Dark Nights of The Soul

Interview with John Harrigan

Artistic Director of Foolish People

Dark Nights of the Soul was a thirteen month magickal ritual in the form of a six part anthology of plays.

Each of the plays linked together to create a hyper sigil that existed within three realms.

1. The story of a Parliament of Spirits, led by a notorious spirit named Dr Bleach. The other members of the parliament were; Aquinas,
a corrupt saint and Dr Bleachs conduit of karma, The Gristly Machine, a non human entity of machine origin that maintained the parlia-
ments collective magick within a noumenal engine held inside its form, and two uber marionettes used as vehicles for possession with
which to communicate medicinal narratives. The Uber Marionettes were; Latour a french magician of royal lineage and Actant an actress
who had paused an entire audience for eternity with a performance of a sublime nature. Lucena a young woman who was murdered by
Aquinas and resurrected as a Moon Goddess. Kiskillia an insane whore clown goddess of immense power.

The Parliament of Spirits manifested as the Dark Nights of the Soul carnival at set points in human history, usually when a civilization was
about to fall, thus offering the human species the opportunity to cross the abyss and evolve by becoming what nature had intended them to
be all along. A hyper-dimensional entity.

Or fall once again into the muck to begin the long climb back down towards the abyss once again. Opposed to the parliaments task was
Jofiert - A fallen carnival witch who had given herself to the alpha and the omega and renounced magick - and the demon Wound, both
from the Christian embassy that resides deep within the heart of hell.

2. The ointment by which the parliament healed the human race and assited them towards their ultimate Destiny. In each cycle of Dark
Nights of the Soul a narrative was performed that was an alchemical combination of a magickal myth and an issue relevant to the modern
humans ascension. The role of this narrative was to supply six upgrades to the audience so that they might survive their collective journey
across the abyss.

3. The third element of the ritual was the magickal journey each member of FoolishPeople took throughout the thirteen months. Archetypes
revealed, reservoirs of guilt confronted, magickal pacts made and broken and artifacts discovered and lost combined with each cycle of
Dark Nights of the Soul to further charge the intent of the work and rewrite the history of each of the members via the use of retroactive
enchantment and time travel.
John Harrigan
31st May 2007

THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE 21

The date is the 29th November 2006 and I first. It says that is what we this is what I through our evolution, its such an impor-
arrive at Treadwells Books in Covent amthis is how strong I am and you tant creature and theres so many horse
Garden, one of Londons leading occult have to be willing to address that and leave spirits within there; like in cycle one, and I
bookshops, to be greeted with a customary part of what you are there and pay divi- know theres a lot of people talk about orbs
warm and friendly welcome. I am joined dends to the pain that has been spilt there, in different ways as to whether its dust on
moments later by John Harrigan, artistic to the animals that have suffered there, and the lens, but cycle one (the photos) are cov-
director of Foolish People; one of the most align yourself with their pain. Once youve ered in orbs and I dont doubt that half of
cutting edge ritual theatre companies cur- done that it becomes almost like, I guess, them are probably horse spirits and the
rently extant in the UK. I have arranged to your home ground, it became our home other half are just general entities that are
meet John here following Foolish Peoples ground, but normally people who were interested in the work thats being done. So
highly acclaimed production Dark Nights starting afresh in each cycle would be like yeah we did do a lot of ritual, for example
of the Soul which unfolded over a thirteen (makes sound of explosion), and normally in the first cycle, the pillars, the triptych
month period at the Horse Hospital in a youd have a run with them that would be spines of the horse hospital, were used with
quiet mews in Bloomsbury. ridiculously bad and then after theyd left a certain sigils dressed along them key
piece of what they are there then theyd fall deities and charged and it was switched
The interview was conducted downstairs at into alignment with the magick and the cur- on. The way that I saw it was that is was
Treadwells, the venue for the many rent of the Horse Hospital. So yeah in the there, hopefully, to be used in that way for
talks/lectures for which Treadwells has end it just felt like... I know people would any magickal group and we just turned the
become famous and where the rehearsals go in there and feel cold and all that stuff building on and after that we were com-
for the first three cycles of Dark Nights of but it just felt fine to me I never had any pletely in alignment with it and a part of it.
the Soul took place. problems after the first... maybe the first The way Mark interestingly enough
few weeks there. Mark Wright because he wrote a back-story
But then its very avant-garde and the peo- around Dark Nights. He wrote about the
ple who run it are incredible and have links Horse Hospital as if you went behind the
The Interview with a lot of magickal and other work that curtain and there were other rooms and
is on the edges of art. I know Roger who rooms upon rooms and rooms upon rooms
David Blank: Id like to begin by asking runs it is really interested in Kenneth Anger and so thats how the Spirit Parliament
you about the Horse Hospital, the venue for and experimental film. So artistically as existed there. It wasnt just that building
Dark Nights of the Soul, and why you well it was just like the most perfect venue there was a myriad of corridors and mag-
chose that location? really, I couldnt have asked for a better ickal exits and there was almost, because
venue, theres no way you could have got a there would be times when we were sitting
John Harrigan: Id seen it before, when I better magickal venue I dont think, I dont there and be beginning and the floor would
was doing Ruined Steel, it was very closed think there is another one thats had gallons literally drop away and there would be fire
at that time, they didnt know about me obvi- and gallons of horse blood spilt on it. below you and all this kind of stuff. Such
ously, but then through my immediate inter- powerful magickal experiences and I think
actions with the CFZ (Centre for Fortean DB: So did you do any rituals around that helped the characters we were playing,
Zoology) I found out that Orrin was working fuelled them. So yeah, it was an incredible
at the Horse Hospital as a co-curator and JH: The horses? Yeah, we first started off building, it is an incredible building, thats
again it was following the synchronicities touching base with them and talking to why its going to be difficult for me doing
from him, having a meeting with James and them and paying dividends to the suffering art anywhere else really, as a magician,
then talking about what I wanted to do. So it but also the strength of the horse, because because its almost become my temple I
was very much following the path to it. It the horse as an animal has taken our species work at. No doubt well be there again.
wasnt a case of thats where I want to per-
form, Id looked at it, but that was what was Dr. Bleach (Cycle One)
offering itself to me magickally.

DB: For those of our readers who may not

be familiar with the Horse Hospital I should
perhaps mention that it actually was a horse
hospital originally. The space Dark Nights
took place in is the same room the horses
were operated on.

JH: Where all the blood was spilt.

DB: Precisely, so there is a lot of power in

that venue.

