1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

MIDDLE DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA

DE'JUAN THOMAS,
Plaintiff,

V. 3:17-cv-01595-SDD-EWD
SALLY GRYDER, JAMES LEBLANC,
JERRY GOODWIN, DOES 1-10,
Defendants.
___________________________________________________
BRIAN McNEAL,
Plaintiff,
V. No. 18-cv-00736-JWD-EWD
LOUISIANA DPS&C, et al.
Defendants.
___________________________________________________
ELLIS RAY HICKS,
Plaintiff,
V. No. 19-108-SDD-RLB
LOUISIANA DPS&C, et al.
Defendants.
___________________________________________________
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA

RODNEY GRANT,
Plaintiff,
V. Case No. 17-cv-2797-NJB-DEK
MARLIN GUSMAN, et al.
Defendants.
___________________________________________________

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1 30(b)(6) DEPOSITION OF THE LOUISIANA

2 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND CORRECTIONS,
3 through its designated representative, ANGELA
4 GRIFFIN, given in the above-entitled cause,
5 pursuant to the following stipulation, before
6 Sandra P. DiFebbo, Certified Shorthand Reporter, in
7 and for the State of Louisiana, at the Louisiana
8 Department of Public Safety & Corrections, 504
9 Mayflower Street, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, on the
10 31st day of May, 2019, commencing at 12:50 p.m.
11 APPEARANCES:
12
WILLIAM MOST,
13 ATTORNEY AT LAW
201 St. Charles Avenue
14 Suite 114, #101
New Orleans,Louisiana 70170
15 Representing the Plaintiffs
16
17 LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
18 BY: JAMES "GARY" EVANS, ATTORNEY AT LAW
JEFFERY "BEAU" WHEELER, ATTORNEY AT LAW
19 HEATHER HOOD, ATTORNEY AT LAW
ELIZABETH DESSELLE, ATTORNEY AT LAW
20 1885 N. Third Street
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70802
21 Representing the Defendants
22
Reported By:
23
Sandra P. DiFebbo
24 Certified Shorthand Reporter
State of Louisiana
25

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1 E X A M I N A T I O N I N D E X
2
3 Page
4 BY MR. MOST: 5, 39
5 BY MR. EVANS: 36
6
7
8
9 E X H I B I T I N D E X
10
11 Page
12
13 Exhibit E 16
14 Exhibit F 19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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1 S T I P U L A T I O N
2
3 It is stipulated and agreed by and
4 between Counsel for the parties hereto that the
5 deposition of THE LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
6 SAFETY AND CORRECTIONS, through its designated
7 representative, ANGELA GRIFFIN, is hereby being
8 taken pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil
9 Procedure for all purposes in accordance with law;
10 That the formalities of reading and
11 signing are specifically reserved;
12 That the formalities of sealing,
13 certification, and filing are hereby specifically
14 waived.
15 That all objections, save those as to
16 the form of the question and responsiveness of the
17 answer are hereby reserved until such time as this
18 deposition or any part thereof is used or sought to
19 be used in evidence.
20 * * * * *
21 Sandra P. DiFebbo, Certified Shorthand
22 Reporter, in and for the State of Louisiana,
23 officiated in administering the oath to the
24 witness.
25

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1 ANGELA GRIFFIN, 504 Mayflower Street,

2 Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 70802, having been
3 first duly sworn, was examined and testified
4 on her oath as follows:
5 EXAMINATION BY MR. MOST:
6 Q. Good afternoon, Miss Griffin.
7 A. Good afternoon.
8 Q. My name is William Most. I'm the
9 attorney for the plaintiffs in the four cases we're
10 here for today. Could you give me your name and
11 title for the record?
12 A. My name is Angela Griffin, and I'm an
13 Administrative Program Director.
14 Q. Miss Griffin, have you ever given a
15 deposition before?
16 A. Yes, once.
17 Q. So you realize you are under oath today?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. That your answers here today have the
20 same force as if we were in a courtroom with a
21 judge and jury?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Is there anything that will prevent you
24 from giving me your full attention and complete and
25 truthful answers today?

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1 A. No.
2 Q. Are you taking any medications or
3 suffering from any illness that would prevent you
4 from understanding my questions or answering them
5 fully and truthfully?
6 A. No.
7 Q. If you need to take a break at any point,
8 feel free to ask me or your attorney, and we'll
9 take a break.
10 A. Okay.
11 Q. Since you've done one deposition before,
12 you probably already understand this, but since she
13 is recording everything we say, it's very helpful
14 to have a clean transcript. If you wait until I'm
15 done with a question before answering, and, in
16 reciprocation, I'll try and wait until you are done
17 answering before I ask the next question. Will
18 that work for you?
19 A. Okay. Yeah.
20 Q. Great. Similarly, you are already doing
21 this great, but in normal, human conversation,
22 people often nod their head or shake their head to
23 mean yes or no, but we'll have to say yes or no so
24 that she can record it.
25 A. Okay.

