimproved

TheTaskForcealsoaddressedtheinclusionofIndustryasalimitationinsomecurrentscopesand
determinedthatitisnotatruelimitationanditisadvisabletoremoveitfromexistingscopes.

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MINORSCOPECHANGES:REQUIREMENTSANDPROCESS

RecommendedrequirementsforaMinorScopeChangeare:
Submissionofsupportingexamplesdemonstratingcompetencetojustifyremovalofan
exclusionorlimitation
References/lettersofsupportfrom3professionalengineers(orgeoscientists)attestingto
thecompetenceoftheEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseeintherequestedscopearea.
ThefeeforaMinorScopeChangeshouldreflectreasonablecostrecoveryofthe
associatedprocessingcost.

AflowchartoutliningtheproposedMinorScopeChangeprocessisonthenextpage.

MINORSCOPECHANGEANDPRACTICEREVIEW

OnlyonethirdofsurveyrespondentsthoughtthatthefiveyearmandatoryPracticeReviewis
appropriate;howeverTaskForcemembersfeltthatitshouldbemaintained.TheTaskForcewas
pleasedtonotethatAPEGBCCouncilhadrecentlyeliminatedthefeeforthisreview.

TheTaskForcesawthefiveyearPracticeReviewasanopportunityforEngineeringand
GeoscienceLicenseestorequestaMinorScopechangeatnochargetotheLicensee.TheMinor
ScopechangewouldfollowtheMinorScopeChangeprocessandwouldbecoincidentwith,but
independentofthePracticeReviewprocess.

Recommendation1bthattheRegistrationCommitteeberequestedtoadopt(a)the
definitionofMinorandMajorScopeChangesand(b)the
proposedevaluationprocessforMinorScopeChanges.
Recommendation1cthatEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesbeofferedaMinor
ScopeChangeReviewatthetimeofthefiveyearmandatory
PracticeReviewatnocosttotheLicensee.
Recommendation1dthatthefeeforotherMinorScopeChangesreflectreasonable
costrecoveryoftheassociatedprocessingcosts.

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 FIGURE2:MINORSCOPECHANGEPROCESS

ScopeChangeDesired

ChangeofSub Removelimitationor
ChangeofDiscipline exclusionrelatedto
DisciplineorAreaof
practice existingscope

ApplyforMajorScopeChange Applyfor
ApplyforNewScopethroughRegularProcess MinorScopeChange

Submit:
ProjectSamples
Coursework/CPD
P.Eng.orP.GeoReferences
Relatedtorequestedchange

YES
SEELIMITEDLICENCEREVIEW ReviewbyAPEGBCStanding
PROCESSFLOWCHART(next Interview SubCommitteeofRegistration
page)FORBALANCEOF Recommended? Committee
PROCESS ? EstablishedforthisPurpose:

NO

ScopeChangeRecommendedtoRegistration Page14of72
CommitteewithoutInterview

 FIGURE3:LIMITEDLICENCEREVIEWPROCESSFLOWCHART

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MAJORSCOPECHANGESANDNEWAPPLICATIONS

TheTaskForcereviewedthecurrentreviewprocessfornewapplications,whichisalsocurrently
beingfollowedforaMajorScopeChange.

ItnotedthattheRegistrationCommitteeiscurrentlyundertakingaprocessreengineeringproject.
Areviewofresponsestothesurveyindicatedthatthelongandsomewhatconvolutedprocesscan
beabarrierwhenconsideringwhethertoapply.

WhenIappliedinthemid1990'sittookalmost2yearstohavetheapplication
completed.Iexpectthattheprocesshasbeenstreamlinedsincethen.Although
mycolleagueswhoareinterestedingettingtheirLimitedLicenceappeartoshy
away when they review the application procedures. Many show interest but
nonefollowthrough.

ItrecommendedthattheLimitedLicenceNewApplicantProcessbereviewedbytheRegistration
Committeeaspartofitsprocessreengineeringprojectwithaneyetostreamliningit.Italso
recommendedthat

a. thepanelinterviewhavetwoparts:(i)todeterminewhethertheApplicantisqualifiedand
(ii)torefinethescopewiththeApplicant.

b. theRegistrationCommitteenotrewritescopesatitsmeeting;ratherthatifonanexception
basis,itwantstoaddalimitationorexclusion,itbesentbacktotheReviewersandthe
Applicant;and

c. applicationsforLimitedLicencebereviewedapplyingrecommendedpolicies,processesand
scopeformatsonaconsistentandequitablebasis.Tothisend,theTaskForcerecommends
thatastandingsubcommitteeoftheRegistrationCommitteebecreatedtoreviewall
applicationsforLimitedLicenceincludingnewapplicationsandapplicationsformajorand
minorscopechangesandtomakerecommendationstotheRegistrationCommittee.

Recommendation2 thattheLimitedLicenceNewApplicantprocessbereviewedbythe
RegistrationCommitteeaspartofitsprocessreengineeringproject
withaneyetostreamliningit.

Recommendation2athatasubcommittee,reportingtoRegistration,becreated
specificallytorevieweachapplicationforanewLimitedLicence
andtoreviewmajorscopechanges.

Page16of72

UNDERTAKING

AllEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesarerequiredtosignanundertakinginwhichthey
committoprovideacopyoftheirLimitedLicence,scopeandlimitations:

i. toallclientsatthecommencementofanyengineeringprojectorwork

ii. withanyproposalforengineeringconsultingwork;and

iii. totheiremployer(ifapplicable).

TheTaskForcenotedthatsurveyrespondentswerereportingthatthefrequencywithwhichthey
usetheirstamppersubmissionorproposalisgreaterthanthatwithwhichtheysubmittheir
LimitedLicencepersubmissionorproposal,whichisnotinlinewiththerequirementinthe
Undertaking.TheTaskForceconsideredwhethertherequirementispracticalgiventhatclients,
AHDsetcwithwhomEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseesdofrequentbusinesshaveacopyof
theLimitedLicenceonrecord.

Itrecommendedthat(i)through(iii)abovebereplacedby,Ensurethatclientsareawareofthe
scopeofmylicenceandonlyprovideprofessionalengineering(geoscience)servicesthatare
withinthatscopeofpractice.Thewebsiteshouldbeupdatedtoreflectthischange
(http://www.apeg.bc.ca/members/LLscopelist.html).

Recommendation2b thattheUndertakingsignedbyEngineeringandGeoscience
Licenseesberewordedtoremovetherequirementtosubmita
copyoftheLimitedLicencerepeatedlyandthatthewording
read:Iwillensurethatclientsareawareofthescopeofmy
licenceandonlyprovideprofessionalengineering(geoscience)
servicesthatarewithinthatscopeofpractice.

Page17of72

BRIDGINGTOP.ENG.ORP.GEO.

Surveyrespondentsindicatedsignificantinterestinbridgingprogramsandmanysaidthatthey
wouldfollowabridgingprogramifitwereavailable.

The idea of a bridge program is interesting and worthwhile. I think any

programideahastotakeintoaccountsituationssimilartowhatIwasfaced
with when I enrolled in the APEGBC student program over 20years ago. I
desperately wanted to become licensed, but had a young family, new
mortgageandheavyworkloadtobalance.Ijustcouldn'tmanagethescaleof
timerequiredtocoverthecourseloadandexamstogetcertified.Ifeelthata
program has to be practical and manageable within the working lives of
applicants.SurveyRespondent

TheTaskForcereviewedabriefingnoteonbridgingprogramsusedbyotherprofessionsand
engineeringorganizationsaroundtheworld,aswellasaonetimebridgingprojectthatAPEGBC
implementedforNavalArchitectureandMarineEngineering(AppendixGBriefingNoteon
BridgingfromEng.L./Geo.L.toP.Eng./P.Geo.).

BYLAWCHANGE

Bylaw11(e)needsaminorwordingchangetoallowforbridgingprograms.Itcurrentlyrequires
anapplicanttohavegraduatedfromtheequivalentofafouryearfulltimeuniversityprogramin
engineering,appliedscience,science,geoscienceortechnologyversushavingtheequivalentof
graduationfromafouryearuniversityprograminengineering,appliedscience,science,
geoscienceortechnology.TheRegistrationCommitteeiscurrentlyreviewingtheproposedbylaw
change.

Recommendation3 thataBridgingImplementationTaskForcebeestablishedtoreview
andrecommendprocessestofacilitatebridgingfromEngineering
(Geoscience)LicenseetoProfessionalEngineer(Geoscientist).

Recommendation3a thatBylaw11(e),RegisteredMember,bechangedtorequirethe
equivalentofgraduationfromafouryearfulltimeuniversityprogram
insteadofgraduationfromtheequivalentofafouryearfulltime
universityprogramasacademicqualificationforregistration.

Page18of72

RECOGNITIONANDPROMOTIONOFTHELIMITEDLICENCEANDENGINEERINGAND
GEOSCIENCELICENSEES

TOAUTHORITIESHAVINGJURISDICTION

TheTaskForcespentseveralmeetingsdiscussingtheacceptancebyAuthoritiesHaving
Jurisdiction(AHJs)ofaEngineeringorGeoscienceLicenseesindependentrighttopractice
professionalengineeringorprofessionalgeoscience.

ItwasapparentthatsomejurisdictionsaccepttheLimitedLicence,whileothersacceptitfor
someEngineeringorGeoscienceLicensees,butnotforothers.Arecentcaseregardingone
municipalityscontinuedrefusaltoaccepttheworkofaLicenseedespiteAPEGBCsintervention
withboththeCityandtheProvince,highlightedtheneedforAPEGBCtoworkmoreaggressively
towardsuniversalrecognitionbyAHJsofitsLicenseesindependentrighttopractice.

EightsurveyrespondentssaidthattheyhadencounteredarefusalonthepartofanAHJto
recognizetheirLicences.

Ilearnedthatmostapprovingauthoritiesfollowthe"LicencedProfessional"
definition outlined in the either the BC Building Code or the Community
Charter,andneitherincludeLimitedLicencees.SurveyRespondent
not an outright refusal just offered excuses to deflect from the issue
SurveyRespondent
(Municipality) chief building officer "We don't allow limited licence to do
thiswork"SurveyRespondent
Authorityrefusedtoacceptworkoflesscomplexityasitwasnotspecified
intheLicence.SurveyRespondent

TheTaskForceconsideredwaystoaddressthisissueincluding:
aggressivereinforcementtotheProvincialGovernmentandotherAuthoritiesHaving
JurisdictionoftherightsofEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseestopracticeprofessional
engineeringandgeoscienceswithintheirscopesofpractice
o makingthisasasellingpointinAPEGBCGovernmentRelations
referencingEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesinallAPEGBCPracticeGuidelines
includingtheDirectSupervisionGuideline
featuringEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesattheBOABCandUBCMconferences
throughpresentationsandexposureattheAPEGBCbooth;
workingwiththeMunicipalEngineersDivisiontorequestthatitfeaturesthecurrent
situationinitsnewsletter,inaseminarand/oratitsAGM;andthatitactasanadvocate
forEng.L.s.