JH: Yeah and you have to be willing to

align yourself with it and pay respect to it.
Mark Wright when he first went into the
building, for example, being a sceptic and
that normally when Ive taken actors in
there, and it did the same to me, it kicks the
shit out of you spiritually and magickally at

22 THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE

DB: Personally I found it was a very pow- they were meeting something that was trying to throw you out and youre fighting
erful place. In fact, like many other magi- magickally real. So that was the first way them back, absolutely, but we have to be as
cians I know, I never wanted to leave at the that we hoped we could effect them, that a group willing to accept that. You cant
end of each cycle, however, you got around they would feel that, they would feel that push people and not expect them to push
that very neatly (both laugh), youd chuck this isnt just... and I dont think we were back, if theyre pushing back then excellent
people out would you not? always successful in that, but I think that and that was making us grow and I guess
sometimes we hit our mark with that, so our audience grow and I think of how
JH: Yeah we did and definitely that was a that was the first thing; other than that it much, for example, Sara and yourself have
tenuous thing for our audience. was treating the Horse Hospital as... We invested in it... no doubt as much as I have
were at the Horse Hospital it wasnt as invested in you as people magickally. Its
DB: Talking of which, you broke down the though we were asking the audience to an interesting thing and I dont think I
boundaries between the audience and the believe that we were somewhere else that realised maybe until the fourth or fifth
play, the event. You did this through the use they werent so as soon as they come in cycle how much you guys had. I think yeah
of various techniques such as theatre in the we were where they were. you enjoyed it, but literally, magickally,
round and also by having some of the action So that was that, but for me, like yourself in youd come there and you probably even
take place in different locations, for exam- your journey over Dark Nights, because left a piece of yourself the same way that I
ple behind the audience. Another technique youre probably one of the only people had at the Horse Hospital. So it was that
you used was to have members of the cast whose seen the whole six cycles, is that if kind of experience, that we were all in this
sitting amongst the audience such that one an audience member feels like that, then massive mad scheme of things that we
was often not sure who was a member of Im winning, Im succeeding, because it is couldnt get out until the end.
the audience and who were players. You having such an effect on them they feel they So that was that, I never really, I didnt get
also employed the use of Carnival during cant do anything. So its either repression I dont think really until cycle five and six
the interval and invited the audience to or freedom. So if Im freeing people up and how much so that the audience were and
interact directly with the characters. they are able to explore and challenge that we were being successful, hopefully, in
However, Im aware, having been present at themselves, then thats a success; or if I eliciting that response. In cycle three we
all six cycles; that there was a significant challenge them so much that people run were incredibly aggressive with our audi-
proportion of the audience that refused to from the building, because they think were ence when they came in, because it was an
be anything other than passive audience. mad people, then thats a success to. So its aggressive cycle; a lot of the stuff that was
Now short of hitting them around the side eliciting a strong response, so rather than happening was hardcore magick. It was my
of the head with pigs entrails people going yeah thats alright, I would guilt exorcism... the character of Bleach
see that as a failure if people did that. So its was being exorcised from his guilt and that
JH: (Laughs) which we nearly did. either one or the other, whether people feel was obviously happening in my own life;
they can interact and follow their own path so the audience were expected to sit
DB: Indeed! So how does one get the hard- and start to develop as hardware, as they through what would be, if they were to
ware (audience) to actually engage with the were called, or whether they feel they have walk into a magickal ritual, would be a big
happening, the play? to leave, then that is ok for hopefully that deal, so thats why I think we had such a
would be enough of an experience... but to response from people, and theyd run out,
JH: Ok yeah! Well the first thing is the kind of just go (shrugs), that would be a because it was too intense.
characters, and I want to be really honest failure, someone going, yeah, thats
about this, each of the people who played alright, I was kind of open and Ill forget DB: In the last cycle, cycle six, you sewed
the characters of the Spirit Parliament, about it, Ill forget about it in a few days. Santiagos lips shut. Now again this was
those characters were not only my cre- Thats why we never... thats why at the end one of those instances were a person who to
ations. So for example, Lucy Allin, who of each cycle we have to chuck the audi- all appearences was a member of the audi-
played Aquinas in cycle three, the character ence out, we couldnt have that moment of ence was suddenly brought forth to become
developed and became Lucena from what (claps) we couldnt have clapping because part of the action, however, in this instance
she is so it was a case of her magickal that would be the banishing. So making the boundaries were further broken and
archetype coming to the surface, her expe- people leave I wanted everyone to know peoples minds snapped as you literally
riences through life, her magickal journey, that these characters were still existing sewed his lips shut, live, just feet from
the character changed to her. Whereas nor- when they had gone and the story was still where the audience were sitting.
mally it happens the other way around, so continuing, and it was with us magickally
for example an actor will come along and as a group. So it was that idea, for thirteen JH: Santiago is an incredibly magickal per-
drop their personality, hopefully, and take months, that we were existing as these char- son, deeply. Santiago Genochio is an artist,
the mantle of that character. Thats not the acters at certain times. So it was an interest- he works with another girl (India Banks)
way we worked, in this we worked in such ing thing because people who are incredi- and he works with body modification and
a way that our personalities would drop and bly intelligent and are magickal, because a pain. A lot of the time youd think someone
the super parts of us would come up to the lot of our audience are that, are going to like that would be angry and aggressive,
surface and that would change the charac- start pushing back, they are not passive but he is one of the most calm and peaceful
ter, so there was that first of all, so when people and nor would I ever want them to people youre ever likely to meet. You feel
they were meeting, when the audience were be. I want them to experiment in my work his energy, its so beautiful, its just loving,
meeting us, these kind of whatever you as much as I want to experiment with my and hes very much a martyr in the flesh.
want to call them, whether you call them work, so its a case of thats really interest- So for cycle six that act of sewing his lips
fiction suits or maybe our true magickal ing for me; for example when you were try- shut was really the Spirit Parliament saying
personalities or whatever you want to call ing to untie Lucy, because thats absolutely to the hardware, the audience, the human
them; they (the audience) werent only a right response... your getting it, thats species, We sew his lips shut so your lips
meeting, they werent meeting a character, exactly it, and to the point where people are arent shut, your lips, your will, is open and

THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE 23

your voice is open to what you want to say. Ive had time to come down and Im like after a year or two of that name having bad
So that was what that was about. it really unsettled me. connotations its changed to something else.
So it might be learning disabilities because
DB: And did you rehearse that? DB: You would also hand out artefacts to the other term, the other word, carries a
the audience in each cycle. negative connotation. So Weaponised Art,
JH: Yeah! I did it once before, the week really, was a case of finding a way to talk
before. JH: Yeah, key magickal artefacts. For about art that was magick and hand that to
example, in the last cycle, Lili Spain who we our audience in an interesting way, so they
DB: It was a very powerful experience to worked with and who was our installation were willing to deal with magick without
see you actually sew someones lips shut. artist, a member of FP, who dressed the all the connotations of what magick and the
space for the last two cycles; she goes into mysteries are. But it was also talking about
JH: Yeah it was very emotional for me peoples homes and collects, when someone the art that is created in the media, for
because I just felt such love for him, such dies, all their photos, all their artefacts, the example, in, I think it was 2006 Superbowl,
compassion and love for the sacrifice; you substance of their life in photos and materi- they had a famous advert went out that was
know his blood being spilt and him being al artefacts and she has stacks of photos, all selling the Humvee, selling this massive
willing to do that. It was It was a big deal these photos of peoples children and their vehicle that eats so much oil. It was basical-
for me to be able to do that, its like the proof children. We charged these magickally and ly Godzilla, an amazing pop icon created by
is in the pudding and it was me showing to they were handed out in envelopes wrapped occulture, it was one of the key points of the
people how I was because a lot of the up as a magickal artefact, as something Japanese culture is Godzilla and what it
time people will come at things negatively hopefully that people can apply to their own represents in relation to Russia and all that
and think, yeah ok. But it was me saying magickal work because if youre asking stuff. So they (the advert) had an aspect of
that I will do whatever it takes magickally people to come to an experience like that Godzilla and they had a big robot and they
to be a positive force and I want to be that they want to take away not just the sticky are basically in this huge city and they end
and its that important to me; whether its magick on them, they want real objects that up fucking and they create a baby and the
sewing someones lips shut, whatever we are meaningful, and thats what we tried to baby is a Humvee. Now that was a prostitu-
need to do, lets do it, and hopefully me in do. So we did that and in cycle three we tion of a beautiful pop icon because its say-
doing that other people feel that strength, gave people sweets that were supposedly ing that were stealing your myth, the myth
because I want them to, because anyone can impregnated with Weaponised Art of this thats been hard fought and hard
do anything they want to do really as long won of a society and a culture and now the
as they just have the will. So for me it was DB: Oh yes the sweets that were poisoned. Humvee is the offspring of Godzilla so
just kind of closing the book. A lot of the I didnt eat mine (laughs). youre going to want one more. Thats a
actors didnt think we were going to do it, piece of Weaponised Art. That goes on and
they thought we were joking. that is literally a weapon because people
Santiago was a big part of the singularity; will go out and buy that car and it will harm
he was around and let me stay at his house children back in wherever the wars being
during that time, Ive done certain magick- fought for the oil to fill that car up. So thats
al stuff with him in the past, so he just came how that exists as a piece of Weaponised
up out the blue at that right moment. I met Art; because art has the ability to kill, or
him and we talked about it and it just change, or be used against people, which is
seemed absolutely the right thing to do. He all around us at the moment.
had never done it before anywhere else,
hed done other body modification art, hed DB: So in Dark Nights the audience were
had an instrument created for him, a viola, actually becoming Weaponised Art?
he played it with hooks in his back and Santiagos lips being sewn shut
other stuff like that but hed never had his JH: Yes, living embodiment of art that can
lips sewn shut or anything like that. It was a JH: No. (laughs) But its funny that people go on and help and effect people.
weird thing; it was amazing how quickly, believed that much that when it came fur-
how easy it is, its like butter, the needles ther into the narrative and we said well DB: And cause change?
we had were so sharp they just went straight actually theyre poisoned with Weaponised
through. Art and people are going to start changing JH: And cause change... yeah, that really is
now and moulding your flesh to become what Weaponised Art is.
DB: And you also put hooks through his new forms of art, living art and people
forearms as well. By which he was hung believed it, and thats how much you can do DB: You say the audience were becoming
from the wall. when you suggest things. Weaponised Art, which brings me to ask
what intents the hardware were pro-
JH: Yeah that as well, and that was (pause) DB: This whole idea of Weaponised Art grammed with as Weaponised Art, or were
that was much thicker and lots more flesh to came up a lot, especially in the early cycles, they not?
go through. The funny thing is that again I can I ask you to explain what you mean by
was ok on the night. I didnt have any prob- Weaponised Art? JH: The key, the two Weaponised Art per-
lems sewing when I was there, but when formances happened during the whole Dark
people show me the video I can quite easily, JH: Weaponised Art for me was applying Nights project and within the Dark Nights
I would recoil, it throws me completely. So modern marketing techniques and also from project. So there were two at Guerrilla Zoo,
its being in that magickal consciousness my work as a social worker where a lot of those two intents were originally a way to
and in that magickal consciousness I think times you rename things; so when people, if offer people enough magick that they can
we can do anything, but come away and people, suffer from learning difficulties take it away and have control over their