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1 Q. Do you understand that today you are

2 testifying not as yourself, Ms. Griffin, but rather
3 as the Department of Corrections, speaking for the
4 Department of Corrections?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. So when I ask a question of you, you
7 understand I'm really asking a question of the
8 Department of Corrections, correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. When you give an answer, you are giving
11 me the answer of the Department of Corrections; is
12 that right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. So when I say you, I'm referring to the
15 Department of Corrections; is that right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. I'm saying Department of Corrections. I
18 may also say DOC or DPS&C, Department of Public
19 Safety and Corrections. I mean the same agency
20 with all of those four terms. Will you understand
21 that, if I use those four terms?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. When did you first learn that you'd be
24 doing this deposition, approximately?
25 A. About maybe a month ago. I'm not sure

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1 what time.
2 Q. What have you done to prepare for the
3 deposition?
4 A. We met with Gary and Beau on the 30 --
5 whatever the report is.
6 Q. Have you met with anyone who wasn't
7 aware?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Have you talked to anybody to find out
10 answers to any of the questions in the 30(b)(6)
11 notice?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Have you looked at documents or collected
14 documents to prepare for this deposition?
15 A. The only thing I have looked at is some
16 little notes that I have on monthly releases.
17 Q. Besides those notes on monthly releases,
18 have you looked at any documents or collected any
19 documents for this deposition?
20 A. No.
21 Q. In front of you is what we've previously
22 marked as Exhibit A. This is the notice of this
23 30(b)(6) deposition, correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You've seen this document before?

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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I'm going to go through the topics that I
3 understand that you're here to testify about today
4 and ask you about them one by one. Number 3 is
5 about the DOC's new training manual. Are you
6 prepared to testify today about Topic Number 3?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you look at any documents or talk to
9 anybody in particular about this topic?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Topic Number 5 is about whether the DOC
12 must honor judge-ordered jail credit, even if it is
13 for a crime other than the one the inmate was
14 sentenced for. Are you prepared to testify today
15 about this topic?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you look at any documents or talk to
18 anyone about this topic in particular in
19 preparation?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Topic Number 6 is, "How often DOC
22 employees find inmates who are past their legal
23 release date." Are you prepared to testify today
24 about this topic?
25 A. Yes, if -- yes. The legal release date I

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1 guess would be a question for me.

2 Q. We'll discuss that. Topic Number 8, how
3 the DOC handles time calculation and release of
4 certain categories of inmates. Are you prepared to
5 testify today about Topic Number 8?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you look at any documents or talk to
8 anybody in preparing for Topic Number 8?
9 A. No.
10 Q. So we'll take these one by one. Let me
11 ask you first about the notes on monthly releases
12 that you just mentioned. What are those notes?
13 A. It's just hand calculated that's turned
14 in that my employees turn in how many releases
15 they've done for the month. So I have looked at
16 the last month. What we're looking at right now.
17 Q. So that's actually a good question. What
18 was your title again?
19 A. Administrative Program Director.
20 Q. Which department within the Department of
21 Corrections does that fall within?
22 A. The PreClass Department.
23 Q. Are you the head of the PreClass
24 Department?
25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Who do you report to?

2 A. Derek Ellis.
3 Q. Who is an undersecretary of corrections?
4 A. Assistant. He is Assistant Deputy
5 Secretary or Deputy Assistant Secretary.
6 Q. But he reports to Secretary LeBlanc, and
7 you report to Mr. Ellis?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Correct?
10 A. I think Derek reports to the Chief of
11 Operations. Somewhere in there. I'm not positive.
12 Q. But you are the boss of the PreClass
13 Department?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And PreClassification is the department
16 that handles, my understanding is, inmates coming
17 in from courts and sheriffs coming into the
18 physical custody of the Department of Corrections;
19 is that right?
20 A. That their status becomes a Department of
21 Corrections status, not the offender himself. It's
22 any offender that is sentenced to hard labor or
23 DOC. We handle everything to do with them, their
24 time comp, if they're sentenced to serve hard
25 labor.

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1 Q. So your department is responsible for

2 time computation for all inmates sentenced to DOC
3 time, right?
4 A. The initial time comp, yes.
5 Q. Then another department handles if their
6 time has to be recalculated sometime within their
7 sentence; is that right?
8 A. We may handle some of them, also. It
9 depends on where the offender is housed.
10 Q. So your department handles all the
11 initial time computations for offenders and some of
12 the subsequent time computation for offenders?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. So you said that you get reports from the
15 people who work underneath you about the number of
16 releases they did that month?
17 A. It's a hand count. They turn the numbers
18 in to us just to see how many they -- workload
19 adjustment.
20 Q. When you say hand count, is it literally
21 written by hand on a piece of paper?
22 A. They're keeping up with how many releases
23 they handle on -- off of releases, yes.
24 Q. So you get slips of paper from each of
25 your time computation staffers each month with how

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1 many releases they did?

