If these idolatrous people were not committing blatant idolatry this would be

great. Raising your hands in worship of a human being is idolatry and an imitation
of what Paul says of the Man of Sin

" 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he
is God." [2 Thessalonians 2:3-4]

On the other hand it makes YHWH want to vomit, which term is abomination. Idolatry
is the one thing the term "abomination" is applied to more than anything else in
the Bible. And here we have the abomination standing in the Holy Place. And now we
must ask, does it cause desolation? If yes, then it fulfills Christ's prophecy.
Does God give them over to a fruitless faith?

And in fact these are the churches that teach that you do not have to obey any
commandments or be righteous in your actions, because Christ did it for you and it
is imputed to you as righteousness. This is contrary to the teachings of Jesus
Christ and of the Apostle John in 1 John, throughout his epistle. So this
phenomenon does in fact fulfill that prophecy of Christ in Matthew 24:15-25. Some
say that it was also fulfilled by my ancestor, the emperor Titus. Perhaps, but for
the End Times, these so-called churches are fulfilling it in their idolatry and
vain imagination about God and Jesus. If they would only stop their sins, then
their sins would be forgiven. Until then, they have not repented in truth and prove
that they do not agree with God about their sins and they try to make God out to be
a fool. I wonder how God feels about that!

========================================

And did you sully the white clean robe again? And why would you do that? If you
truly in REAL TRUTH were so grateful as you pretend in your vain performances, you
would stop your sins and obey Christ Jesus truly as Lord. But you not only continue
to sin, you justify your disobedience and as if that were not enough to completely
anger the Holy God, you teach others and prevent them from entering into salvation.
You are sons of the devil, not of the Father in Heaven. If you were His sons, you
would obey and stop your sins. You glorify Christ by sinning more? How can it be?
You do not glorify Christ as you really should, by using the power of the Holy
Spirit to stop sinning. Abominations and idolatrous people! Playing the instruments
to commit idolatry just as Nebuchadnezzar.

"4Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and

languages, 5That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp,
sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the
golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: 6And whoso falleth not down
and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery
furnace. 7Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the
cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people,
the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that
Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up." [Daniel 3:4-7]

=======================================

Ed Vogt Actually the problem is not with the Scriptures in the Greek, but with
the English translations, even the KJV. And I realize that the brainwashing was so
strong a delusion that you are likely to not actually hear what is being said. It
is like those who stoned Stephen when he tried to tell them the true Gospel. I pray
that your ear will be opened. Even if not, my words will stand as a testimony
against you if you do not obey the Gospel.
Matthew 5:17, the first time law is mentioned in the NT. The English translations
say "Think not that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets..." The verb
"think" is not anywhere to be found in the Greek. The verb that is there is the
Subjunctive, not the Imperative. So it is wrong on two accounts. Subjunctive = may
be doing; Imperative = must do. The verb is νομίζω (to do by law), from νόμος
(law). It has nothing to do with supposing, assuming, thinking, or these various
translations that avoid the true verb.

"You may not be doing by law because I come to loosen down the law or the
prophets. I do not come to loosen down, but to make full." And Jesus did make the
law and the prophets full by extending them to include hating someone as if they
were a fool for an extension to murder and looking at a woman for to set your
passion upon her for an extension to adultery, and many more.

The verb is not "to complete the law", but "to make it full", as if it had only
some of what it should have had in it. And this is the Sermon on the Mount. It is
exactly what He was doing in this context.

====================================

Ed Vogt Now about the rest of what you've said. You mix truth with traditions of
men and nullify those very truths you express.

Jesus is the Lamb of God. Do you really oppose the Lord Jesus Himself, who is the
actual Lamb of God by claiming that His sacrifice covers all sins of everyone
throughout all time? Where do you find that in Scripture?

In fact, we find statements to the opposite, which you will refuse to believe
because you have chosen to believe the lie.

Jesus:
"29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but
is in danger of eternal damnation" [Mark 3]

"32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world, neither in the world to come." [Matthew 12]

"10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven
him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be
forgiven." [Luke 12]

This sin is NOT covered by the atonement of Christ. And in fact it is so definite a
condemnation that it will not be forgiven either in this age or the one to come.