24 THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE

existence because obviously the stakes really; for good and bad. And through in them, its a case of seeing them, they are
being so high at the moment because of doing that I get, hopefully, I challenge there and thats what Ive said to a lot of the
whats happening to us as a species and myself in all my bad aspects and all my people Ive worked with; its not a case,
how people are trying to control us, really good aspects and got rewards from both of Im not asking you to believe or have faith,
the intent was lets cut all the bullshit away, it. So, for example, theres things that I can show you that its real. I think a lot of
lets cut all the let me as a magician give Bleach could do that I can now do that I the times you fake it until you GET IT.
you what you need as quickly as possible to couldnt do before. I think a lot of magicians do it that way; but
effect positive change in your life. Now that again if they believe enough that makes it
might be painful, it might hurt a bit, but DB: Such as? real for them at key times.
through witnessing this performance... it
was really what Artaud did. Artaud was JH: Magickal growths in my energy body DB: A recurrent theme in your work is the
using Weaponised Art, hed give people that I never had before, being able to... use of ancient tools to gain back our indi-
such a performance that it would change When people are scrying being able to vidualism. How do you define ancient tools
them forever, theyd never be, theyd be touch them in certain ways and shift their and in what way do you consider them
fundamentally different and theyd go on scrying... just key magickal stuff that I important to gain back or reclaim our indi-
and hopefully be able to have a more posi- could never even ridiculously be able to do, vidualism?
tive existence, so thats what is was, that never dream Id be able to do. So magickal
was the intent. Weaponised Art was giving abilities really and I dont really... I dont JH: By ancient tools I mean specifically
people the weaponry to deal with reality, to really necessarily know what that means. shamanistic practice and ritual as a way of
protect themselves as individuals from all Its like ghosts and spirits and having more life. As the way you interact with the real
the magick thats thrown at us from our tel- of a relationship with them, because Bleach world and the numinous beyond the real
evisions, from our papers, from our politi- had more of a relationship with them than I world, whatever the real world is. And by
cians, from all the things that are out there. did before. So yeah, its quite interesting, those tools, which I guess at its core ele-
The same way we as magicians keep our- its really an odd thing though when you get ment is magick and the Mysteries, how you
selves whole and our will whole so that we used because the magick to me before meet yourself in a different light. How you
can be what we are, giving someone else was very much a psychological thing, and it meet the true you and what archetypes are
the equipment, hopefully. Its a grand thing can be for a certain time you realise it as within you and how that plays into your
and Im not saying that I succeeded, but that aspects of your own personality and youre individuality and your path. And also
was the aim, that was the intent. working with it but then during Dark deprogramming, finding the bottom of
Nights I realised that absolutely no its not, what you are in relation to the planet and
DB: Id like to ask you now about Dr. its not only a microcosm of the humans etc. and so forth. So for me its techniques
Bleach and Asmadai, are they one and the relationship with reality; it is all this other like scrying, and not necessarily the typical
same? beautiful stuff that exists outside of you that type of scrying, but how you want to inter-
has relationship with you and I guess its act with that as a technique and how you
JH: Yeah, and the Catsun in there as well built that relationship with me. can take it further and again, for example,
which manifested in cycle five and cycle I keep going back for myself and thinking
six where you found out more about DB: Something that has become more about our ancestors living in caves and how
Bleachs history and I think through my his- apparent to me over the past thirteen they communicated our story, how that was
tory the only way I can describe it is months or so is that a lot of what we do as a big part of our evolution. How we drew
when Mark Wright (Michael Aquinas with- magicians is belief manipulation, belief on walls to depict art so we could carry the
in the play) asks Bleach, who are you? You manipulation used as a magickal weapon message and knowledge on. So that passing
dont even know who you are because one both against self and others, but one gets to of knowledge on to your community so
minute youre this Asmadai character this point where one realises that we need to they can use it. So thats what I mean by
youre manifesting aspects of that and then go beyond that and engage directly with ancient techniques.
your manifesting Bleach and then its this what is actually out there. Its not about the
Catsun creation, and the way I look at it is belief we are willing to invest in it, it is DB: Talking about the story, the narrative,
that they are all constellations within the there whether we invest belief in it or not. Is as a means to pass on the knowledge. Do
same universe. So within each of us theres that what you were talking about? you also see the story, in the sense, that we
a universe of possibilities and each of those as magicians conjure/create our own story,
characters, each of those aspects, go to JH: Yeah absolutely, its like, God yeah!! or narrative?
make up what I am as a magician and again And to meet it... and I think this is why
through invoking, invoking, thats what I shamanistic practice happened this way that JH: Our myth, yeah! Personal myth. A huge
was doing through playing Asmadai whose people would be, for want of a better word, part of my practice is personal myth.
a big part of me magickally. Bleach was a hazed, and Im not talking about hazing Through magick exploring what you are,
big part of me. Catsun more towards the as that happens in a modern way, Im talk- the archetypes and recurrent themes, and
end; which was another key creation for ing about people would nearly die and also learning about the time lines of the
me. So yeah, theyre all different aspects of theyd have to meet the Mysteries that way, manifestation that is you, because once
me personally. it was a quick and effective tool. So youd you start playing with those techniques and
But Bleach really from the beginning... have to break the third eye, or snap it, or for me what is really interesting is a lot the
Bleach was me at the start thinking ok snap your magickal self to be open to it, its work that FP has done has been in retroac-
what if I was to take me now, as I am now, that kind of a thing and I dont... and when tive magick, playing with time and you
and manifest all the best possibilities and people talk about crossing the abyss I think learn that, and I know that certain scientists
all the worst possibilities to see what it would its that kind of thing, its being willing to are playing with this at the moment, that
be. Thats what Bleach was really, me go to the edge to open yourself to that and time obviously is painted as a linear thing
taken to ridiculous extremes, like a caricature its like you say, its not a case of believing a, b, c but its absolutely not. Time is just

THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE 25

all around us to be played with so, for JH: Yeah, so basically what happened there something snap in my head. Up until that
example, Ive had things done, practiced was Bleach the key aspects to Bleachs point the first three cycles were just really
certain types of magick, and things have myth were that he grew up as a child in a hard and I wasnt getting too many rewards
happened NOW, for example in this time graveyard with his mother; after her parents and once that happened and I passed that
line, that I can see the effects in the past. So and her husband died she moved into this taboo it was incredible; that night I felt like
I might be doing something during Dark graveyard where they lived. So Bleachs Id just been upgraded, I felt I had a con-
Nights and I see the reason for something creation was really him growing up in a nection with my dad by eating the flowers
happening in the past, that magick has graveyard and thats how he was taught the of his grave, a connection Id never had
manifested in my past, so time becomes Mysteries and how the spirits took respon- ever with him I didnt understand who he
this great big sheet, this landscape, that you sibility for him through different parts of was or what he was; my mum never really
exist within that is not linear and as you go his history; which was long and convoluted. shared who he was and told me his stories
further into that landscape it gets more But my history was that when my dad died but I felt like I had this very real magickal
complicated to explain what you are. When my mum would take me to the graveyard connection with him as much as in the way
I started my magickal practice, or when I every single weekend. Id spend every you would do with Hoodoo. Now I dont
started Dark Nights, it was much easier for weekend at the graveyard week in week know a lot about Hoodoo, Ive read some
me to say, ok this is what I do A, B and C out. Which to me as a child was the most things, but Im not a Hoodoo practitioner,
and Ra Ra Ra. Whereas now time has boring, mundane, miserable place to be. but I almost through, thankfully through
been really kind of... time has been like But I realise now that close connection with trusting and just following my path had done
in the last cycle when it talks about Time Is death as a child has informed me, my prac- this instinctually, instinctively, and from
dead, Long Live Life, time to me is tice, as a magician. that through Bleachs relationship to being
absolutely non-linear and things are hap- Now I never had much of a relationship in a graveyard Ive now got a relationship
pening now that are effecting my past and with my dad because he died when I was with my dad as an ancestor, a magickal
things are happening in the past that dont four, so through Dr. Bleach, through in ancestor, that I never had and one of my
go through you as a creation, as a person, cycle three when we did some filming of key artefacts is from my father. So for
its literally happening then and it effects some of the key characters for one of the example cycle four, the morning of cycle
you straight away in the future and that carnival aspects, the mutascope, we did part four, I went back to the grave and I
kind of a thing. of their history outside of the play. Now for shared you know my dad was from
We did a lot of work in Dark Nights, in mine it was obviously Bleach in a grave- Paisley in Scotland, a really rough town, he
cycle three, with future-selves working yard and we were going to film it in a loved his whiskey and drinking so I gave
which is where we take people for a mag- graveyard in London but I knew instinctive- him a bottle of whiskey to drink and I took
ickal ritual to experience, to meet, them- ly that it didnt feel right to be some random some of his stones, gravestones, and kept
selves in the future and this future self graveyard, it seemed twee and a bit kind of them in the whiskey bottle and that to me is
would talk to that person and give set infor- running around a graveyard as a magician one of my key artefacts now.
mation and letters and stuff like that core how many times does that happen. So to So its those kind of rewards in re-writing
stuff which is quite interesting. me I knew honestly that I had to go to my your myth and Ive got such a deep relation-
own fathers graveyard and film it as Bleach ship with my dad now that it foreshadows
DB: So one could say that we are creating there. So we went to the graveyard and the relationship I have with my mum.
or writing this story but not in a linear again I felt Id spoken to people around (Pauses)
sense? me who I trusted and one person was like So yeah thats really the key thing of that
you cant do this, this is disgusting. Youre aspect of Bleach and the past.
JH: Yeah absolutely and thats almost I think using your fathers myth, your father, as a
why the story is what enables you to reach... tool for your magick. At the time knowing DB: So let me ask where does Asmadai
The story is the vehicle by which you can how I was presenting it I could see why come in?
travel through time in a different fashion. people though that and to me it did feel...
So the ritual, or the story, or the myth, is when I got there I was shocked by how JH: Asmadai is a key entity that I invoked
how you re-visit different aspects of your- much it effected me. At the time I was like in one of my first productions, Enochian
self and see it in a different light, a more fuck it, lets do it. Bravado and that kind of (Enochian: Language of Angels). Enochian
pure light. Because the experience you had thing, it was more of a macho thing I was was created because of the sleep paralysis,
fist time without magick when you were doing it for, I wanted to go to my fathers the visitation with the angels.
younger, or when you didnt understand graveyard and explore the myth of Bleach I had sleep paralysis when I was quite
magick as well, is not necessarily the true there as me. young, I cant remember the exact year but
experience of the event. So once you have So I got there and I was just incredibly I was about sixteen or something like that,
magick, and hopefully your archetypes and uncomfortable, it just felt wrong and a bit and basically I woke up and I was still
your rituals and all that stuff, you get to re- like I was exploiting my dad without his dreaming. I was in a graveyard and its the
experience the event and see... Its like you permission. There was no one else in this graveyard that my dads buried in and my
get the answers before you get the ques- graveyard and I was moving about in it and granddad and my nan and a young child
tion... Thats how I view it. You get this existing as the character Bleach there and was being buried around about the same
answer and youve no idea what it means, the way that Bleach lives, survives, in the area that my dad is buried; understanding
why its happening and then later on maybe graveyard is he eats flowers from the graves that and seeing all the people upset... And I
you get the question and it makes more and he lives on that and he drinks the water think it was a young girl that was being
sense. from graves. And Tana who was filming me buried and it was the graveyard that my
was pushing me for more and more and dads buried in and yet it was different, lots
DB: So how has the archetype of Dr. Bleach I dont know I just ended up eating flowers of the statutes were larger, it was much
helped you in your own work in this of my dads grave, ended up eating these more Catholic in nature, and I remember
respect, like for example with your father? flowers, consuming them, and I just felt thinking, really kind of clichd, that oh this

26 THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE

is terrible, why has this happened, what an
awful thing, this child is dead. Suddenly a
big stone angel next to me just came to life
and spread its wings and floated down. I
remember the terror of being awake in my
room while still dreaming was just so
immense. It wasnt a reassuring thing as the
angel came down to me, it was just utter,
utter, horror. Like it was the most pure form
of terror Ive ever felt up to that point. Just
like yeah... just like awful. The angel
basically said, Dont worry, everyone is
going to be ok. Theyll be fine. And I was
looking through the wall of my bedroom
into another I was looking through the
wall and into the graveyard and I could not
move at all and I was just trying to scream
at this angel and then it just drifted away
and the dream stopped and sleep paralysis
stopped and I could move and then for a
time after that, for a few weeks, I was just
really plagued with thoughts of should I...
my mum was always religious anyway,
my mum is very religious, a born again
Christian and I began thinking should I
be going to church, what should I be doing,
what does this mean? and this was before I
really understood about sleep paralysis and
what it means scientifically and what it
means magickally. So I just became really
obsessed with angels and bought every book
there was on angels.
So I wrote a piece about an angel that leaves
the comfort of God. Its quite a simplistic
story; he left the comfort of God to experi-
ence Earth, to just experience all the mate-
rial aspects of Earth. Through that The
Devil sees the potential of having this other
powerful angel to overthrow God. The play
takes place as a triptych love triangle; both
God and The Devil are women. At first
when you watch the play its like just a nor- The Spirit Parliament
mal kind of and hes having an affair with
someone and the wife wants him back and doing something magickal anyway. So DB: And one of your future productions is
then it turns out that its God and The Devil. through that Asmadai has played a massive going to be Lilith.
And you know I enjoyed it at the time, it part of my magickal practice as a deity, hes
was quite simplistic, it was a very early very... well not well yeah, hes almost JH: Yeah.
piece of mine, but through that I came into like a demon but to the point of being a god,
contact with Enochian. My friend sent me a and hes a very sharp character. He gives DB: Thats very courageous.
text on Enochian because he knew I was rewards but you pay for them.
writing this play and I started exploring Lon Milo Duquette said something interest- JH: Yeah I mean Ive done (laughs) it is
aspects of Enochian. Now at the time I was ing to me, he said, You should always have very stupid is what it is to be honest (Both
sensible enough to know, not particularly a key goddess or a god that holds you in that laugh). Ive done work with Lilith through
because I understood all the stuff around positive aspect but you should also have a Ruined Steel because there was a character
Enochian and that people are quite intimi- character that is maybe the other end of the in it called Lilith who was a manifestation
dated by it, but I didnt really want to use spectrum, and you exist in-between them. of her, so Ive met Lilith my mum very
the language within the play, it could kick Asmadai is very much the character below, much runs Lilith software, She is best what
stuff off. So I went to the text of Miltons the person he represents to me is fire and my mum represents. So you can see all the
Paradise Lost for the name of the angel blood, is strength and all the power things archetypes playing out as you start going
and I found the name Asmadai and I named but sometimes in a negative aspect. deeper. So we are meant to be doing Lilith
the character Asmadai. Of course I didnt as our next production possibly but theres
realise at the time that Milton had taken all DB: Asmadai is associated with the lots of other stuff happening so maybe later
these key names of his deities and his younger Lilith. in the year rather than earlier but yes Im
angels from magickal texts, derivatives of writing it as a one-woman play for one of
magickal texts, so it was completely, I was JH: Yeah he was supposedly her consort. our members; Tereza Kamenicka. I feel

THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE 27

Tereza got a very strong message from JH: Hmm! The whole thing that Jehovah does take place within the same themes. But
Lilith while she was in cycle three or four. being almost... that Jofiert when the people, yeah a lot of my work is really obsessed
Lilith visited her and said look this is what when all her family die around her, she with Christianity because thats been my
I want and I feel again if a deity comes to turns in disgust from magick because the first interaction with the numinous and the
a member of your magickal group and whole thing is that the Carnival Gods and Mysteries. So yeah very much so.
wants something then its your duty to do my mum, and I only found this out towards
that and I will do that if it is possible; if the the end of the cycle, my mum travelled with DB: So therefore my question would be
magick is there, and if Lilith wills it, then the carnival which was really, that was quite Do you consider yourself a Christian?
yeah there will be a production based on amazing, she travelled with my cousins
her but it obviously wont be literally it who used to run carnivals and used to go all JH: Yeah I do partly, part of my make up is
will be her manifesting through someone. over England and basically my mum, definitely, part of my strength I think and
Thats hopefully what the story will be. through the death of a lot of my family part of and its really only the last maybe
I work with female energy a lot. It tends to members, turned to Jehovah, the same way two or three months, maybe even four
be there are more women who want to be Jofiert turned to Jehovah, turned away from months during Dark Nights that Ive really
actors, number one, also they can be trusted all the Mysteries and all that offers just for been able to settle with that whole thing
more than men most of the time, they turn one paradigm negating all other things. because up till that point I hated
up on time and dont get drunk. Through Christianity, I hated my mum for how it
that Ive met the feminine energy, and But in the end Jofiert moved very far away manifested and how like there was one God
Lilith is feminine energy, she birthed, sup- from my mother. It took on the mantle of but really as Ive come to understand mag-
posedly birthed, the Moon. One of my main what that is in society, the worst aspects, ick more Ive understood it as a system of
gifts through Dark Nights has been the because of whats happening with Bush, magick. Christianity as a system I think is
Moon, Ive been given the moon. and became the aspects of Christianity as very successful and very applicable and can
this all devouring thing that consumes all of be used to do a lot of good, as well as a lot
DB: In what sense? magick and the Mysteries. of bad, like most magick can be used in that
way. So really if its the largest form of
JH: In the fact in that Lucy Allin runs Moon magick in the world and has worked the
archetype. It runs massively through her; most successfully, in fact its got more,
her as a person, and her as a consort to me most people to act within it and its lasted a
in our relationship. long time, then really the people have a
responsibility who are practicing it to
DB: Did you meet her through Dark address the needs of our species and if they
Nights? are not then they are failing. Completely
failing and it is even more of a travesty really
JH: Yeah through Dark Nights. Lucy and I what they are doing.
found the true magickal love of our lives
through Dark Nights; and at a point, that day DB: So its the sense of rather than turning
when I ate the flowers from my dads grave, our back on Christianity because we dont
she was the person that kept me solid and like some of the things its been responsible
was one of my gifts really, has been one of for, or opposing it; I mean after all a lot of
my main gifts through Dark Nights; a mag- magicians as far as Christianity is concerned
ickal partner, which most, you know most they just wont go there.
magicians, would work towards getting.
JH: Absolutely yeah. I know exactly what
DB: Id like to ask you now about Jofiert? you mean.

JH: Ok. Jofierts my mum, my mother, the DB: But if we look at the way the Christian
magickal representation of my mother The demon Wound meme is so prevalent, especially in the
within the whole hypersigil, within the Western world, its very powerful,
whole spell. Where the name Jofiert comes DB: Christianity appears quite a lot in your Christianity has a very powerful meme-
from, that wasnt always planned, it again work. complex.
manifested through the different cycles.
My mum is very, very magickal... deeply JH: Yeah absolutely. JH: Absolutely.
magickal... shes dealt with death a lot in
her life, a lot of people dying, but she went DB: Not just in Dark Nights. In your earlier DB: So would you say that your approach to
the other way, she took solace in one struc- work as well, for example this piece you magick through the use of Christianity is to
ture, which was Christianity, to the point of wrote entitled A Machine Speaks which is evolve that meme-complex so that its more
pushing all others out and I think only now from the Ruined Steel work I believe, the beneficial, more evolutionary?
is she coming out of that. So yeah Jofiert, one you posted on Key23, where you say:
thats what Jofiert represents. Where are the armies of Christians com- JH: Yeah, absolutely. In fact the bible has
ing to shut down the machines. I hate what so much complex magick in it that can be
DB: So whats the relationship in Dark I am without my creator. I am nothing but used today without any of the strict you
Nights between Jofiert, possibly perhaps Ruined Steel. can break the rules of the bible in any way
because your mothers a Christian, but you see fit. If it holds you down, and it ties
there is a relationship in Dark Nights JH: That piece is from Dark Nights but its you down, then thats fine; but if you are
between Jofiert and Jehovah? linking to Ruined Steel. A lot of my work hopefully deep enough within the Mysteries