2 A. Right.
3 Q. Is it just one number or is it broken
4 down into different categories?
5 A. They break it down.
6 Q. What are the different categories they
7 break it down into?
8 A. Total. They give me a total releases,
9 immediate releases, and just monthly releases.
10 Q. So total is the total number of time
11 computations they did that month?
12 A. It's a total number of the immediate and
13 the monthly added together.
14 Q. What is a monthly release?
15 A. Where the offender is serving hard labor,
16 and he is releasing. Within the next 45 days he
17 comes up for release, and we work him in advance.
18 Q. So that's an inmate who someone in your
19 department does their time computation and sees,
20 oh, this inmate's sentence will be complete
21 sometime within the next 45 days; is that right?
22 A. Or someone that has been sentenced for
23 years, and his sentence -- his release date is
24 coming up. His time comp is already done, and his
25 release date is coming up.

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1 Q. Monthly releases means a time computation

2 person calculates an inmate's time and sees, oh,
3 this person's sentence is going to be complete in
4 the near future, correct?
5 A. It could be those, along with the ones
6 that are already serving time. His time comp could
7 have been done years ago. See what I'm saying?
8 It's anybody releasing, even if they've serving a
9 30-year sentence. His time -- his release date is
10 coming up in the next 45 days. He would be
11 considered a monthly.
12 Q. I'm reading it back to you so I
13 understand what you're saying. A monthly release
14 is an inmate whose sentence is going to be complete
15 in the next 45 days or so, correct?
16 A. Or more, right.
17 Q. And so an immediate release is what?
18 A. Is an offender who would receive the
19 paperwork, and we see that he served enough time or
20 is going to be within seven to eight days of
21 releasing would be considered an immediate release.
22 Q. Immediate release means, if I'm
23 understanding it right, a time computation staff
24 member calculates an inmate's time and finds that
25 either their sentence is going to be complete in

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1 the next seven days, or their sentence was complete

2 sometime in the past; is that right?
3 A. We don't -- we can't see if he completed
4 it in the past. The day we time comp it is going
5 to show us today or within seven to eight days in
6 the future his release date.
7 Q. So the system doesn't say whether -- you
8 do the -- one of your staff members does the time
9 calculation, and the system says, this person's
10 release date is today, right?
11 A. Uh-huh.
12 Q. That can mean either that their sentence
13 just happens to be done as of today or it was
14 complete sometime in the past, right?
15 A. That it would be immediate release for
16 the day.
17 Q. There is some inmates where you can just
18 tell their release date was sometime in the past,
19 right? Suppose, for example -- let me just ask you
20 that. Are there some inmates where you can tell
21 their release date was sometime in the past at the
22 time of time computation?
23 A. We really don't look at it that way. As
24 soon as we get the paperwork in, we see. To us,
25 his release date is today. We can't release him

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1 before we get the paperwork, so we don't really

2 look at it like that to see if we could have
3 released him back, you know, in the past.
4 Q. So you don't even try and figure out is
5 this someone who should have been released a week
6 ago, a month ago, or is this just someone who is
7 due to be released today?
8 A. No. If it shows today, we hurry up and
9 start working it to process the release as an
10 immediate release.
11 Q. I'm going to go through these topics one
12 by one. I'm going to be asking you some question
13 about the DOC training manual for time computation
14 stuff. I'm going to mark as Exhibit E this letter
15 from Secretary LeBlanc to the Legislative Auditor's
16 office. Is that right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Have you ever seen this letter before?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Look at Page 5. Do you see in the
21 paragraph that's entitled, "Management's Response"
22 about halfway through it says, "A training booklet
23 has been started to step an employees through the
24 time computation process."
25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. This letter is dated 2017, right?

2 A. Yes.
3 Q. In 2017, the DOC had started a training
4 booklet for employee time computation?
5 A. We started revamping one.
6 Q. Did you have one before?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What was that training booklet called
9 before?
10 A. We just had called it a time computation
11 training.
12 Q. Do you have that in your office?
13 A. I have an updated version, because every
14 year we update it and just give it out every year
15 with the updated information from legislation.
16 Q. You called it your time computation
17 training manual?
18 A. Manual or booklet.
19 Q. How long has PreClass had these manuals?
20 A. I've been doing time comp since probably
21 '95 or '96. I've had a copy of one.
22 Q. If there had been time computation
23 training manuals since the nineties, why is
24 Secretary LeBlanc saying in this letter a training
25 booklet has been started?