Page19of72

 Recommendation4 thatAPEGBCimmediatelyandaggressivelyreinforcetothe
ProvincialGovernment.otherAuthoritiesHavingJurisdiction
andOthersthattheEngineersandGeoscientistsActgives
EngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesfullauthorityto
practiceprofessionalengineeringorprofessionalgeosciencein
theirscopesofpractice.

Recommendation4a thatAPEGBCreferenceEngineeringandGeoscienceLicensees
initsPracticeandOtherGuidelines,includingtheDirect
SupervisionGuideline.

TOEMPLOYERS,MEMBERSANDTHEPUBLIC

AsignificantmajorityofsurveyrespondentsfeltthatAPEGBCshouldpromotetheLimitedLicence
toemployers(73.3%),APEGBCmembers(82.2%)andAuthoritiesHavingJurisdiction(84.4%).
ManywouldrecommendLimitedLIcencetoacolleaguewithitscurrentfeatures;and,ifthe
proposedenhancementsincludingpromotionoftheLimitedLicencewereadded,almosthalf
againwouldrecommendtheLimitedLicencetoacolleague.
TheTaskForcenotedinstancesofnoninclusivewordingontheAPEGBCwebsiteandinpublic
documentsandstronglyadvisedthatitbemodifiedtobemoreinclusiveoftheLimitedLicence
andthevalueofitsholderstoAPEGBCandthepracticesofprofessionalengineeringand
geoscienceinB.C.
SuggestionsforpromotingtheLimitedLicencethatareviableandcanbeimplementedwithout
changestolegislationorpolicyare:
a. informationarticlesontheLimitedLicenceandEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesin
InnovationandConnections
b. ArticlesportrayingEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesandtheirwork
c. ContinuingtohaveEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseespresentaspartoftheDivisionof
EngineersandGeoscientistsintheResourceSectorAnnualConferencestreamandadd
presentersinotherstreams
d. FeaturingEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesaspartofEngineeringandGeoscience
Month
e. FeaturingandinvitingEng.L.andGeo.L.stoemployervisits
f. ChangingAPEGBCdocuments,jobads,etctoincludeEngineeringandGeoscience
Licensees(twoexamplesgivenweretherecentjobadforAssociateDirector,Admissions
andtheAGMsignupform);and
g. ReviewotherAPEGBCdocumentationandwebpagesfornoninclusivewordingandmake
appropriaterevisions.

Suggestionsthatmayrequirepolicychangeare:
h. EligibilityofEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesforAPEGBCandEngineers
Canada/GeoscientistsCanadaAwards
i. NamingEng.L.sand/orGeo.L.sasamemberrepresentationonAPEGBCCommitteesand
TaskForcesthatmakedecisionsaffectingEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesandon
othercommittees.

Page20of72

 Recommendation4bthatAPEGBCregularlyrefertoandincludeEngineeringand
GeoscienceLicenseesinitsdocumentation,advertising,
publicationsandactivities.

Recommendation4cthatAPEGBCcarryoutanextensivereviewofitswebsiteand
printeddocumentationwithrespecttothetermLimitedLicence
andmodifythemtobemoreinclusiveoftheLimitedLicenceand
tospeaktothevalueofitsholderstoAPEGBCandthepractices
ofprofessionalengineeringandgeoscienceinB.C..

Recommendation4dt hatAPEGBCmodifytheTermsofReferenceofitsPresidents
AwardstoincludeEngineeringandGeoscienceLicensees.

Recommendation4et hatAPEGBCmodifytheTermsofReferenceofitsCommitteesto
includeEngineeringandGeoscienceLicensees,includingthose
committeesthataffecttheentryandpracticeofEngineeringand
GeoscienceLicensees.

THETERMINOLOGYLIMITEDLICENCE

ThewordLimitedinthetermLimitedLicencewhichisdefinedintheEngineersand
GeoscientistsAct(theAct)wasfelttohaveaderogatoryperception.In2006,arecommendation
wasmadeandimplementedthatthetitlebechangedtoEngineeringLicensee(Eng.L.)or
GeoscienceLicensee(Geo.L.).TheTaskForcerequestedthatthistermbereviewedwithrespect
tothatusedinotherprovincesandprofessions:
ProfessionalLicensee(Alberta)
LimitedMember(Saskatchewan)
LimitedLicence(Ontario)
SpecialPracticePermit(LimitedLIcence)BCForestProfessionals

Recommendation4f thattheterminologyLimitedLicencebereviewedwithrespect
todesignationsissuedbyotherprovincesandthatthe
designationEngineering(Geoscience)Licensee(Eng.L.,Geo.L.)
bemaintained.

Page21of72

MEMBERSHIPRIGHTSANDPRIVILEGES
*MembershipRightsandPrivilegesequaltothoseheldbyP.Eng.andP.Geo.membersincludethe
abilitytovotea)attheAPEGBCAGM;b)inbylawballots;andc)inCouncilelections;andtorun
forapositionontheAPEGBCCouncil.

EightytwopercentofSurveyRespondentssupportedgrantingMembershipRightsandPrivileges
toEngineeringandGeoscienceLicensees.

TheTaskForcenotedthatthiswasarecommendation(Recommendation14:Thatvoting
privilegesbeextendedtoholdersofLimitedLicences,includingtherighttorunforOffice)from
the2006reportthathadnotbeenacteduponandwasnowlongoverdue.ItnotedthatAPEGGA
ProfessionalLicenseesaremembersofAPEGGAandhavetherighttovote.

Recommendation5 thatEngineeringLicenseesandGeoscienceLicenseesbeincluded
inthedefinitionofMemberatthenextopportunityforanAct
and/orBylawchange.

MOBILITY

AlthoughconsideringmobilityoftheLimitedLicencewasnotadeliverableintheTaskForces
TermsofReference,itdidreviewtheMemorandumofAgreementbetweenAPEGGAandAPEGBC
andalsoconsidered,butdidnotformallyaddressmobilityduringitsdiscussionswiththePTech
TaskForce,i.e.Howmobilitywouldwork:

IfB.C.hadonedesignation(e.g.EngineeringorGeoscienceLicensee)insteadoftwo;and

IftheindividualizedAlbertaP.Tech.scopeweresimilartotheB.C.LimitedLicencescope.

Astheissueofmobilitywasoutsideitsassignedwork,theTaskForcerecommendedthatitbe
addressedaspartoftheNationalFrameworkforLicensureproject.

Recommendation6thatAPEGBCrecommendtoitssisterregulatorybodiesthat
mobilityofLimitedLicencesandrelateddesignationsbestudied
onanationalbasis.

Page22of72

 PROFESSIONALTECHNOLOGISTREGISTRATIONANDSCOPEOFPRACTICE

TherelateddeliverableoftheTaskForceisthatit,willconsider,butnotaddress,the
ProfessionalTechnologistregistrationandscopeofpractice,asthisiswithinthemandateof
anotherTaskForceappointedbythetwoassociations.Mindfulofthis,theTaskForcediscussed
andexploredwiththePTechTaskForcetheconceptofoneLicenceforbothdesignationsduring
thejointmeetingonFebruary21(StakeholderConsultationPage8).Duringthismeeting,the
objectivesofclarityandavoidanceofdilutionand/orconfusiontoapplicants,AHJsandthe
PublicoftheroleandpurposeofanEng.L.(orGeo.L.)versusthatofaPTechwerediscussed.

TheTaskForcealsoconcluded,thatonatechnicalbasisandexclusiveofgovernanceissues,the
LimitedLicencerevitalizednewstructure(Page11)potentiallycouldserveasamechanismto
handlethePTechscope,withtheadditionoftheroutinecodesandstandardsorcodificationto
preengineered(designguide)solutionsusingthepreambleorlimitationorexclusion
parameters.

Tothisend,ittestedoneexistingscopefromapilotthatwasrunfortechnologistsproviding
electricalengineeringservicesforbuildings:

CurrentScopeWording
LicenseeBhassignedanundertakingandisthereforeauthorizedtoengageinthepracticeofProfessionalEngineeringinthe
ProvinceofBritishColumbia,withinthelimitedscopeasspecifiedhereunder:
Electricaldesignservicesforbuildingsforthefollowingareasofpractice:fireprotection,buildingmanagement,lighting,
security,communications&alarms,emergencypower,powerdistribution,powersupply,audiovisualsystemsandfurniture
systems;limitedtotheapplicationofprescriptivecodesandstandardswherethedetailedengineeringhasbeencarriedout
andaprofessionalengineerhascertifiedthatthecodesandstandardsusedareprescriptive.
Thescopelimitationstobeindicatedontheoverleafofyourcertificateareasfollows:
TheLimitedLicensee(Eng.L.)isrestrictedtoworkingatlevels25kVandunder.
Thisscopedoesnotapplytodesignservicesforindustrialprocessesandindustrialcontrols.
TheLimitedLicensee(Eng.L.)mustidentifythespecificsectionoftheprescriptivecodeorstandardbeingused.
TheapplicationofprescriptivecodesorstandardsbytheLimitedLicensee(Eng.L.)islimitedtosituationswherethe
LimitedLicensee(Eng.L.)doesnothavetoapplyinterpretiveanalysisintheapplicationoftheappropriateprescriptive
codeorstandardusedanddocumented.
Prescriptivemeansthattheoriginal,detailedengineeringhasbeencarriedout,theresultingdesignrequirementsare
presentedintherelevantreferencedcodeorstandardandthelimitstotheapplicationoftheprescriptivecodeorstandardare
identified.
CodesorStandardsincludespublisheddocumentsfromrecognizedindustrygroups,standardsassociations,technical
committees,federalagenciesordepartments,provincialagenciesordepartments,municipalities(oftenintheformofdesign
standardsreferencedinbylaws)aswellasdocumentswhicharenotformallypublishedsuchasthosedevelopedandsealedby
aprofessionalengineerforusebythespecificcorporateentityforwhichtheyweredeveloped.Alloftheabovemustbein
conformancewithgenerallyacceptedengineeringprinciples.Theapplicationofanappropriateprescriptivecodeorstandardto
onecomponentofatechnicalfunctioncarriedoutbytheLimitedLicensee(Eng.L.)doesnotpermittheLimitedLicensee
(Eng.L.)tocompleteothercomponentsofthetechnicalfunctioniftherearenottheappropriateprescriptivecodesor
standardsinplacewhichcanbereferenced.
"Building"asdefinedintheBCBuildingCode.