28 THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE

and magickal enough theres no reason, like want to call it, is Christian in its nature really want forgiveness from people and
you said, it cant be evolved and it should because its how Ive been brought up. So your genuine about that and Mark told
be evolved, and I dont necessarily mean in you could absolutely, as a lot of magicians me about an old parable that if you ask
the way that George Bush feels it should. do and I understand why they do it, is to someone for forgiveness three times and
I mean it shouldnt go across the world and turn away from Christianity; but it is much they turn you down the guilt passes onto
oppress people, but in such a way that, for more interesting to play with the structure them you know if they cant accept, for-
example, during part of Dark Nights I was of what you are and push that on. give you, which is quite interesting. After
spending a lot of time in hotels and a lot of I did that exorcism I felt incredible and I
the time I was using the bible, like I used a DB: I would agree. I think Christianity, and felt that I really had, and it was at Easter
Gideons bible to leave messages in to especially Catholicism, is magickally very funnily enough, the Resurrection!!
create psychogeographic markers within powerful. A storehouse of incredible power
those hotels. that is there to be used for good or ill. DB: So did you actually ask for forgiveness
from people?
DB: Can you explain more how you did <snip>
that? JH: Yeah, I literally went to all these people,
DB: In Dark Nights Jofiert wants to return as many as I could, the real close people
JH: Yeah! So basically Id take a bible and magick to Jehovah, would you care to talk that was dealing with big guilt, and was
Id use it. First of all it can be used as a about that idea? genuinely sorry and tried to move beyond it.
form of scrying, so youd open it at any And the whole thing of Bleach losing
page and see if any particular passage is JH: Yeah, and to me, like for example the Aquinas, this conduit of karma, and me los-
talking to you, then once I leave the hotel apple, and it links back to Lilith again, the ing my magickal aspects to be able to deal
room I might write a message, playing with apple being the moment almost when with the guilt, and me accepting that to go
the form of the bible, not necessarily in, not humanity found out what magick is by eat- beyond; because I think you get to a certain
in a kind of well I guess some people ing from the world tree and all those stage magickally you do have to atone and
would see it as sacrilegious, blasphemous Mysteries going and spreading out through that was my atonement. But after that when
way but in such a way offering anoth- Adam taking it into his body. The whole Bleach, when I disappeared, and Bleach
er kind of so its not just a bible its an idea of Jofiert collating all of that magick wasnt in cycle five because of that and I
artefact. Its a magickal artefact. People back into this repository of magick that wasnt in anyones life during that time, the
who go into that room and spend some time existed within cycle four... all these differ- people Id hurt, and it was interesting that
there open it. So its taking it, it is evolving ent artefacts and then coagulating it and people did start missing me, people Id
it, has magick within it, a different magick placing it within this new birth of her son never heard from in so long would phone
coated in it. And the funny thing is once I returned, which is when Bleach comes back me up, and it was in the same way they
started doing that, so for example I might as the Catsun and Asmadai, and then return- (The Spirit Parliament) were missing the
take a book, a bible, from one room and ing this receptacle, he was like the recepta- character of Bleach in that cycle. People I
transport it to another room, leave that bible cle for all magick, and then returning it to thought Id never hear from again would try
there, then take the bible there to another Jehovah so that Armageddon can be kicked to get in contact with me, which was a good
room. So its like an exchange or trading of off. That was the general idea story wise experience.
rooms. and magickally it was me collating, as an
For example if you walk down the street idea, it was me collating all the magick DB: And in cycle six you become the repos-
with a bible in your hand the reaction you back that Id given and taking it within so I itory of all the magick?
get from people is incredible, its like cross- can take the next step magickally. So the
ing roads cars will stop for you, people will dual aspects within the story thats happen- JH: Yes.
part, its just that your carrying a very pow- ing to the character, but for me it was very
erful magickal artefact and you can really real. Me coming back without the guilt for DB: But you dont actually return it to
use it for good and bad I guess, but to the all the things Id done in the past... get rid Jehovah?
point where I was doing this for quite some of that through the exorcism in cycle three.
time and I got to the stage where Id be get- JH: No. The fact is that when you work
ting messages back, so Id find a bible and with deity, if youre craving magick in
it would have all manner of weird writing respect of a deity, when you do all this mag-
in it that someone else has left. There was ickal work, you dont hand it all over and
one we found that was really graphically end up an empty shell, you collect it all
sexual and it was at the back of the bible back in yourself to begin again. It was very
around about Revelations. Its really inter- much that for everyone in it as well; the
esting seeing someone else using a bible as actors and the artists were all collecting
a sexual tool. Its almost like they were a their magick and their rewards for the hard
lonely person in this room and they are work, it was very much a part of the sigil,
writing this sexual story to turn themselves the spell. Cycle six was the positive one
on and you know finding that within the where all the rewards, although it really
bible, its very interesting to use it that way. Guilt was the hardest one, it was the most posi-
So yeah, I think your absolutely right, a tive cycle in content but it was so hard
Christian in the fact that it has very apt That month in cycle three I experienced magickally outside of it, the prices each of
magick in it and I could use that and I do every bad thing Id ever done, everyone us paid individually, like me with my
use that and I understand that my coding as returned asking for his or her pound of familiar. It was just a real, real, hard slog to
a human being, as a magician, part of that flesh. But I think if you ask for forgiveness, get through it, to get to the end. I thought,
structure, that scaffolding, whatever you if youve done something wrong and you ignorantly, I thought it was going to be the

THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE 29

easiest and the most fun because of the con- what would happen, and there was a key should have been there. Its a difficult thing,
tent; in the same way as all the other content point during Dark Nights, maybe cycle two at the time it felt absolutely my instinct was
in each of the sections of the spell had fed or cycle three, when I had a very powerful to stay in London, to stay within that cur-
back for whatever aspects. I thought, well magickal experience, when I experienced rent, and not to leave it because it could
it must be positive, its going to spread back her death before it happened. I had her there throw things out. So she died and I never
but it didnt, it was really harsh which with me and it was like she died, so I was in even got to bury her and Id buried all my
threw me a bit really. mourning for a while and it was a beautiful cats up to that point, so she was buried by
moment because I got to be with her and my wife Im separated from and my mum
DB: You mentioned your familiar and that she was, you know, dead and that was a was with her all the time, but she (Ubu) just
she was a price you paid, would care to talk very magickal experience and the key thing went and laid down in the front room and
about that? was during the last two cycles I felt it died, she was about seventeen years old, but
wasnt right to go back to Hertfordshire yeah I did... it was one of the hardest things
JH: My cat Ubu was my familiar and had and I knew she was very sick and I knew Ive ever had to do experiencing that, but to
been for seventeen years. To be perfectly magickally I had things to do, to be with her the point that if Id experienced that at the
honest the way I felt about her as a living and address that, how I thought I should beginning of Dark Nights I think I would
thing, as a creature, in some ways I felt address that. I got to visit her once during have been floored for months, but through
closer to her than anything which I think the last two cycles to say goodbye and it Dark Nights I was able to, I understood
is the relationship you should have with a was a shock seeing her because she was so death a lot more maybe than I did before so
familiar than anything else on earth; my skinny and it was like all the life had been its not been the same kind of experience.
lovers, my children. Now thats quite hard drained from her, and she was talking to me Basically I did something in cycle five, I
for people to hear but she as a thing, a and communicating with me and I knew did a magickal act to keep her alive for
being, I had a more meaningful connection when I left that day Id never see her again. awhile and it worked, but I think that was
with her than any other thing that has a the wrong thing to do, I think I shouldnt
heartbeat really and she kept me going have done that.
through numerous dark times, and has
given me beyond pleasure and joy, and I DB: You actually said, and this is dated
nourished this relationship over seventeen June 26th 2006 where youre talking about
years. I got her from a cattery when she was the hypersigil artefact, It takes your chil-
six months old, she was a very magickal dren and loved ones from you, it takes
creature, she had a very different and fathers from sons it fills you full of loneli-
unusual purr, much louder, as if her purr ness and desperation in a world full of
was broken. I felt it was because I had more people who are nothing but black holes for
healing to do and more journey to go on love.
that her purr was louder because it is said
that the purr, being the emanations of the JH: Yeah! (Pause) Yeah, I mean at all times
Universe, is how it heals itself and she was during this and this is really strong, its
sharing her purr. I had a deep, deep, mean- dualist again because of, I guess because of
ingful relationship with this animal. One of Christian programming, but there where
my key deities is Bubastis, Bast. points in Dark Nights when I felt I was I
think most magicians if youre doing your
DB: I was going to ask you about Bast, work right you should be at these limits...
because Bast was present throughout every the limits are just elation... pure ecstasy...
cycle. and an utter desperation where you could
just end it all in a second. So yeah it does.
JH: Yeah, and throughout my life Shes But basically to me a hypersigil is almost
been there. Bast has been present through- like a machine that feeds on what it needs to
out all my life at different key stages, I It was a very, very, hard moment, it was one feed on to get to where its going. So its
could tell you all of those. But Ubu dying, of those moments when you know you like a magickal machine that takes every-
and especially her dying during Dark either stay there because I was very thing it needs around you thats superfluous
Nights. She got ill in cycle five, she frightened going back to Hertfordshire and it eats that and burns that up to take you
become very ill, it was a form of either because Dark Nights was so hard there was to where your meant to be going; it can
she had got cancer or jaundice so she always the risk Id never return, the constant also, it can jump you forward possibly, past
couldnt eat really, she was living with my I cant do any more of this, its killing me where your meant to be going so you might
mum in Hertfordshire and Id go back and and its killing people I love. So I knew jump a few stages. But to do that yeah
visit because I was staying in London and that after that I couldnt go back and when absolutely it kind of um
living in London to finish the Dark Nights. she got very sick I knew the day that she
Now to me I think it was, again in Magick was going to die, I could feel it and I couldnt DB: Consumes?
if you get lots of gifts you have to pay for be there with her. So for me it was very
them. So to me it was very much I was pay- much, how committed are you to your JH: Consumes, yeah absolutely consumes,
ing for, you know paying whoever it is you magick and the pathway, you can take the for a positive act in the end for a positive
pay, for the journey Id had through Dark easy path and be there to hold her when she goal but you have to be willing like any
Nights and the gifts I had been given with dies, or do you stay the course. And to me shamanistic rite thats worth it, thats rele-
my familiar, because I couldnt give, I it was staying the course and I dont know vant you have to be willing to die. And I
couldnt pay a higher price. In some ways I really at this moment whether that was the died many times during the Hypersigil in
think I knew the price from day one, I knew right thing or the wrong thing, whether I various forms.