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1 A. We did start a new revamping the training

2 booklet and how we were going to do the training.
3 Q. The next sentence says, "Additionally,
4 DPS&C has implemented a plan to provide a basic
5 PreClass and Time Calculation training program for
6 all new hires in that department." You see that?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Prior to 2017, was there a formal
9 training program for time computation staff?
10 A. Not actually formal. It was more of kind
11 of what we do now, but we do the formal first, and
12 then it's basically on-the-job training.
13 Q. Prior to 2017, there wasn't a formal
14 training for time computation. It was learned
15 through watching other people in the department?
16 A. It was give them the training booklets,
17 and then, yes, they would be told what to do, but
18 still as of like today, they still have to sit with
19 someone to even understand what we're telling them
20 to do.
21 Q. Is there a formal training program for
22 time computation staff today?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. When was that implemented?
25 A. We started it after the audit, started

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1 making it, and gathering the information from the

2 beginning of PreClass to go through the process all
3 the way through time comp, because time comp is
4 just a part of it. I'm not real sure when the time
5 comp part was started and taught, that manual
6 itself, but we have training rosters.
7 Q. So the formal training for time
8 computation staff would have started towards the
9 end of 2017 or thereafter, correct?
10 A. Or after, correct.
11 Q. Exhibit D, which is the DSN grant
12 application, have you seen this document before?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Turn to Page 14.
15 MR. MOST:
16 Off the record.
17 {DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD}
18 BY MR. MOST:
19 Q. I'm going to mark this as Exhibit F.
20 This is an article from the Times-Picayune,
21 correct? Does it appear to be that to you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you read this article?
24 A. I've skimmed through it.
25 Q. Turn to the last page. It says, In

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1 addition to their attempts to replace CAJUN,

2 LeBlanc wrote that DOC was working on a new
3 training manual for the time computation staff.
4 More than a year later, that manual remains
5 unfinished." Is this a true statement or is there
6 a finished training manual?
7 A. Well, it's -- as far as the training
8 manual, it's, like I say, a formal training manual
9 that is a PowerPoint. It's completed now, and the
10 training material has -- it just keeps getting
11 updated. It's always been completed, but we
12 completed the formal PowerPoint training.
13 Q. What is that -- that PowerPoint training,
14 that's one document, one PowerPoint document?
15 A. The time comp is one. It breaks down
16 each section of PreClass or what happens from the
17 beginning to an offender releases.
18 Q. What are the other sections besides time
19 computation?
20 A. Receiving and verifying PreClass
21 paperwork, updating dockets and offenses, time
22 computation, and releases.
23 Q. So collectively what would you call
24 those, the PreClass training PowerPoints?
25 A. PowerPoint.

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1 Q. So prior to 2017, there was no formal

2 training program for time computation. It was ad
3 hoc people working with their supervisors and
4 learning as they go; is that right?
5 A. Pretty much. We worked with them as we
6 hired them and worked with them and just kept them
7 and verified paperwork until they learned one
8 process and moved them to the next process to
9 learn.
10 Q. Some of those people would be here at
11 headquarters? Some of the time computation people
12 would be here at headquarters, and others would be
13 at David Wade or other facilities?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. So without a standardized training
16 program, there is the possibility of errors
17 resulting, correct?
18 A. Well, the training booklets that were
19 given, they were standardized throughout. Everyone
20 had the same paperwork that you used to do time
21 comp. When it was updated in legislation, they
22 would receive the new ones each year. So they had
23 the standardized paperwork to do time comp. What
24 we did was made it formal to pretty much give them
25 the understanding -- the newer employees, really,

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1 the understanding of what each piece is and how to

2 use the paperwork that we have given them.
3 Q. The point of the formalized training is
4 to make sure time computation people are trained
5 right so they don't make errors, correct?
6 A. Not that -- I mean the training, the --
7 even the informal training. The paperwork that we
8 give is meant for that, to try and minimize the
9 errors. So the formal one was just because of the
10 legislation and to have something out there to
11 train them from the start to the finish the process
12 of PreClass.
13 Q. With a formalized training program, you
14 can expect fewer mistakes, correct?
15 A. I think in pretty much the same. If
16 there was mistakes, pretty much the same, because,
17 like I say, the people doing time comp, they were
18 already trained and knew. They had the paperwork
19 to know how to do time comp.
20 Q. You say if there were mistakes. Have you
21 ever seen mistakes in time computation?
22 A. Oh, yes.
23 Q. Let's move on to Topic Number 5, which is
24 whether the DOC must honor judge-ordered jail
25 credit even if it's for a crime other than the one

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1 the inmate was sentenced for. Maybe I'll read to