Page23of72

 FIGURE3POSSIBLEP.TECH.SCOPEMODELBASEDONTHEREVISEDSTRUCTURE

StandardPreamble
Namehassignedanundertakingandisthereforeauthorized
toengageinthepracticeofProfessional
Engineering/GeosciencewithintheProvinceofBritish
Columbia,inaccordancewiththeapplicationofprescriptive
codesandstandardsand/orpreengineereddesignaids,and
withinthelimitedscopeasspecifiedhereunder:

Discipline:
Ifclearandsingledisciplinepractice

FieldofPractice:
(notincludingthewordsengineeringorgeoscience)

ListofLimitations:
Limitedto:

Listof Exclusions:
(ifany)

Definitions:
(ifany)

CURRENTVSNEWFORMATSCOPECOMPARISON

CurrentScope NewFormatScope
LicenseeBhassignedanundertakingandisthereforeauthorizedtoengageinthepracticeofProfessional
(seepreviouspage)
EngineeringintheProvinceofBritishColumbia,inaccordancewiththeapplicationofprescriptivecodesand
standardsand/orpreengineereddesignaids,andwithinthelimitedscopeasspecifiedhereunder:

Discipline:ElectricalEngineering

FieldofPractice:BuildingServices

Limitedto:
Applicationsof25kVorunder
SituationswheretheLicenseedoesnothavetoapplyinterpretiveanalysisintheapplicationofthe
appropriateprescriptivecodeorstandardusedanddocumented.

Exclusion:
Designservicesforindustrialprocessesandindustrialcontrols.

Definitions:
PrescriptiveCodes&Standards
includespublisheddocumentsfromrecognizedindustrygroups,standardsassociations,technicalcommittees,
federalagenciesordepartments,provincialagenciesordepartments,municipalities(oftenintheformof
designstandardsreferencedinbylawswheretheoriginaldetailedengineeringhasbeencarriedout)anda
professionalengineerhascertifiedthatthecodesandstandardsusedareprescriptive.Theapplicationofan
appropriateprescriptivecodeorstandardtoonecomponentofatechnicalfunctioncarriedoutbytheLicensee
doesnotpermittheLicenseetocompleteothercomponentsofthetechnicalfunctioniftherearenotthe
appropriateprescriptivecodesorstandardsinplacewhichcanbereferenced.
DesignAids
includesdocumentswhicharenotformallypublished,suchasthosedevelopedandsealedbyaprofessional
engineerforusebythespecificcorporateentityforwhichtheyweredeveloped.
Building
asdefinedintheBCBuildingCode

 Recommendation7 thattheAPEGBCandASTTBCCouncilsconsidertheP.Tech.scope
structureasapossiblecomplementtotheLimitedLicence
revisedscopestructure.

DIFFERENTIATIONBETWEENLIMITEDLICENCEANDP.TECH.

Tofulfillitsdeliverableto,considertherelevantexperienceacrossCanada,theLimitedLicence
RenewalTaskForceconsideredthechallengesreportedbyAPEGGAindifferentiatingbetween
theProfessionalLicenseeandtheP.Tech.

ApplicantsfortheAlbertaP.Tech.willapplyforindividualizedscopestailoredtotheiracademic
backgroundandexperienceandthatistheroutineapplicationofindustryrecognizedcodes,
standards,proceduresandpracticesusingestablishedengineeringorapplied
scienceprinciplesandmethodsofproblemsolving.

APEGGAreportedthatthereisaconceptualdemarcationthatProfessionalLicenseescanpractice
morenovelengineeringorgeosciencethanthemoreroutinepracticeofaP.Tech,butthatthe
APEGGA/ASETJointBoardofExaminershasbeenstrugglingwiththedifferencebetweenP.Tech.
andP.L.(ProfessionalLicensee)andhowitwilldefinetheunderlinedtermsabove.

TheTaskForceexploredthischallengewiththeASTTBC/APEGBCP.Tech.TaskForcewhenthe
twogroupsmettodiscusswhetherLimitedLicencecouldhandleP.Tech.typescopesinB.C..

TheTaskForcefeelsthatclaritytothepublic,themembership,licenceholdersandAuthorities
HavingJurisdictioniskeyindevelopingvehiclesforlimitedindependentpracticeofprofessional
engineeringandgeoscienceinB.C..

Recommendation7athattheAPEGBCandASTTBCCouncilsconsiderthemeritsoftwo
limitedscopelicencesversusonewithrespecttoclaritytothe
public,membershipsandAuthoritiesHavingJurisdiction.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

TheTaskForcewishestoacknowledgetheassistanceandcontributionsofthestaffofAPEGBC,
APEGGA&ASTTBCandrespondentstothetwosurveys,withoutwhichitwouldnothavebeen
abletoaccomplishitswork.

Recommendation8 thatacopyofthisreportbesenttotheSubjectMatterExperts
andStakeholderswhoadvisedtheTaskForceandrespondedto
itssurveys.

Page25of72


BACKGROUNDMATERIAL

BackgroundmaterialusedbytheTaskForceasreferenceforitswork:

INCLUDEDINTHEAPPENDICES

AppendixAAPEGBC/ASTTBCLimitedLicenceRenewalTaskForceTermsofReference
AppendixBLimitedLicenceandTechnologistPracticeLegislationCrossCanadaScan
AppendixCSampleApprovedDefinedScopesofPracticeBC,AB,ON
AppendixDASTTBCLimitedLicenceInformalSurveyResultsDecember2010
AppendixEJanuary2011SurveyResultsAllLimitedLicensees
AppendixFResponsesToInformationRelease
AppendixGBriefingNoteonBridgingfromEng.L./Geo.L.toP.Eng./P.Geo.

OTHERBACKGROUNDMATERIAL
AvailableonRequest
ASTTBC/APEGBCPTechTaskForceTermsofReference
InformationReleaseonLimitedLicenceRenewalTaskForceandPTechTaskForceDecember
2010
LimitedLicenceTaskForceReporttoCouncilSeptember8,2006
ReporttoAPEGBCRegistrationCommitteeandAPEGGABoardofExaminersRe:Facilitating
MobilityunderAIT,TILMAandNWPTATradeAgreementsOctober31,2010
APEGGA/APEGBCMemorandumofAgreementTowardsMobilityofProfessionalLicences:
APEGBCLimitedLicenceandAPEGGAProfessionalLicenseeDecember17,2010
APEGGAandASETWebPagesexplainingProfessionalLicenseeandPTechdesignations
APEGBCLimitedLicenceScopesofPracticebyDisciplineandAreaofPractice
LimitedLicenceScopeEvaluationFlowchartAugust2006
APEGBCGuidetoDeterminingaScopeofPractice
LimitedLicenceUndertaking
APEGBCWebPagesrelatedtoLimitedLicence

Page26of72


APPENDICES

APPENDIXAAPEGBC/ASTTBCLIMITEDLICENCERENEWALTASKFORCETERMSOF
REFERENCE
TERMSOFREFERENCE(FINALOctober25,2010)

Name: APEGBC/ASTTBCLimitedLicenceRenewalTaskForce

Type: AdvisoryTaskForcereportingtoASTTBCandAPEGBCCouncils

Purpose:
ToadvisetheASTTBCandAPEGBCCouncilsonanimprovedand
moreeffectiveLimitedLicencesystem

Function/Deliverables: 1)ReviewandconsidertheReportoftheAPEGBCLimited
LicenceTaskForcedatedSept.2006
2)ReviewthecurrentexperienceinBCandsummarizewhat
workswellandwhatneedsimprovement
3)ReviewtherelevantexperienceacrossCanadaincluding
processes,designations,scopesofpracticeandlegislative
framework
4)DevelopandrecommendrefinementstotheLimitedLicence
systeminBC
5)TheworkoftheTaskForcewillconsider,butnotaddress,the
ProfessionalTechnologistregistrationandscopeofpracticeas
thisiswithinthemandateofanotherTaskForceappointedby
thetwoassociations.
Authority/Budget:
$2500formealsandtravel.
Membership: Sevenappointees,withthreemembersappointedbyeach
Associationandonelaypersonormemberofeitherassociation
appointedbyagreementoftheCouncilswhowillserveasChair.
Themembershipshallincludeonelimitedlicenseepracticing
aloneandalimitedlicenseeandprofessionalengineerpracticing
inorganizationsthatemployboth.TheTaskForcemayalsocall
uponsubjectmatterexpertsortechnologistswhobelongto
neitherassociationforinputandadvice.
TheTaskForcemembersareappointedbytheirrespective
Accountability:
CouncilsandtheTaskForcereportstobothCouncils.
TermofOffice: Appointmentswillendureuntilrecommendationshavebeen
submitted.
SelectionofOfficers:
TheChairwillbeappointedbyagreementoftheCouncils.

Quorum: 50%
FrequencyofMeetings: MeetingsatthecalloftheChair.

Timeline: ApprovalofTOROctober,2010

Page27of72

 RecommendationstothetwoCouncilsMarch2011

ConductofMeetings: TheTaskForcemaymeetinpersonand/orbytelephone
conference,webcastorotherelectroniccommunicationsmedia
whereallmembersmaysimultaneouslyheareachotherand
participateduringthemeeting.
TheTaskForcemayalsomeetbyfax,emailorotherelectronic
mediawherecommunicationmaynotbesimultaneous,provided
allmembersoftheTaskForcehaveaccesstothemedium
chosenandallcommunicationtoandfromonememberis
broadcasttoallothermembersoftheTaskForce.