30 THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE

DB: So talking about the Hypersigil and or a four week run and then going away or absolutely there is that and yeah I have
how it consumes everything to take you to creating another piece of theatre or live art. gone hungry to do this, there have been
where youre meant to be, what was the So it was a case of that was the business days and Ive spoken to you about it and I
intent the Hypersigil was programmed side of it if you want. And again I say busi- know that youve done that with your art,
with? ness but its just to keep the people around but I think you have to be willing to give
me like my producer or the people in the that much be starving and suffer and all
JH: There was really two big intents and team happy so that they can see that its that stuff and I think the community will be
there were multiple, hundreds upon hun- being addressed in a business manner but there to hold you, to hold you aloft, but
dreds, of miniature intents for each cycle, really most of the work I do is always mag- when it happens, and when youre taught
for each stage of the spell. The biggest one ickal so I might say to, like when Vittoria all through your life by the society all
was really that (pause) I have two sons and was the producer, that this is going to be to around you that they wont and that youve
to be if you are a magician you supposedly raise our awareness and Ra Ra Ra!! But got to stand on your own two feet and
do, hopefully, have a sense of whats hap- really Im thinking magickally most of the youve got to do this and youve got to do
pening and therefore should be engaging time, I find it hard to be business like, I try that and be an effective member of society
with reality in a way to do dividends to your but Im not, I dont think many magicians in that way and they just dont get it and
offspring, and I dont actually mean just are really if theyre true, because if your there is all this stuff that exists that is beau-
children, to the people around you, to soci- following your true will a lot of the time tiful, its been one of the most amazing
ety you have to be a part of the solution that cant co-exist with maybe the business things to see.
otherwise youve no right practicing magick. side of how society addresses itself so yeah
Basically one of the key intents; I was those were the two intents really to address
thinking how can I be with my children the needs of my community and my sons
now and enjoy sitting with them if I know and also for business to hopefully raise
within myself that they have less of a lifes- awareness of FP and where thats going as
pan or less of an enjoyable time say in an organisation, to take that further.
twenty years time. I mean I can have maybe
ten years of pleasure with them before One other thing Id like to mention is that
things really start kicking off, if things are the whole Dark Nights project had no budget.
going to change like I think they are, and There was no budget for it, it was all done
then I look back that Ive done nothing. through Treadwells supporting us for the Since this interview took place John Harrigan
Whereas wouldnt it be better that I have no first three cycles and then 491 Gallery giv- and Foolish People have gone on to produce
time with them now, however long it takes, ing us the space to rehearse, so a lot of it Terra Incognita, a meta-event an open
and even if I do fail I can look my children happened through peoples generosity and source myth, an immense interconnected story
in the eye at some point and say,Well I being open positively. Actors all worked for told via multiple art forms at the 491
tried to be part of the solution rather than free, everyones worked for free, the whole Gallery. Their forthcoming work Desecration
part of the problem. So it was that, it was thing has happened through just being (details on page 32) looks set to even further
engaging with what I felt was wrong in a open. push the boundaries of art and ritual theatre.
To learn more about Foolish People and their
magickal sense in the biggest way I could
work visit their websites (below).
possibly do to illicit change. Now I dont DB: It is as you say a question of being
kid myself into thinking that the medium is open, of putting oneself and ones work out
enough to change everything but it was my there, engaging with community and doing
Websites
small as much as I could do, as much as a service for the community, because the
I could offer at that key time to hopefully work you do with Foolish People is very FoolishPeople
address the problems of my community and much, to my mind, a service to the com- www.foolishpeople.org
to do my job as a father to my kids. So its munity www.weaponisedart.com
a case, I saw it almost like going to war, www.myspace.com/foolishpeople
going away from my kids and doing what- JH: Thank you.
ever needed to be done, paying whatever Treadwells Books
price needed to be paid, so that I can be the DB: As such it is heart-warming to find that (see banner ad below)
father I want to be. the community has supported you in your
Now really that was the main intent. Other work. 491 Gallery
than that artistically and the lower, and I www.491gallery.com
have real problems engaging these two JH: Yeah, and its so beautiful when that www.myspace.com/491gallery
together, was to raise FPs awareness. happens because were taught that it wont
Awareness of FP within London and to happen. Were taught to be frightened of The Horse Hospital
keep us in London over a long period of where food is going to come from, were www.thehorsehospital.com
time rather than doing just a three week run taught to be worried about bills, and yeah www.myspace.com/horsehospital

Treadwells Books
We Buy Books - and give great prices
Website: www.treadwells-london.com MySpace: www.myspace.com/treadwells

THE ORACLE OCCULT MAGAZINE 31