2 you my understanding of this issue, and then you
3 can tell me if I'm right or wrong. Sounds good?
4 A. Good.
5 Q. My understanding is that Article 880 of
6 the Code of Criminal Procedure says the judge isn't
7 supposed to give jail credit for a sentence other
8 than the one the judge was sentencing for that
9 date, right?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. But sometimes judges give jail credit for
12 a sentence other than the one they're looking at
13 that day despite Article 880, right?
14 A. They'll give credit, days of credit they
15 want the offender to get credit for, correct.
16 Q. Even though they're not supposed to under
17 Article 880?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. When the judge does that, the DOC has to
20 honor what the judge ordered whether or not it
21 complies with Article 880, correct?
22 A. Correct. Now, if the judge does not say
23 anything about Article 880, and he orders credit,
24 it's considered Boddye credit. He can get the
25 credit. Now, if he says give him credit for all

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1 time in jail, and he says pursuant to Article 880,

2 he wouldn't get the credit, because he is -- the
3 judge is throwing that Article 880 out there, which
4 says he can't get it except for the instant
5 offense.
6 Q. Boddye, that's the case that established
7 that the DOC is supposed to follow what the judge
8 says?
9 A. If he does not state Article 880.
10 Q. That's B-O-D-D-Y-E?
11 A. Right. Correct.
12 Q. If a judge says, give this person credit
13 without any explicit reference to Article 880, the
14 DOC must do whatever the judge said, period?
15 A. Using the credit we have at hand from the
16 jail.
17 Q. Because it's not up to the DOC to
18 determine how long someone's sentence is; that's up
19 to the judge, correct?
20 MR. EVANS:
21 Object to form. You can answer.
22 THE WITNESS:
23 Can you ask that again?
24 BY MR. MOST:
25 Q. Sure. The DOC's job is to implement

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1 sentences as ordered by a judge and the law, right?

2 A. And any case law that's out there,
3 correct.
4 Q. It's not the DOC's job to determine how
5 long someone should be in prison?
6 A. That's where you are catching me, should
7 be in prison. That's what we do. How long he
8 should -- time comp is seeing how long he should
9 serve before we can release him. Now, as far as --
10 the first -- I think you asked if we -- the
11 sentence of the offender. No, we don't determine
12 the sentence, but as far as determine how long he
13 serves, that's what we do, the time computation is.
14 Q. The DOC isn't deciding what someone's
15 sentence is just calculating how many days they
16 should be in prison based on the judge's sentence
17 and the applicable law in cases?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. That's been clearly established since at
20 least 2015 when Boddye came out, correct?
21 MR. EVANS:
22 Object to form.
23 THE WITNESS:
24 Correct.
25 BY MR. MOST:

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1 Q. Moving on to the next topic, which is how

2 often DOC employees find inmates who are past their
3 legal release date. You wanted to talk about what
4 legal release date means. Let's talk about that.
5 When I say legal release date, I mean that if you
6 take an inmate's sentence, as ordered by the judge,
7 and you apply the necessary laws and cases, for
8 example, applying jail credit, applying good time,
9 you'll come up with a day that that person should
10 be released, right?
11 A. Right.
12 Q. I'm going to refer to that as their legal
13 release date. Will you understand that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. So for every inmate or every person that
16 gets sentenced in Louisiana, they're going to have
17 a legal release date, right?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. How often does the DOC find inmates who
20 are being held past their legal release date?
21 A. That's hard to answer. I can tell you we
22 find pretty much daily offenders that are immediate
23 releases. Like I said, once we get the paperwork,
24 and we calculate it, He is an immediate release to
25 us. We have to work the release. We don't really

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1 look at should he have been out, you know, how long

2 ago he was -- he needs to be released today, and we
3 start working him. We can't release him prior to
4 us getting the paperwork or prior to him being
5 sentenced or anything. We don't know he's
6 sentenced. He is an immediate to us. We know he's
7 an immediate release today.
8 Q. Some of those people will be people who
9 are being held past their release date, right?
10 A. Past their release date?
11 Q. Legal release date.
12 A. Okay. Could be.
13 Q. Let's take an example. Someone is -- did
14 you want to say something?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Let's take an example. Someone spends a
17 year in jail pretrial because they can't make bail,
18 right?
19 A. Right.
20 Q. Then the judge sentences them to one year
21 with credit for time served. So on the day of
22 their sentencing, they have completed their
23 sentence, right?
24 A. Okay.
25 Q. Is that right?

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1 A. What you calling legal release date,

2 right.
3 Q. So the day of their sentencing is their
4 legal release date, right?
5 A. Right.
6 Q. There are some people in Louisiana sent
7 to the Department of Corrections that that's their
8 situation, right? Their jail credit is more than
9 their sentence, correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. So if those people are being held for --
12 who are still in custody weeks or months later,
13 they're being held past their legal release date,
14 right?
15 A. Right.
16 Q. So some of your immediate releases that
17 you see may be people like that, right?
18 A. They could be.
19 Q. You expect that they are, right?
20 A. If we get their paperwork after the
21 sentence, yes.
22 Q. But you don't know how many of the people
23 who are immediate releases should have been
24 released in the past or had a legal release date in
25 the past?