APPROVEDBYAPEGBCCOUNCIL,December17,2010(CO1122)
APPROVEDBYASTTBCCOUNCIL,October26,2010

Page28of72

 APPENDIXBLIMITEDLICENCEANDTECHNOLOGISTPRACTICELEGISLATIONCROSSCANADASCAN
LimitedLicenceandTechnologistPracticeLegislationCrossCanadaScanDecember28,2010
Yukon British Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
Columbia (Eng) (Geo)
Nameof LimitedLIcence LimitedLicence ProfessionalLicensee Professional LimitedMember "specifiedscopeof LimitedLicence/ LicensedEngineering LimitedMember/
Technologist practicelicence"; LimitedEngineering Technologist/ LimitedCertificateof
Licence(s) (members of The (permisd'exercice Licensee/titulairede technologueen Registration
Association of limit) permisrestreint ingnierietitulairede
Science and (InActbutnot dingnieur permis
Engineering implementedNo (Act:October25,
Technology
Requirementsin 2010;Regulations
Professionals of
Alberta (ASET); Bylaws) underdevelopment))
will be jointly
regulated by
APEGGA and
ASET and will
have their
admission
qualifications
evaluated by the
APEGGA/ASET
Joint Board of
Examiners)

Designation(s) L.L.(Eng) Eng.L,, P.Lic. P.Tech. LimitedMember tbd LEL/PRI LET/TITP P.Geo.(Limited)or
Geo.L. (Engineering) "G.P.(membre
LimitedMember restreint)"
(Geoscience)

Page29of72

 Yukon BritishColumbia Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
(Eng) (Geo)
Legislation Engineering Act10(1)Council Professional P.Tech. Engineeringand Engineeringand LimitedLIcence LicensedEngineering Professional
ProfessionAct& maypass,alterand Licensee Engineering and G Geoscience Geoscientific Professional Technologist GeoscientistsAct&
Regulations(by amendbylawsfor: Engineering and G eoscientific ProfessionsRegulatory ProfessionsAct EngineersAct& Professional Regulations
eoscientific Professions Act
Council) theestablishment Bylaws Regulation941, EngineersAct
Professions Act Part 8, Division 3
andmonitoringof Part 7, Professional underanytermsand AmendedtoO.Reg. 7.1Councilmay
compliancewith Technologist conditionsthatthe 692/00,Section45 makeregulations
standardsof Regulation Councilmay and46 respectingthe
trainingand http://www.apegga determine establishmentofan
experience .org/About/ACT/pd engineering
requiredfor f/ProfTechRegulati technologistclassof
licensees,andthe ons2010.pdf limitedlicence,
enrolmentand includingprescribing
qualificationsfora requirementsand
limitedlicensee, qualificationsforthe
includinglimited issuanceofan
licencesforapplied engineering
science technologistclassof
technologists; limitedlicenceand
termsandconditions
Bylaw11(g)sets thatshallapplyto
outrequirements theengineering
technologistclassof
limitedlicence

Page30of72

 Yukon BritishColumbia Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
(Eng) (Geo)
Independent Yeswithinscope Yeswithinscopeof Professional P.Tech. Yeswithinscopeof ? LimitedLicence LicensedEngineering No
Practice? oflicence licence Licensee Yeswithinscopeof licenceifsole Nolimitedlicence Technologist theholdermust
Yeswithinscope licenceifsole practitioner,needs applicantsmustbe Proposed (a)provideonlythose
oflicenceifsole practitioner,needs PermittoPractice employeesofa Regulation:Yes, servicesspecifiedinthe
practitioner, PermittoPractice company.Ifthe withinscopeof certificate;
needsPermitto employerwishesto licenceneedsbut
Practice offerengineering mustalsowork (b)notprovideservices
servicestothe underaCertificateof exceptasanemployeeof
public,theemployer Authorization(CofA): theemployernamedin
mustbeaCertificate thecertificate;
ofAuthorization
holder(i.e.haveat (c)notifytheRegistrar
leastone immediatelyifheorshe
Ontariolicensed ceasestobeemployed
P.Eng.onstaff). bythenamedemployer
andreturnhisorher
certificateandtheseal
issuedtohimorher;

(d)besupervisedbya
practisingmemberor
temporarymember;

(e)notissueafinal
drawing,specification,
plan,reportorother
documentunlessthe
supervisingpractising
memberortemporary
memberhassignedand
dateditandaffixedhisor
hersealtoit

Page31of72

 Yukon British Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
Columbia (Eng) (Geo)
Scope Regulation20(a) permitsaperson Professional P.Tech. specifiedscopeof meansthecertificate LimitedLicence LicensedEngineering Practiceof
practiseengineering topractise Licensee the right to practicethatisthe issuedundertheseal Practiceof Technologist professional
intheYukon the right to independently routineapplicationof oftheassociationto professional Practiceof Geoscienceunder
professional practice engineering,
Territoryonlywithin independently industryrecognized anaturalperson engineering professional supervisionwithina
engineeringor practice Geology or
thespecificareaof codes,standards, certifyingthatthe within: engineering limitedscope
professional engineering, geophysics within a
practicedescribedin scope of practice that proceduresand holderhasbeen definitionof within:
geosciencewithin Geology or
thelimitedlicense, geophysics within is the routine practicesusing licensedtopractice limitationstatement definitionof
thescopespecified application of industry established professional limitationstatement
a defined
inthelimited individualized recognized codes, engineeringorapplied engineeringor
licence scope of practice standards, scienceprinciplesand professional
as specified by procedures and methodsofproblem geosciencewithin
the APEGGA practices using solvingasspecifiedby thescope,and
Board of established theASET/APEGGA subjecttothe
Examiners. engineering or
applied science
JointBoardof restrictions,specified

principles and Examiners. inthespecified
methods of problem scopeofpractice
solving as specified
by the
APEGGA/ASET Joint
Board of Examiners.

Citizenship n/a n/a n/a n/a ? mustbeaCanadian Proposed n/a
citizenora Regulation:
permanentresident mustbeaCanadian
ofCanada citizenora
permanentresident
ofCanada

Page32of72

 Yukon BritishColumbia Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
(Eng) (Geo)
Academic (Regulation8) (i)hasascience Professional P.Tech. tbd LimitedLicence LicensedEngineering
Requirement (a)asciencedegree degreeina Licensee atleast2yearsof 1.Fouryearscience Athreeyeardiploma Technologist
inadisciplineand disciplineand Haveatleast2 postsecondary degreefroma inengineering Proposed
fromauniversity fromauniversity yearsofpost educationacceptable universityprogram technologyora Regulation:Sameas
programapproved program secondary totheJointBoardof acceptabletoCouncil; Bachelorof forLimitedLicence
bytheBoardor approvedbythe education Examinersinareas Technologydegreein (mustbeCertified
or
Examiners;or council;or acceptabletothe thatrelateto engineering Engineering
(b)registrationasan (ii)isregisteredasan APEGGABoardof engineering,Geology technologyfroman Technologist
2.Degreeordiploma
appliedscience appliedscience Examinersin orgeophysics; institutionapproved OACETT)
technologistwitha technologistand areasthatrelate inengineeringor bytheCouncil.
degreeordiploma hasadegreeor tothepracticeof geosciencetechnology ii.Afouryear
inengineering diplomain engineering, fromaprogram honoursscience
technologyfroman engineering Geologyor acceptabletoCouncil. degreeinadiscipline
institutionapproved technologyor geophysics; Theprogrammustbe andfromauniversity
bytheBoardor geoscience approvedbythe
ofatleasttwoyears
Examiners;or technologyfrom Council.
(c)otheracademic aninstitution duration;or iii.Academic
qualifications approvedbythe qualifications
acceptabletothe councilina 3.Othereducational acceptedbythe
BoardorExaminers program preparation(minimum Councilasequivalent
approvedbythe requirementhigh toadiplomaor
council;or schoolcompletion) degreementionedin
(iii)hasother subparagraphiorii.
qualifications
acceptabletothe
council;and
(iv)hascompleted
anyexams
requiredby
council;and

Page33of72

 Yukon BritishColumbia Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
(Eng) (Geo)
Allqualifyingexperiencemustbe
Experience 8yearsof 8yearsof Haveatleast6 atleast6yearsof tbd 13yearsof Proposed
Requirement experiencecarrying experiencein yearsof experienceinareas directlyrelatedtothescopeof experiencein Regulation:
worktobeidentifiedinthe engineeringwork
outengineering engineeringor experiencein thatrelateto 11years,
restrictedlicenceandperformed acceptabletothe
worksatisfactoryto geosciencework workofan engineering,Geology includingpost
underthedirectionofa Council
theBoardof satisfactorytothe engineering, orgeophysicsthatis secondary
ProfessionalEngineeror includingtheyears
Examinersatleast2 council,the8years Geologicalor acceptabletotheJoint spentinobtaining education,
ProfessionalGeoscientist
ofwhichshallhave toincludetheyears geophysical BoardofExaminers,at thepostsecondary withatleast6

beenintheareato spentinobtaining naturethatis least2yearsofwhich academictraining yearsofthis
RefertoEducationnumber
whichthelimited thepostsecondary acceptabletothe areintheapplicants atleast1yearof experiencebeing
referencesabove:
licenseistoapply academictrainingat APEGGABoardof proposedareaand suchexperience relevant
1.(degree) underthe
leastthelast2years Examiners,at scopeofpracticeand experience
ofthe leasttwoofwhich werecompletedunder
Minimumfiveyearspostdegree supervisionand
[withinthe
experience directionofa
experiencewithin areinthedefined thesupervisionand definedscopeof
2.(diploma)Minimumeightyears personauthorized
thepracticeof scopeofpractice controlofa topractice practice]atleast
postdegreeordiploma
professional andwhichwere professionalmember professional 4ofwhichare
experience
engineeringor completedunder engineeringinthe serviceswithin
3.(highschool)Minimum15years
professional thesupervision provinceorterritory thepracticeof
ofcombinedposthighschool
geosciencetowhich andcontrolofa inCanadainwhich professional
educationandexperience theexperiencewas
thelimitedlicenceis Professional engineeringwith
toapply Member,andat
acceptabletoCouncil acquired
respecttowhich
Plus: atleastthelast2
leastoneyearof thelicenceisto
oneyearprobationaryperiod, yearsofthe
yourexperience experienceinthe applyunderthe
duringwhichtheapplicantwillbe
mustbe serviceswithinthe directsupervision
requiredtoreportregularlyto
equivalent practiceof ofaprofessional
APEGSonongoingwork
Canadian professional engineer,with
experience.Inaddition,APEGSwill
experience; engineeringwith referencesfrom
reservetherighttomonitorand respecttowhichthe
three
investigatetheapplicantspractice limitedlicenceisto professional
duringtheprobationaryperiodby apply.
engineers,all
whatevermeansitdeems atleastthelastyear
oftheexperience satisfactoryto
appropriateincludinginterviews
referredtoin PEO.
withtheapplicant,clients,
paragraph2must
superiors,andfellowworkers,
havebeenwiththe
visitstotheapplicantsworksite,
presentemployer
andexaminationofdrawings,
designs,specifications,jobfiles,
andanyotheritemsconsidered
relevanttotheapplicantsability
tofunctionasaLimitedMember
ofAPEGS.