And in Hebrews we have it clarified as well, conditions in which there is no

sacrifice covering the sins:

"26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" [Hebrews 10]

"4For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the
heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good
word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to
renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God
afresh, and put him to an open shame." [Hebrews 6:4-6]

The Apostle John:

"16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and
he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death:
I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is
a sin not unto death." [1 John 5]

"12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou
gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the
scripture might be fulfilled." [John 17]

The only way that you can argue that Christ died for sins that were impossible to
have forgiven is if you see the Sacrifice of Christ as a deliverance to those who
accept it and a judgement against those who do not. But the problem with that is:
what do you do with those who CANNOT be forgiven of certain sins, because the kind
of sin forbids them from any possibility? That is why the sacrifice for sin is for
those sins which are possible to have forgiven.

Don't confuse this with the false Calvinist statement that says that Christ only
died for those people who would be saved. John 2 stands in opposition to such
belief. Christ died for sins of all people, whether they ask for forgiveness or not
for those sins. But regarding the particular sins that are unforgivable, Christ did
not die for those, or He would be in opposition to the will of the Father. We know
He was not in opposition, but completed the will of the Father perfectly.

================================

Ed Vogt "I’m either forgiven ALL of my sin, or I’m not." Not according to Jesus.
As I have shown, if you commit the unpardonable sin, then this is not forgiven
EVER. So your all or nothing about sin is unscriptural. This is tradition and
blathering of men to set themselves up to excuse themselves so they may continue
sinning and feel in their imaginations that they will be saved. Jesus prophesied
about such Christians.

"21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of
heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say
to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name
have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I
profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
[Matthew 7:21-23]

They continued to sin: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter
into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven". It is the Father's will that you sin not, that you be holy as He is holy,
that you walk righteously. It is NOT the Father's will that you continue to sin,
that you be unholy, that you walk unrighteously.

And if you do not walk in the light as He is in the light then the blood of Jesus
will not cleanse you from sin. "7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the
light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
cleanseth us from all sin." [1 John 1:7] The cleansing does not come first. First
is walking in the light again, second is restored fellowship with others walking in
the light, and LAST is the sins being cleansed by the blood of Jesus. It is
important to pay attention to Scriptures and not give in to the reductionist gospel
that prevents you from being saved.

===================================

@Ed Vogt Paul said there must be divisions among us to prove who has the grace of
God in actuality, not in their imaginations or false humility (Colossians 2). I
have come out of the idolatry of the Reductionist gospel and the disobedience it
breeds. By letting Jesus be Lord in actuality and reading His words as the MOST
important and confessing that I must not understand Paul in the points where he
sometimes seems strongly to oppose or Lord. As I approached it this way anew, after
being a pastor under the Reductionist gospel for 14 years, I finally heard the
Gospel of Jesus Christ, not of the Reformers. Paul made complete sense, finally
harmonizing with ALL the other writers of the NT. I simply recommend you take the
same path from where you are.

====================================

The Rooted Word

2 minutes ago (edited)
Hillsong? I cannot believe that what you are telling us is the truth. They are a
den of sexually immoral, liars, greedy leaders, lacking humility, leading people
astray away from the true God of the Bible, and tombs full of dead men's bones. God
heals, but it says without any variance that the prayer of a RIGHTEOUS man is
powerful and effective, not the prayers of unrighteous, sexually immoral, greedy,
and false teachers! That is GOD's OWN TESTIMONY! So it cannot be false.

======================================

Healed spiritually or healed physically? The context of that Scripture, which you
conveniently quoted out of context, is spiritual healing. Physical healing happens
at the prayers of a righteous man through the power and effectiveness of his
righteousness. God's Testimony, not mine. So it cannot be false. [See James 5]

======================================

And what about Paul and the thorn in his side? You don't think he had a heart that
was seeking? God said he must be satisfied in his weakness of this ailment, because
in this weakness God is made strong, through humility. So your implication that God
will always heal the physical ailment if you only seek him with a pure heart, is
erroneous compared to God's OWN TESTIMONY. And His testimony is never false.