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1 A. No. We don't keep up with it. We just

2 keep up with he needs to go home, immediate
3 releases.
4 Q. So there are definitely some people sent
5 to the Department of Corrections who are held past
6 their legal release date, right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. But the DOC doesn't have any way of
9 identifying them?
10 A. Correct, until we get -- right. I mean,
11 if we get their paperwork, we work them. Again, we
12 call it an immediate release.
13 Q. You don't have any process of recording
14 them?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. You don't have any way of knowing who
17 should have been released in the past on an
18 everyday basis, but someone could go back and
19 figure it out based on looking at paperwork,
20 correct?
21 A. Looking at maybe there may be a time.
22 I'm not sure of paperwork, a time comp worksheet or
23 something and try and figure it out that way.
24 Q. Some entity within the Department of
25 Corrections may have gone back and done that?

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1 A. May have, right.

2 Q. We're going to move on to Topic Number 8,
3 which is, "How the DOC handles time calculation and
4 release of inmates who have, one, spent time in
5 custody pretrial, two, are given a sentence with
6 credit for time served, and, three, have a sentence
7 that is less than or equal to their period of
8 pretrial custody." Does that make sense to you?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So those are people like what we were
11 just talking about where their legal release date
12 is going to be the day of their sentencing, right?
13 A. Okay.
14 Q. Would you agree with that?
15 A. To me, it wouldn't necessarily mean --
16 all of these scenarios doesn't mean they would be
17 past their --
18 Q. So it is someone who meets all three of
19 these criteria; is that fair? So it's someone who
20 has been in jail -- does that make sense?
21 A. Yeah, right. I understand now.
22 Q. So if they meet all three of these
23 criteria, their legal release date is going to be
24 the date of their sentencing, right?
25 A. Right.

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1 Q. There are people in Louisiana who meet

2 these criteria, right, who are sentenced to DOC
3 custody, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. So for these people, they don't get
6 released the day of their sentence, right?
7 A. The majority of them will not unless we
8 receive the paperwork that we need to time comp
9 them and know he is sentenced and be able to do it.
10 We may have a few that we get the paperwork, and we
11 can release them.
12 Q. The only way they are going to get
13 released that day is if the paperwork gets to the
14 DOC on that day, and the DOC calculates their time
15 that day and then effects their release that day,
16 right?
17 A. And processes them for release, right.
18 Q. Have you ever seen that happen?
19 A. I can't say positively. It may have. I
20 don't know.
21 Q. If it happens, that would be rare?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. So for the majority of people who meet
24 these criteria, their paperwork is going to go from
25 the court to the sheriff, from the sheriff to the

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1 DOC, right?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Then the DOC takes some period of time to
4 get around to calculating their time, calculating
5 their time, and then effecting their release,
6 correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So for all of these people whose legal
9 release date was the date of their sentencing, if
10 it takes a week for everything to happen, such that
11 the DOC calculates the time and releases them,
12 they've been held past their legal release date by
13 a week, right?
14 A. From their sentence date, correct.
15 Q. If it take a month before the DOC
16 calculates their sentence, they've been held past
17 the end of their sentence for a month, right?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. You don't know how many people that's
20 happened to?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. PreClass receives all of the paperwork
23 for inmates sentenced to DOC custody from another
24 state, right?
25 A. Correct.

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1 Q. Some of them meet these criteria and so

2 their legal release date is the day of their
3 sentencing, right?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Other people are sentenced to maybe 20
6 years?
7 A. Right.
8 Q. Does PreClass prioritize time computation
9 for any of these groups of people?
10 A. We prioritize. We don't prioritize it by
11 years of sentence or anything, because you may have
12 someone sentenced to that 20 years, and he may have
13 been in custody that long and still will be
14 immediate release. We pretty much look at all
15 paperwork. Look at their sentences and kind of
16 look at the jail credit letter that we receive from
17 the jail and prioritize it that way, and those go
18 first. Anybody that's going home within 15, 20
19 days, those go on top. Work them. Then we do -- a
20 lot of the immediate releases that we receive are
21 faxed to us. Those get worked.
22 Q. You don't really know when they're
23 supposed to go home until you do the time
24 computation, but if you look at it, and it looks
25 like they might be going home soon, then you

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1 prioritize that one?