Page34of72


Yukon British Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
Columbia (Eng) (Geo)
Practice,Law& knowledgeofthe Successful Demonstrate hasaknowledgeof SuccessfulCompletion Successful ?? Successful
EthicsRequirement Act,practiseofthe Completionof knowledgeoflaw, theActandthe ofProfessional completionofthe Successful completionofthe
professionandthese ProfessionalPractice ethicsand regulationsunderthe PracticeExamination ProfessionalPractice completionofthe ProfessionalPractice
Regulationsincluding Examinationandlaw professionalismby Act,andgeneral andlaw&Ethics Examination ProfessionalPractice Examination
theCodeofEthicsin &EthicsSeminar passingthe knowledgerelatedto Seminar Examination
ScheduleA National the
demonstratedby Professional proposedscopeof
passingoneormore Practice practiceof
examinationssetby Examination; engineering,Geology
theBoardor orgeophysics,which
Examiners hasbeen
demonstratedby
passingan
examinationforthose
purposesthatis
prescribedbytheJoint
BoardofExaminers

Page35of72

 Yukon British Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Ontario Ontario
Columbia (Eng) (Geo)
Other GoodCharacter; GoodCharacter; GoodCharacter; GoodCharacter; GoodCharacter; tbd GoodCharacter; GoodCharacter;
EnglishLanguage EnglishLanguage EnglishLanguage EnglishLanguage EnglishLanguage EnglishLanguage EnglishLanguage
Competency Competency Competency Competency Competency Competency Competency
Mobility MobilityProvision:
Provision:an anapplicantisentitled
applicantis toberegisteredasa
entitledtobe professional
registeredasa technologist
professional a)iftheapplicantisof
licenseeif goodcharacterand
(a)theapplicant reputation,and
isofgood (b)isaprofessional
characterand technologistwho,in
reputation,and respectofanother
(b)theapplicant province,
isregisteredasa (i)iseligibletoengage
professional inthepracticeof
licenseeorinan engineering,Geology
equivalent orgeophysicswithin
capacityingood thescopeofpractice
standingwitha specifiedbytheJoint
regulatedentity BoardofExaminers,
inanother and
provincethat,in (ii)isamemberin
theopinionof goodstandingwitha
theBoardof regulatedentityin
Examiners,is thatotherprovince
equivalenttothe that,intheopinionof
Association. theJointBoardof
Examiners,is
equivalenttoASET.

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APPENDIXCSAMPLEAPPROVEDDEFINEDSCOPESOFPRACTICEBC,AB,ON
SampleApprovedDefinedScopesofPracticeBC,AB,ON
APEGBCLimitedLIcence APEGGAProfessionalLicensee PEOLimitedLicence
http://www.apegga.org/image http://www.oacett.org/download
s/pdf_icon.gif s/get_certified/let/Appendix%20
B%20%20LL%20
%20Scopes%20of%20Engineerin
g%20Practice.pdf
ElectricalLighting
Provideconsultingservices,reports,detailed Designingofelectricaldistribution Thedesignofoutdoorlighting
designs,constructioninspection,project andstreetlightingsystems. systemsincludingroadwaylighting
managementandcontractadministrationservices Managinganddirectingthe andthedesignoftrafficsystems.
limitedtoelectricalsystems(600Voltsupply constructionandmaintenanceof
servicesorless)foraerodromelightingand electricaltransmission,
navigationalsystems,roadwaylightingsystems distribution,andstreetlighting
andtrafficsignals. facilities.
LimitationsandExclusions
Allsystemsspecifiedbytheapplicanttobe600
Voltsupplyservicesorless.
Hydroservicesspecifiedbytheapplicanttobe
secondaryservicesonly.
Onlygeneratorsystemsassociatedwith
AerodromeLightingtobespecifiedbythe
applicant.
MechanicalBuildingSystems
Mechanical design of HVAC, plumbing, sprinkler Design,reportingonand
system fire protection, and piped building commissioningofmechanical
services. systemsforinstitutional,industrial,
Exclusions: commercialandresidential
Water,oilorgasover150psi buildings(HVAC,plumbing
systems,medicalgassystems,fire

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 SampleApprovedDefinedScopesofPracticeBC,AB,ON
APEGBCLimitedLIcence APEGGAProfessionalLicensee PEOLimitedLicence
http://www.apegga.org/image http://www.oacett.org/download
s/pdf_icon.gif s/get_certified/let/Appendix%20
B%20%20LL%20
%20Scopes%20of%20Engineerin
g%20Practice.pdf
Steamover150psi sprinklerandhosestandpipe
Industrialsystemsandindustrialprocesspiping systemsandonsiteservices).

The design of systems governed by the Boiler
andPressureVesselSafetyAct.
ForFireprotection,thewatersupplymustbe
capableofmeetingthesuppressionsystem
demandswithouttheuseofaboosterpump.




CivilMunicipal
ProfessionalEngineeringwithinthecivildiscipline, Managing,reportinganddirecting Advising,reporting,designing,and
limitedto:provisionofcivilinfrastructure(roads thedevelopment,construction, constructionsupervisionassociated
andservices)requiredfordevelopmentof maintenanceandoperationof withmunicipalroadsandstorm
residential,lightcommercialandindustrialareas, civil/municipalengineeringworks. drainageworks.
allinaccordancewithstandardmunicipal Designofearthwork,urbanand
requirements,withthefollowinglimitations: ruralroadwayimprovements,
watersupply,treatmentand
1. Thedesignofurbanroads,parkinglots, distributionsystems,wastewater
stormandsanitarygravitysewers,sanitary collection,treatmentanddisposal
forcemains,watermains,sitegrading,and systems.
stormwaterdetentionandsiltationcontrol
facilities,allinaccordancewithstandard

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 SampleApprovedDefinedScopesofPracticeBC,AB,ON
APEGBCLimitedLIcence APEGGAProfessionalLicensee PEOLimitedLicence
http://www.apegga.org/image http://www.oacett.org/download
s/pdf_icon.gif s/get_certified/let/Appendix%20
B%20%20LL%20
%20Scopes%20of%20Engineerin
g%20Practice.pdf
designcriteriacommonlyprescribedin
standardmunicipalrequirements.
2. Conceptualdesignandperformance
requirementsforsanitarypumpstations,as
necessaryfortheprovisionofdetaileddesign
drawingsandspecificationstypically
providedbytheappropriateequipment
suppliers,allinaccordancewithstandard
municipalrequirements.
3. Issuanceoftechnicalspecificationsand
contractdocumentsasnecessaryforthe
tenderingandconstructionoftheabove
describedinfrastructure.
4. Administrationofconstructioncontractsfor
theabovedescribedinfrastructure,including
monitoringofconstructionforadherenceto
thecontractdocuments.

ElectricalGeneration&Distribution
Design and review protection and control Reportingon,advisingon,
systemsandassociatedelectricalequipment evaluating,designing,preparing
for electrical generation plants and related plansandspecificationsfor,or

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 SampleApprovedDefinedScopesofPracticeBC,AB,ON
APEGBCLimitedLIcence APEGGAProfessionalLicensee PEOLimitedLicence
http://www.apegga.org/image http://www.oacett.org/download
s/pdf_icon.gif s/get_certified/let/Appendix%20
B%20%20LL%20
%20Scopes%20of%20Engineerin
g%20Practice.pdf
service buildings; direct and approve the directingthe
construction, commissioning, and construction,technicalinspection,
maintenance of same equipment. All work repair,maintenanceandoperation,
must comply with applicable codes and ofelectricalequipment,protection,
standards and adhere to accepted controlanddistributionsystems.
engineeringpractice.

Withthefollowinglimitations:

Limited to protection and control systems
and associated electrical equipment within
thefieldofelectricalpowergeneration.The
maximum individual generator size shall be
limited to 550 MVA and the maximum
system voltage under which the protection
andcontrolsystemsoperateshallbelimited
to500KV.

Page40of72

APPENDIXDASTTBCLIMITEDLICENCEINFORMALSURVEYRESULTSDECEMBER
2010

ApplicationProcess
1. Myapplicationwasover15yearsago,soImsureithaschanged
2. Theapplicationprocesswasfairlysimplebackatthebeginning.WhatIfoundincrediblydifficult
wasthereviewprocessandtiming.Thefirstapplicationrequiredaboutayeartoprocess.The
secondapplicationrequired3yearsplustoprocessthroughmultiplerejectionsbyAPEGBC,
changingstaffpositions,changingreviewersandlostapplications.
Itcouldbeappropriatetohaveacentralprocessinwhichtheapplicationishandledjointlyand
informationsharedinacollaborativeprocess,andtheapplicantispartoftheprocess,rather
thanbeingkeptinthedark.
3. Newprocesssoitwasalearnasyougoformeandtheassociation.Perhapsthescopeof
practiceisclearernowbutatthetime,Ireallydidntknowwhereweweregoing.
4. FromtalkingwithAScTmembersaskingaboutobtainingaLimitedLicence,Ithinkthebiggest
hurdleforthemnotapplyingisgatheringalltheinformationrequiredtosatisfytheapplication
submission(especiallyiftheapplicantwasntanticipatingapplyingforaLimitedLicence).
However,Ibelievetherequirementsarenecessarytoensuretheapplicanthastheexperience
requiredtomeetthecriteriaforaLimitedLicence.
5. WhenIappliedinthemid1990'sittookalmost2yearstohavetheapplicationcompleted.I
expectthattheprocesshasbeenstreamlinedsincethen.Althoughmycolleagueswhoare
interestedingettingtheirLimitedLicenceappeartoshyawaywhentheyreviewtheapplication
procedures.Manyshowinterestbutnonefollowthrough.
6. Thiswasratherextended,about18monthsasIrecall.
7. Fromapplicationsubmissiontoreceivingmylicencetook14months,soitwasnotastreamlined
process
8. Theapplicationprocesswaslonganddrawnout,butatthetimeIwasoneofearlyapplicants.
Oneinterestingpartoftheapplicationwasthatyouhadtolistworkandprojectswhere
demonstratedthatyouwerepracticingengineering.Ifyouwereinfactpracticingengineering,
youwouldbeinviolationoftheEngineeringAct.
InterviewProcess
1. Myapplicationwasover15yearsago,soImsureithaschanged
2. Theinterviewprocessthefirstgoroundwasfairlysimpleanddidnotresultinanysurprises.
ThesecondinterviewforamendmentlastyearwasheldatAPEGBCofficeswithtwo
interviewers,andwasinteractiveandeffective.Thisinterviewwasinpartduetomyinsistence
onworkingwiththeinterviewerstoagreeonascope,anyrevisionsrequired,andtowalkaway
withanagreementinprincipal.Thiswascriticaltothesuccess,becauseatthispoint,itwas
agreedweweremovingforwardwithaLimitedLicenseofsomeapplicablewording.
3. PanelReview:
Hell..Spanishinquisitiontherewerenotermsofreferencefortheinterview.IfeltlikeIwas
beingattacked.Itheapproachwasnottoelicittheexpertiseoftheapplicantbuttofind
deficienciestoexploit.ItactuallygotothepointwhereIsaid,Ifyouneedtobeanexpertto
getanLL,wemayaswellendtheinterviewnow.Idonotclaimtobeanexpertinthefield.Ido
notbelievemostP.Engsareexpertintheirrespectivedisciplinebuttheyareexpectedto
practiceatacompetentprofessionallevel.IbelieveIpracticeatacompetentprofessionallevel
commensuratewiththatexpectedofaP.Engs.Ithinkatthatpointthepanelrealizedhow
aggressivetheywerebecoming.Therestoftheinterviewwentfine.
Theonsiteinterviewwasfine.Theintervieweractuallyknewmewell,wasfamiliarwiththe
workofouragencyandwasfamiliarwithmywork.
4. FromwhatIcanremembertheinitialmeetingwassomewhatgeneral.Ihadnumeroussamples
ofmydesigndrawingseverythingfromatownhousesitetoa100+singlefamilysubdivisionbut
theinterviewdidntgointotoomuchdetailonthedesignphilosophy.Thesecondpeerreview