========================================

Thomas' scrutiny did not nullify the resurrection. So you are incorrect, when
compared to God's OWN TESTIMONY. Are you calling God a liar?

========================================

Your faith cannot force God's hand. LET GOD BE GOD AND MAN MAN. You are not above
God that you can turn Him into a light switch to be turned on whenever you like. I
suggest, brother you stop calling God a liar and throw yourself on the ground,
humble yourself, weep mourn and wail, and let God be God! He chooses who He will
heal and who He won't. It is not based on their faith. Mark 5:35-43 The little
girl's faith had nothing to do with her healing. She was unconscious. Her faith was
unable to save her. You can argue that it was the father's faith, since Jesus told
him to have faith. But understand that the Greek word does not mean this magical
imagination that it means in our culture. It means straight forward "persuasion".
Jesus was telling him, "only be convinced!" It was Jesus who healed the girl. He
was healing so that they would see that He indeed had the authority to forgive
sins. Notice that he sent everyone away, except a very small group and then healed
her. He did not make a public show of it as the "healers" do today.

=======================================

The word mistranslated as iniquity is literally "lawlessness" (without law). Peter

was not indicating that Simon's problem was unrighteousness, but of lawlessness.
Peter was warning that Simon was NOT going to be saved in the end, because he was
still a slave to disobedience through lawlessness. It means that Simon was without
salvation at that point.

=======================================

You are contradicting the Scripture and espousing platitudes of men. Those who
espouse these always think these platitudes are more fair and smarter than what God
Himself Testified to in His Own Testimony. It does not say that the mark of the
saved person is unwavering confidence in God's Promise. It says the marks are
"loving your brother" and "not sinning" (1 John 3). In fact, John also says that
our actions from faith, the ones given as grace, assure us whenever our hearts
condemn us. It does not say that is the role of the Scriptures. It is the role of
the actions you have lived out that have come to you as a grace from God for you to
do. This is the truth of what the Bible ACTUALLY says.

========================================

You make a logical inconsistency that leads to a wrong conclusion. Jesus spoke of
someone snatching them from His hand, a third party. That does not exclude the
possibility of the sheep wandering off on His own. Jesus will go after him, but the
sheep must want to return. If he does not, Jesus will not lord it over him and
force him to return. And don't play word games like they were never sheep to begin
with if they do not return. There are far too many scriptures indicating and
warning us NOT TO FALL AWAY. You cannot nullify them from one misreading of one
scripture. Read it for what it literally says, not what you want it to say. You are
never forced to stay or to obey. And if you want to justify your continuance to sin
as often as you like, then stop calling yourself a Christian. Be honest and leave
or obey. If you cannot obey then you really must be throwing yourself on the floor
and weeping to the Father for His help in the Holy Spirit every day until that help
comes!

=======================================

You are partially correct, but you are missing a piece of the puzzle that would
correct the part that is in error.

There are four kinds of actions in the NT. The word translated "works", "deeds",
"actions" simply and literally means "actions". So let's use that word. It is less
charged than the others. Actions in the NT:

#1 actions that deprive you of an allotment in the Kingdom of God (erroneously

translated "sin" and misrepresented as "missing the mark" and equated with making
mistakes. The word for sin means literally "without an allotment"). These do not
include mistakes.

#2 actions that do not deprive you of an allotment in the Kingdom of God. Stop
selling your birthright by sinning (Esau).

#3 what we evaluate as good actions, based on our understanding

#4 actions that God laid out in advance for each individual to do, which are by
definition objectively good, since they come to you by grace.

If we have #1 and any others then we will not be saved.

If we do NOT have #4, regardless of what others we have, we will not be saved.

The only way to NOT have #1 is to do #2 AND for the Father to forgive us of any
#1's we have done.
The only way to HAVE #4 is through the power of the Holy Spirit out of meeting with
the Father in the Holy of Holies through the broken body of Jesus and covered by
His blood.