2 A. Correct.
3 Q. But there is no system for identifying
4 the people who meet the three criteria that we've
5 been talking about whose legal release date is the
6 date of their sentencing? There is no mechanism to
7 identify those people, right?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. So there is no mechanism to identify
10 those people and prioritize them, right?
11 A. No, sir, not until we start working them,
12 because it can look like he is an immediate
13 release, but be will be a parole violator and owe
14 more time. So there is other pieces that go in
15 there. Just because their sentencing they have now
16 may look like he needs go home, he may have
17 something else out there that doesn't let him go
18 home.
19 Q. Just to be clear, there is no mechanism
20 to identify people who meet these three criteria
21 and do anything special with them, correct?
22 A. No, other than what we do already. Look
23 through the paperwork and put them on top to work
24 now.
25 Q. Time computation people sometimes wait

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1 for the documents to come to the DOC, right, and

2 sometimes they reach out to the court to get the
3 documents directly, correct?
4 A. Pretty much we have to wait to know he's
5 sentenced. If we don't know an offender has a
6 sentence or -- there is no way -- we wouldn't know
7 to call. With that said, we may have on occasion
8 somebody writing an ARP saying he has got sentenced
9 three months ago. We may call and try and get the
10 paperwork from the jail so we can time comp them,
11 get everything done.
12 Q. So there is nothing stopping time
13 computation people from reaching out to the court
14 or to a sheriff to get the necessary documents to
15 do time computation; is that right?
16 A. If we knew exactly. I mean, other than
17 us doing our work that we have, but if we know --
18 there is a lot we have to know. Where he was
19 sentenced, when he was sentenced. They are going
20 to know docket numbers. For us to call, we have to
21 know a lot of that information. I mean, if we had
22 all of that information, no, there is nothing
23 stopping us from calling.
24 MR. MOST:
25 That's all the questions I've got.

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1 Have you got any?

2 MR. EVANS:
3 I only have one.
4 EXAMINATION BY MR. EVANS:
5 Q. Could you walk us through the example
6 that we were using earlier, someone -- well, just
7 anybody who is sentenced. What is the process from
8 sentencing to time computation?
9 A. We receive the paperwork from the jail,
10 which has to have specific things in it. His basic
11 interview, which is his personal information, jail
12 credit letter telling us when he was arrested or
13 bonded for us to know. His bill of information,
14 his UCO, and his fingerprints to verify it's him.
15 Once we get all of that, we verify the
16 paperwork, make sure it's a hard labor sentence.
17 That's when we go through it and make -- the
18 priorities are separated. They go to -- they put
19 in our system that we received the paperwork, the
20 date we received it, and his sentence length. It
21 goes to the next group who will update the dockets
22 offenses and the information. Then it's time
23 comped. Once it's time comped, if he is not ready
24 for release, his release date is in the future, his
25 paperwork is scanned, indexed, and it is in the

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1 system for his file waiting to be released when it

2 does come up. If he is an immediate release, it
3 goes to be -- it's every time comp -- let me back
4 up. Every time comp is double-checked. One
5 employee time comps it. It's handed to another
6 employee to check the time comp, and then it's
7 scanned.
8 But, if it's an immediate release, we
9 then start processing the release. We have to pull
10 his criminal history, state police, his FBI, clear
11 any arrests on it, and make sure he doesn't have
12 another sentence somewhere. Once it's all cleared,
13 check for any detainers. Once it is all cleared, a
14 certificate -- once we get the clearance sheet from
15 the jail, his certificate is issued. It's sent out
16 to be released. A certificate is sent for him to
17 be released either to P & P or the jail, because
18 different -- some of our jails handle the releases,
19 and then Probation & Parole handles some of the
20 other jails, and they go out that same day and
21 release him.
22 Q. Thank you. Also, you were asked a couple
23 of questions about the PreClassification
24 Department. I just wanted to make sure it was
25 clear for the record how that is organized. So

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1 tell us the organization of the PreClass

2 Department. Like, for instance, where it is or
3 where they are.
4 A. We have a PreClass Department here at
5 headquarters that gets the south parishes. Certain
6 parishes their paperwork comes here. We have a
7 PreClass Department at David Wade where northern
8 parishes send their paperwork to David Wade to be
9 processed.
10 Q. Other than those two, are there any other
11 PreClass Departments within the state?
12 A. No PreClass Department. That's the only
13 two right now.
14 Q. Do any other DOC institutions do time
15 calculations of any sort?
16 A. Yes. They all do time comp, because if
17 the offender is in their institution, he loses good
18 time, earns good time, gets additional sentences,
19 correction of sentence or corrected jail credit,
20 they all recomp time comp.
21 Q. You mentioned initial time computation.
22 Who does an initial time computation?
23 A. The PreClass Department.
24 Q. Assuming that it's not an offender who is
25 an immediate release or ready to go home, they just

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1 go to one of the institutions, what happens to