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 meetingattheAPEGofficewasmorecomprehensiveaskingspecificquestionsondesignwhichI
believeisessential.
5. Ididnotfindtheinterviewprocesstobeanyproblem.
6. Quitepleasant,theengineerwhoconductedtheinterviewhandledthewholethingwithlittle
pressure.
7. Theinterviewerwasintheofficeforbetterpartofaday.Hewascongenialandmadethe
interviewanotunpleasantexperience.
8. Theinitialinterviewwascarriedoutbyastaffmember,ageneralmechanicalengineerandtwo
fireprotectionengineers.AsIunderstandit,thisinterviewwastodeterminethesuitabilityof
theapplicantforalimitedlicense.IknowoneofthefireprotectionengineersaspartoftheBC
fireprotectioncommunityandtheotherfireprotectionengineerwasworkingformeasa
contractEngineerofRecord.Therewerenoissueswiththefacetofaceinterview.Afterthe
interview,theinterviewteamhadtoreviewandmodifythescopeofpractice.Theresulting
changestothescopeofpracticebytheinterviewteamresultedinascopeofpracticethatwas
notworkableandverylimited.
Attheonsiteinterview,adifferentlocalfireprotectionengineercarriedoutthisinterviewto
reviewthesuitabilityoftheapplicantsaccesstocodes&standards,filingsystem,designreview
processandtoalsoreviewtherevisedscope.Asaresultofthereviewoftherevisedscope,the
intervieweralsoagreedthattherevisedscopestatementwasunworkableandverylimited.As
aresultIworkedwiththeinterviewertoreworkthescopestatementtosomethingthatwas
mutuallyagreeable.Thiswassubsequentlyfinalrevisiontothescopestatementapprovedby
APEGBC.
Thepracticereviewwasinitiallycostly,butbecauseoftheshortamountoftimeused,partof
thefeewasreturned.Theinterviewforthepracticereviewwasalsoaretiredbuildingcode
engineerwhohadnoworkingconnectionorpossibleconflictwiththepersonthatwasbeing
interviewed.

ScopeofPractice,itsdeterminationandsubsequentmodification
1. APEGBCwasverystrictonthescope.IhadtoproveIwasanexpertinthescopeofpractice.
2. Myfirstscopewasamomentofelation,andyearsoffrustration.Poorandinconsistentwording
ledtointerpretations,whichcausefurtherconfusion.Thelackofguidelinesoninterpretation
alsoresultedinfrustrationtothepoint,thatIwasinadisciplinaryreview,whichresultedinthe
recommendationofnowrongdoing,butanewscopetocorrecttheinconsistencies.Theeffort
toseekanewlicencewordingresultedin3reviewpanelsrejectingthewordingwitha
recommendationtorestarttheprocess.Iwasexcludedfromtheprocessandwastedmuch
time,aswellasresourcesatAPEGBCtorestarttheprocess,andfinallyendupinameetingto
reviewandreworkasscopeacceptabletoall.
Theideaofaprivateprocessisinadequate.Theonlywaytohaveinformationreturnedwas
throughFreedomofInformationrequests,causingalotofconsternation.Thisprocessrequires
participationbytheapplicationinconjunctionwiththeassociationatallsteps.
3. Therereallywasntalotofbackandforth.MypurposeforgettingtheLLwastokeepmyjobas
itwasaconditionofhire.Noonereallycaredwhatthescopeactuallysaid.Iactuallythink
definingthescopeisreallymoreproblematicthatitisworth.WithanyothermemberofAPEG
itisuptotheindividualtoselfassesstheirownscopeandnotworkoutsideofitsubjectto
disciplinaryactions.Really,Idontseewhythesameresponsibilitycannotbeplacedon
Licensees.Theassessmentshouldconsiderthelicenseesabilitytorecognizetheirown
limitations.AfteralltheprocesstogetanLLreallyonlyattractsthebestcandidates.
4. Ithinktheprocessofdeterminingthelimitationswasreasonable.IunderstandtheAssociations
concernwithbeingtoogeneralandwantingthelimitationsbeingspecific.
5. IwasthefirsttoapplyinxxxengineeringandIreceivedaverybroadlicence.Iunderstandthat
theyaremuchmorerestrictivenow.IthinkaLicenceshouldbeasbroadasyourdemonstrated
experienceallows.
6. Thiswas,perhaps,theonlyareaIwouldliketohavemodified.Ididn'ttakesufficientcarein

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 reviewingasmallpartofthescopewritenbymyinterviewer.Thishascausedproblemsoverthe
years,butseemstohavebeentoocomplicatedtorevise.
Idothinkthat,havingsubscibedtotheCodeofEthicswhereIundertakenottopracticeinany
areawithwhichIamnotexperienced,thattheScopeofPracticeisrathersuperfluous.
7. Nothavingatemplatetoworkfrom,Imademyscopeofpracticeintoaratherlengthy
description.ThatresultedinafairlyverbosedescriptionhavingtobeattachedtoanythingI
signed.Afterwardsitwasmyunderstandingthatrevisingthedescriptioncouldresultinanother
reviewprocess,soIleftitasis.
8. Thescopeofpracticeisthemostcriticalissue,sinceitsdeterminationdefinesthelicense.As
notedinitem2above,thereappearedtobedirectionfromAPEGBCtomakethescopesof
practiceverylimited.
Thewholeconceptofthescopeofpracticeisadifficultissuetoframe.Whilemyscopeisvery
broadrelatedtoonlyelectricalgeneratingplantsandsubstations,otherarerestrictedinthesize
ofbuildingthatfireprotectioncanbedesignedfor.
RichardFroesehadthefirstLLinfireprotectionbuthisscopewassorestrictedthathegaveto
up.HewasabletoobtainanAlbertaLLscopethatwasbroadandworkable.
Inmyopiniontherestrictiononscopearenotaboutthepersonsabilityoreducationbutthedrive
restricttheLLeffectiveness.
DuringaprevioustaskforcemeetingIaskedaboutthescopelimitationsandgotaninteresting
reply.Myscopecoverssubstation,generatingplantandservicebuildingfireprotection.Ifasked
whattypeoffireextinguishershouldbeusedinanelectricalroominoneofourofficebuildings,I
wastoldthatsinceitwasoutsidemyscope,Imustnotanswerthequestionsinceitwouldviolate
myscope.IaminsteadtoreferittoanengineerorinthelongtermIamtohavemyscope
adjusted.Isuggestedtypicalrequestslikethiswerenotengineering,butwasadvisedthatsinceI
amanEng.L.Ihavetoaccepttheserestrictions.AsEng.L.swecanapplyoursealwhichmayor
maynotacceptedbytheauthorityhavingjurisdictionontheplusside,butIalsomustnotanswer
simplefireprotectionrelatedrequestsduetothescoperestrictions???!!
ThewholeareaoftheinterpretationofscopestatementsisanareathatAPEGBChasnot
realisticallyconsidered.Isitgoingtobeallaboutafterthefactnegativeinterpretations?
StampandcommunicationofL.Eng.status
1. Good
2. Noproblemshereotherthatdealingwithgoverningagenciesontheirlackofunderstanding.
TheL.Eng.statusfallsoutsideofunderstanding,hencethebackupplanofgovernmentisdo
nothing.Thiscancreatefurtherdelays.Alsowordingofthescopecancreatetheneedfor
clarification,andwithoutaninformedrepresentationatAPEGBCcancausemisinformationtobe
provided.
3. Neverusedit.TherereallyisnocommunicationonL.Eng.status.Andwhatlittlethereis,seems
tostilltreatitassubstandard.However,Ireallycantgiveyouaconcreteexampleofthis,so
maybemyviewpointismisplaced.
4. Wouldprefertohaveasimilar(circular)stampbecausewearereasonableforthedesignjustas
ifwewereaProfessionalEngineersbutagainIunderstandtheAssociationsdesiretodistinguish
betweenaP.Eng.andaEng.L.WhatIhavefoundisevensomeengineersdonotknowwhatthe
Eng.L.designationis,whichisunfortunate.
5. ThedesignationisEng.L.notL.Eng.Theoriginalissuedstampwaswaytoolarge.Theyhave
sincecorrectedthat.Thestampisnowbeingacceptedbymostorganizations.Althoughthere
areafewthatstillquestionitsuse.(BCHydroforone).
6. WhenIappliedformyLicence,theactualnametobeusedwasunderdiscussionandtooksome
timetoberesolved.
TheinitialstampthatwasissuedbyAPEGBCwastoolargetofittheBuildingCodeformsto
whichithadtobeapplied!Thishassincebeencorrected.
8. Thelasttaskforcedidsomegoodworkinthearea.Ithinkthatbasedonxxxsproblemswith
theyyy,theyhavetotakepositivestepstochangereferencesincodesortoprovidea
clarificationintheEngineeringActthatthetermProfessionalEngineermeansalimited