2 their -- I guess does PreClass have any involvement
3 in that computation or any future computations?
4 A. If they're in one of our institutions,
5 no. Once he leaves a parish jail and goes into an
6 institution, it's the institution that he is housed
7 at handles the time computation from there.
8 BY MR. MOST:
9 Q. Let me ask you a little bit about this
10 whole process. I want to know, roughly, how long
11 it takes for these different steps. From the point
12 at which the DOC gets an offender's documents,
13 roughly, how long, on average, does it take to do
14 the time computation?
15 A. It's going to depend on the amount of
16 mail we get a day. Usually, if it's an immediate,
17 and we get it in the mail this evening, it's not
18 going to be done today. It will be tomorrow we'll
19 start processing it. If we see it's an immediate,
20 and we can get everything -- we have everything we
21 need, and we can clear him, he has a short criminal
22 history, and we can clear everything, it may be
23 released the next day, or it could be try -- if we
24 do not receive everything, we are waiting on
25 paperwork, we can't do it until we receive the

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1 paperwork we need, or if he's got a large criminal

2 history, we can't release him until we get all of
3 the clearing back from all the different places
4 saying what happened to the charges.
5 Q. So is it possible for you to estimate how
6 long, on average, it takes from getting the
7 documents to doing the time comp calculation for
8 people who look like they might be immediate
9 releases?
10 A. For an average, it's -- we have some we
11 may do the same day. Some may take five days. It
12 all just depends on what is going on with those
13 cases.
14 Q. Does PreClass work on the weekends?
15 A. No.
16 Q. So anyone whose documents come in on a
17 Friday, it is more likely to take another couple of
18 extra days before the time comp is done, right?
19 A. If we can't got -- if we know he is an
20 immediate release on that Friday and can't get
21 everything done, right.
22 Q. But you don't know whether someone is an
23 immediate release until you do the computation, so
24 you could just, at best, say this person looks like
25 they might be an early release?

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1 A. Right.
2 Q. Do you have a sense of how long it takes,
3 on average, between someone's time calculation
4 being done and finding out they are an immediate
5 release and then their actual physical getting out
6 of jail custody?
7 A. Again, that depends on how fast it takes
8 the jails to reply to us, but once we've done the
9 time comp, and if we can get him cleared that day,
10 we get the certificate out that day. If not, as
11 soon as we get all of the clearing. It depends on,
12 you know, where we are getting it from. If it's
13 multiple jails, one jail, and we can get all of the
14 information, as soon as we get it, we issue that
15 certificate.
16 Q. How long does it take, on average, from
17 issuing the certificate to them actually getting
18 out?
19 A. The same day.
20 Q. But for inmates eligible for immediate
21 release upon time computation, there is no guaranty
22 that it takes two days or less from the DOC getting
23 the documents to their actual release, correct?
24 A. If we received everything that we need,
25 the documents, the clearing, everything, it's going

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1 to be less than two days. It should be that same

2 day we receive everything as long as it's within
3 the time that we can send it to the jail to have
4 him released. If it's 4:30, we're not going to be
5 able to get it out there to have him releases.
6 It's going to be the next, but if we have
7 everything we need, clearing, everything, it's not
8 going to be -- it's that day or the next.
9 Q. Unless it's a Friday?
10 A. Right. If it's on Friday, and we
11 received everything, we do our best to get that
12 certificate out to get him released.
13 MR. MOST:
14 Okay. That's all the questions I've
15 got. Thank you very much for your
16 time. This deposition is closed.
17 [End of deposition, 1:46.]
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25

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1 WITNESS CERTIFICATE
2
3
4
5 I, ANGELA GRIFFIN, have read or have
6 had the foregoing testimony read to me pursuant to
7 Rule 30(e) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
8 and do hereby certify that to the best of my
9 ability and understanding, it is a true and correct
10 transcription of my testimony.
11
12
13 Please check one:
14
_____Without corrections
15
16
_____With corrections (see errata sheet)
17
18
19
20 __________________________ ______________
ANGELA GRIFFIN Date
21
22
23
24
25

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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 This certification is valid only for
a transcript accompanied by my original signature
4 and original required seal on this page.
5 I, SANDRA P. DIFEBBO, Certified
Court Reporter, in and for the State of Louisiana,
6 as the officer before whom this testimony was
taken, do hereby certify that ANGELA GRIFFIN, after
7 having been duly sworn by me upon authority of R.S.
37:2554, did testify as hereinbefore set forth in
8 the foregoing 43 pages;
9 That the testimony was reported by
me in stenotype, was prepared and transcribed by me
10 or under my personal direction and supervision, and
is a true and correct transcript to the best of my
11 ability and understanding;
12 That the transcript has been
prepared in compliance with transcript format
13 guidelines required by statute or by rules of the
board, that I have acted in compliance with the
14 prohibition on contractual relationships as defined
by Louisiana Code of Civil Procedure Article 1434
15 and in rules and advisory opinions of the board;
16 That I am not related to Counsel or
to the parties herein, nor am I otherwise
17 interested in the outcome of this matter.
18
19
20
21 ___________________________
Sandra P. DiFebbo,
22 Certified Shorthand Reporter
23 Date: _________
24
25

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