Page43of72

 licensee.
Costsapplication,annualandpracticereview
1. Notapplicableasmycompanypaidthetotalcosts.
2. Costsaregenerallynotanissue,exceptwhenthecostisassociatedwithpurportedlypayinga
volunteer.However,itisaprivilegetobeprovidedaLimitedLicense,soIdounderstandwe
havetobaresomeofthecosts.Ihaveyettogothroughanannualorpracticereviewduetothe
processinvolvedinmerescoping.However,myexperienceswouldsuggestthatagreaterlevel
ofopennessandparticipationandcooperationarerequired.
3. CostsareprobablyfairIbelieveithavingtopaymyway.Dualmembershipdoesallowfor
reducedASTTfeeswhichIappreciate.ItwouldbeniceifAPEGalsogavealittlebreakaswell.
Practicereviewhaventdoneityet.Itgivesmealittleanxietygivemyfirsttrial.Iworkwitha
lotofengineersthatcarryoutthesamefunctionandjobdutiesasIdo,yet,whetherornotthey
arepracticingengineeringandreviewoftheirscopenevercomesintoquestion.Iguessthe
higherlevelofscrutinycomeswiththeterritory.
4. Reasonable
5. AlthoughIhavecompletedthemandatorypracticereviewandfoundtheexperienceacceptable
andconfirmedthatmyworkwaswithintheLicenceissued.Idonotthinkthatitshouldbe
mandatoryforallEng.L's.at5years.P.Eng'saresubjecttoarandomselectionandthisshould
alsobethecaseforEng.L's.Myemployershavecoveredallofmycostsassociatedwithgetting
andretainingmyLicence.
6. Thetotalcostoftheapplicationwasaround$2000.00.Licenceesaretheonlyclassofmembers
ofAPEGBCwhohavetopaythecostofPracticeReview.Thecostofthereviewwasalittleless
than$2000.00butIthinkthisisnotfare.
7. Thecostoftheapplicationwas$2,000;notasmallsum.Ihavehadonepracticereviewwhich
wasfairlyandprofessionallydone,withsomeconstructivecommentsattheoutcome.
8. Thesearenotamajorissue.
Acceptanceornotbyothers...Pleaseonlycitespecificexamples
1. MyemployeracceptedtheLimitedLicenseandthefactthatIcouldbeaEOR.Ithasallowedme
toprogressthroughthemanagementranks.Withoutthelicence,itwouldnothavehappened.
2. Ihavehadmanycasesofthegovernmentaskingforclarificationastheyareunwillingto
interpretandrelyontheexactwordingandanydifferenceisuptotheindividualtosortout.
3. Idontknowthattherereallyisanydifference.
4. ThexxxxofxxxxxacceptstheEng.L.designationassatisfyingtheP.Eng.requirementfor
requiredqualificationsforjobpositionsaswellassealingdesigndrawings.
5. Asindicatedabove,somestaffatxxxxhasquestionedwhetheraLimitedLicenceinthexxx
disciplineallowstheholdertosealandtakeresponsibilityforthexxxdesignofxxxxxwork(not
thexxxxxdesignxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx).
6. IliveinasmalltownandhadanextablishedreputationbeforegainingmyLicenceIhadno
problemwithacceptance.
EarlieronIspentsometimeeducatingclientsandotherauthoritiesonwhattheL.Eng
designationmeant.
7. TheEng.L.designationhasbeenuniversallyaccepted,withoutexception.Ihavenothadany
timewhereanauthorityhasquestionedthedesignation.
8. IhavenothadanyissueswithacceptancewithinBCHydroorwithclientsinCanada,theUSor
Australia.ItisalsointerestingtonotethatintheUSandAustraliathereisnotthefocusof
ProfessionalEngineers.Theyaremoreimpressedbyexperienceandknowledge.Interestingly
inworkonfireprotectionforUSnuclearpowerplantsyoudonothavetobearegistered
professionalengineer.
TheissueappearstobethatLLsarenotrecognizedbyallAHJs.Thiscanbearesultofthe
specificreferencestoprofessionalsincodesandstandardsdonotcoverLLs,APEGBCisnot
changingtheiracttocoverLLsasrecognizedprofessionals,andtheLLindicationisnotwill
recognizedwithintheEngineeringandbuildingauthoritiescommunities.

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GeneralrecommendationstotheASTTCTeam
1. Isthissomethingmembersareinterestedin?Frommyexperienceofobservingothers,itisalot
ofwork.SeveralpotentialL.EngdecidedtogothefullP.Engrouteandintheendwasafar
betterdecisionastherearemoreoptions.
2. ItisimportanttounderstandthattheLimitedLicenseisanimportantstepinselfrecognitionof
notonlyexperience,buttheabilitytofurthertheappliedsciencebeyondtheroutine
technologistrollandoneintograspingtheprofessionalliabilitythatgoeswiththedecision
process.ItisagreatresponsibilitytobeacceptedasaL.Eng.asyoureffortsmusttypicallybe
betterthanaP.Eng,andyourecognizethatyouwillbequestionedatallturns.Youarea
representativeofASTTBCandalltechnologistssoahighstandardmustbemaintainedforthe
integrityofASTTBCandAPEGBC,andassuch,itisnotastandardrouteofprogression,but
ratheranopportunityforthosewhohavedemonstratedgoodpracticeandadvancedskillsin
theirworklife.
3. Ihadhopedwewouldhaveamalgamated.Ithinkitwouldhavebeenbetterforall.Ithink
havingonefootinthedoorandonefootout,LLswillalwaysremainasthecousinnoonewants
totalkabout.
4. IbelievetheASTTCTeamhasworkedhardfortheirmembersandspendmanyhoursof
discussionswithAPEGforthemtorecognizetheLimitedLicencedesignation,whichIappreciate
asitallowedmetomoveforwardincareeropportunities.
5. BemoreproactiveinencouragingASTTmemberstoapplyforandacceptresponsibilityforthe
worktheydo.
7. IwholeheartedlyrecommendthosewhoqualifytoobtaintheirLimitedLicence.Ithasallowed
metobetterservemyclients,andtobecomemoreresponsibleformywork.
SuggestionstoAPEGBConhowbettertoservethepublicinterestthroughtheLimitedLicence
1. None
2. IdonotbelieveitisuptoAPEGBCtoservethepublicinterestinsofarastheLimitedLicence
process.Rather,itisuptobothassociationsworkingwiththoseparticularindividualstoensure
ahigherstandard,andmaintainanopennesstoworkingtogether.
3. Weneedtoeveryoneembraceandremovebarriersforpersonaldevelopmentandopportunity.
IdontthinkwecanmakeAPEGembracetheLL.Thisissomethingthattheytorecognize
themselvesi.e.becomeinclusiveversusexclusive.
4. ItwouldbeniceifmembersknewwhattheEng.L.designationwas.WhenIexplainittosome
engineerstheyrecognizeitissimilartotheirlimitationsasaP.Eng.itjustisntwrittendown
onwhattheyareallowedtopractice.
5. Thesystemisworking,bothassociationsshouldbemoreproactiveinpromotingthismethodof
careerdevelopment.
LicenseesshouldbeabletovoteasfullmembersoftheAssociation.Theyplayanimportantrole
intheengineeringteam.
6. LicenceespresentlyhavetobecomemembersofAPEGBC.APEGBCneedstotreatthemasfull
membersuntillsuchtimeasASTTBCobtainspracticerights.
8. APEGBChastocomeupwithapolicyonlimitsofscopestatements.Inthepastthescopes
statementhavebeensorestrictivetheyareoflowvalue.Albertahasallowedbroadworkable
scopes.Wehavetopushforworkablescopesthatareuniversallyrecognized.

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Other?
1. L.EngsarenotmembersofAPEGBCandhavenovoting,etcrights.Weshouldhaveequalrights
asaP.Engaswehavethesamerolesandresponsibilities.
2. IwouldbemorethanwillingtoassistASTTBCinanyofthisprocessorothercommitteesthey
haveasyoumoveforward
3. GoodluckblendingmycommentsbutIdothinktheypaintanaccuratepictureofmy
experience.
4. TheopportunityformetoobtainaLimitedLicenceallowedmetobepromotedtoaManagerial
positionwhichwouldnothavebeenthecasewiththeAScTdesignation.
5. GoodluckinconvincingthemajorityofAPEGBCmembersthattheteamsystemwillworkandis
heretostay.Employerswheretheyhavemembersfrombothassociationseethebenefitbut
othersdonot.Iforonexxxxxxxxateamof95staffwheretherewereequalnumbersof
membersfrombothAPEGBCandASTTBC.
6. PerhapsinitialapplicantscreeningbyASTTBCwouldhelpspeeduptheprocessandkeep
ASTTBCmoreinthepicture.

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APPENDIXEJANUARY2011SURVEYRESULTSALLLIMITEDLICENSEES

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APPENDIXFRESPONSESTOINFORMATIONRELEASE

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From: GREG AND JAMES BALCHIN [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 2:08 PM
To: Derek Doyle
Subject: PTech

The development of the "PTech" designation seems to imply that there is no difference between
an AScT and CTech certification.I have worked with two employers now who use the AScT
designation as a requirement in there job descriptions, but they almost exclusively hire tradesmen
who have " equivalent background work experience" instead.It seems that there is a grey area in
the use of our designations and certifications by employers in there job descriptions.
The certification process should be revised to protect us from this type of misuse.Blurring the
lines between Technician and Technologist designations is placing us on the same slippery slope
that APEG wishes to avoid .

Yours sincerely , Greg Balchin AScT

From: Colwyn Sunderland [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:41 AM
To: X (ASTTBC) John Leech; Derek Doyle
Subject: PTech task force

JohnandDerek,

IjustreceivedtodaysjointinformationreleaseontheLimitedLicenseandPTechtaskorces.I
havebeenfollowingthedevelopmentofthePTechdesignationinparticularwithinterest,and
amencouragedthatthetwoassociationswillbeworkingtogethertodeveloprecommendations
toyourrespectiveCouncils.Inmyexperienceworkingalongsideengineersandother
technologistsandtechniciansingovernment,manufacturingandconsulting,andinleadershipof
theBritishColumbiaWaterandWasteAssociation,Icanseemanywaysinwhichawelldefined
andagreedscopeofprofessionalpracticefortechnologistsandtechnicianswouldaddsignificant
valueforemployersandthepublic.Thiscanonlybeachievedifengineersandtechnologistsand
ourrespectiveassociationscanagreeonreasonableboundaries,supportedbylegislationand
clearguidelines.

LetmeknowifthereisanythingIcandotosupporttheworkofthejointtaskforce.

Regards,

ColwynSunderland,AScT
LocalServicesEngineeringCoordinator
InfrastructureEngineeringDivision
IntegratedWaterServicesDepartment
CapitalRegionalDistrict

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APPENDIXGBRIEFINGNOTEONBRIDGINGFROMENG.L./GEO.L.TO
P.ENG./P.GEO.
BRIDGING/LADDERINGFROMENG.L.TOP.ENG.(GEO.LTOP.GEO.)
Otherjurisdictionsandprofessionswhohouseengineersandtechnologistsunderoneorganizationwere
researched(,EngineersAustralia,EngineersNewZealand,EngineeringCouncilofSouthAfrica,AIBC,
ABCFP).Onlythreeofthesehavearoutetoqualificationforcandidatesthatcanbeconstruedas
bridging.Alllisttheacademicandexperience/competencyrequirementsforeachgradeofmembership
separately.Itshouldbenotedthatbothacademicandexperience/competencyrequirementsdifferfor
differentgradesofmembership.
i. TheAIBChasaRAICSyllabusProgramthattypicallytakes5yearstocompleteandcanbe
followedinlieuofobtaininganaccrediteddegreeinarchitecture.Allarchitectsarealsorequired
towriteanationalexaminationinadditiontoacademicandexperiencerequirements.
ii. TheEngineeringCouncilofSouthAfricahasanacademicbridgeprogramforthosewith
technologydiplomas.Candidatesmusthave10yearsprofessionalengineeringexperienceatthelevel
ofcompetenceandresponsibilityexpectedofaprofessionalengineeraftergraduation.Plusan
appropriatelystructuredportfolioofengineeringscienceexaminationsfrom3rdand4thyearmodulesofa
fouryeardegreeprogramatafacultyofengineeringwhoseprogramsareaccreditedbyECSA..
SeeAppendixAattheendofthisdocumentforadescription.
iii. TheInstitutionofEngineeringandTechnologyUK(formerlytheInstitutionofElectricaland
ElectronicEngineers)hasanupgradingprogramfromTechniciantoCharteredEngineer.
http://www.theiet.org/membership/manage/transfer/index.cfmand
http://www.theiet.org/membership/types/designatoryletters/mietqande.cfm
APEGBCExperience
APEGBChasnoformalizedbridgingprograminplaceformovementtoprofessionalengineerstatusfrom
Eng.L.status..
CurrentBridgingProgramsAcademic
Therearetwobridgingprogramscurrentlyinplace
CamosunCollegeEngineeringBridgeProgram(fulltimebridgetofulltimeengineeringprogram)
http://engbridge.camosun.bc.ca/
BCITB.Tech.inElectronicsEngineeringparttimeacceptedbyAPEGBCasmeetingacademic
requirementsforregistrationthroughtheElectricaldiscipline,aftersuccessfulcompletionofa
minimumof3ElectricalconfirmatoryexaminationsfromtheAPEGBCsyllabus,ortheU.S.
FundamentalofEngineeringexamination.Seehttp://www.bcit.ca/study/programs/8900btech

PastOneTimeBridgingModel
APEGBChadaonetimebridgingmodelformaturepractitionerswhohadTechnologyDiplomasinNaval
ArchitectureandMarineEngineering.ApplicantshadtoprovebroadbasedexperienceinNaval
ArchitectureorMarineEngineeringinaccordancewithdisciplinespecificcriteriathatwerebasedon
APEGBCsSatisfactoryEngineeringExperienceGuidelines.
ApplicantsalsohadtowriteandpasstheequivalentoftheU.S.PrinciplesandPracticeofProfessional
EngineeringExaminationinthesedisciplinesandhadtoattendanoralexaminationinwhichthey
presentedandwereexaminedonaprojectdesignreportwhichtheyhadsolelyauthored.
ProposedBridgingModelAlternatives
1. Academic

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 Establishthestandardizedroutetofulfilmentofsyllabusrequirementsbasedona
baselineofaBCIT2yearDiplomainTechnology.
establish2ormoreroutestocompletionofrequirements:
o AscertaininterestlevelsinpursuingpartbridgeprogramstoP.Eng.fromEng.Ls
andAScTs.
o AllowpreapplicationanalysisofacademicrequirementsforEng.LsandGeo.L.s.
o AllowwritingofAPEGBCacademicexaminationspriortoapplyingforPEngstatus
forEngineeringandGeoscienceLicenseesonly.
o AskBCITBEngCivil,ElectricalandMechanicalB.Eng.programstoidentifythe
additionalcoursestheyareabletoofferonaparttimebasistoaminimum
volumeofstudentsinordertobridgebetweentheDiplomaandBEnglevel
requirements.
o EstablishcourseequivalenciesatBCITforsyllabusrequirementsinCivil,Electrical
andMechanical
o EstablishcourseequivalenciesfromMastersprogramsofferedatBCUniversities
andinstitutions(e.g.UBCMastersinEngineeringcourses)
2. Experience/Competency
UseAPEGBCcompetencybasedexperienceassessmenttoevaluateexperienceforP.Eng.
inaccordancewithAPEGBCCompetencyFramework.
IndicatorsareestablishedforCivil/MunicipalInfrastructureandElectricalPowerand
Industrial
BasedoninterestlevelsfromEng.L.,Geo.L.andAScTsdevelopindicatorsforfieldsorr
practiceasjustified,ifnotalreadydeveloped.
APEGBCBylawChange
CurrentlytoapplyforP.Eng.status,APEGBCBylawsstatethatanapplicantmusthavegraduatedfroma
fouryearprograminengineering,appliedscience,geosciencetechnologyorscience.
Aminorbutsignificantchange(seeredtextbelow)toAPEGBCBylawwordingisneededtoallowfor
flexibilityinacademicbridgingoptions,i.e.
Registeredmembers
11(e)Registrationasamemberoftheassociationshallbegrantedtoanapplicantwhohassatisfiedallthe
requirementsintheActandsubmittedevidence,intheapprovedformat,satisfactorytothecouncil,thatthe
applicant:
(1)(a)hasgraduated:
(a)inappliedscience,engineeringorgeosciencefromaninstituteoflearningapprovedbythecouncilina
programapprovedbythecouncil;or
(b)withhastheequivalentof:
(i)auniversitylevelbachelorsdegreeinappliedscienceorengineering,fromaninstitutionoflearningnot
approvedbythecouncil,orinaprogramnotapprovedbythecouncil,buthaspassed:
(A)examinations,assignedbythecouncilfromthesyllabuspublishedbythecouncil,inthedisciplineof
engineeringoftheapplicantsdegree,thatdemonstratestheapplicantsknowledgeisequivalenttothe
knowledgeofthosewhohavegraduatedfromaninstituteoflearningapprovedbythecouncilina
programinappliedscienceorengineeringapprovedbythecouncil;or
(B)examinations,requiringspecialknowledgeinbranchesoflearningspecifiedbythecouncil,ofan
associationorinstituteapprovedbythecouncil;or
(ii)4yearsoffulltimepostsecondaryeducationinappliedscience,engineering,geoscience,science,or
technology,andhasdemonstratedequivalencytograduationfromaninstituteoflearningapprovedbythe
councilinaprograminappliedscience,engineeringorgeoscienceapprovedbythecouncil,bypassingthe
councilassigned:
(A)examinationsorcourseworkfromthesyllabus,publishedbythecouncil,applicabletothedisciplinein
whichtheapplicantwishestobeexamined,toaddressdeficienciesinsyllabusoverageasdetermined
bythecouncil;or

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 (B)examinations,requiringspecialknowledgeinbranchesoflearningspecifiedbythecouncil,ofan
associationorinstituteapprovedbythecouncil;

CrossReferencesforOtherJurisdictionsandProfessions
EngineeringCouncilofSouthAfricahttp://www.ecsa.co.za/index.asp?x=procedure
EngineersNewZealandhttp://www.ipenz.org.nz/ipenz/join/class_guide3.cfm
EngineersAustraliahttp://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/ieaust/index.cfm?BA30FA789D5B
C69CA12273EA505152C0

AppendixAEngineeringCouncilofSouthAfricaAlternateRoutetoRegistration.
Applicants whose qualifications are not recognised are considered "alternative route
candidates" and are required to follow the Alternative Route as set out below.
Requirements

1. An applicant must meet the following prerequisites before ECSA will admit an applicant to
this route:

(a) The applicant must have an engineering academic qualification at least equivalent
to an accredited National Diploma.
(b) The applicant must have at least 10 years professional engineering experience at
the level of competence and responsibility expected of a professional engineer after
graduation.

2. Once admitted to follow the alternate route the candidate must pass an appropriately
structured portfolio of engineering science examinations at any faculty of engineering
whose programmes are accredited by ECSA. The portfolio must be selected from third
and fourth year modules of the four-year degree programme. The subjects chosen
should be related to the candidates specific specialisation or area of practice. It may
also be permissible, where appropriate, for any second year subject to be chosen to
form part of this portfolio.

3. The total credit weighting must not be less than 40% and not more than 50% of that for
the fourth year of the selected programme.

4. The examinations must be the regular scheduled final examinations of the University.
The candidates answers must be marked and moderated in the same way as for the
rest of the class.

5. Course attendance is not compulsory in preparation for any examination.

Process

6. The procedure to be followed in processing alternate route applications for Registration

as a Professional Engineer is as follows:

(1) A person applying for registration as a professional engineer must complete the

normal application form and attach all the required documentation relevant to the

specific discipline.

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 (2) The administrative staff of ECSA submits the application to the relevant

Professional Advisory Committee (PAC) for consideration.

(a) If the applicant does not have an academic qualification at least equivalent to

an accredited National Diploma, the application is refused.

(b) If the minimum qualification requirement is met, the PAC further considers

the application and if the applicants work experience is considered equivalent

to 10 years experience at the level of competence and responsibility expected

of a professional engineer after graduation, the application proceeds to the

next stage. If the work experience is not considered to be acceptable, the

application is refused.

(3) The candidate must specify the University at which he/she proposes to study, and must
provide a list of the second, third and fourth year subjects available at the University
concerned.

(4) The relevant PAC assesses the applicants academic qualification and recommends which
specific subjects the candidate should complete in terms of these guidelines.

(5) The PAC refers the list of subjects to the Qualifications and Examinations Committee
(QEC), which approves or amends the proposed portfolio, and the candidate is advised
accordingly.

(6) On successful completion of the required examinations, the candidate must submit proof
thereof to ECSA.

(7) The application then proceeds to the professional review in terms of the normal
procedures for professional reviews.

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