Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 1 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 1 E: Sergeant Joe Engman, Office of Professional Standards 2 W: — Attorney Kathy Weber 3 °R Officer Nicolas Roche 4M: — Sergeant McElyea, BPOG Guild Representative 5 HM: Hilary McClure, BPOG Attomey 6 7 E: Okay, we're on the record. 8 9 W: — Today is July 21%, 2020 at approximately 11:01...according to my I-Phone. My name is 10 Kathy Weber, and this is an interview of Officer Nicolas Roche regarding Formal "1 Standards Investigation 20-010. I’m here with Officer Roche and his representatives 12 Guild Attomey Hilary McClure and Sergeant Jason McElyea...I’m going to get it wrong. 13, 14 E: — McElyea 15 46 W: McElyea, his Guild representative and then also with me is Sergeant Joe Engman who is 7 assisting in this investigation. And just as an initial matter if we could go around the 18 room and confirm that everybody knows that this interview is being recorded this 19 afternoon or this morning and that you consent to such recording. Officer Roche? 20 24 Yes, my name is Officer Roche, Nicholas Roche and you have my permission to record 22 this interview, 23 24 W: Thank you. 25 26 HM: Hilary McClure, you have my permission. 27 28 M: — Jason McElyea and you have my permission. 29 30) OW: Great 3 32 E: Sergeant Engman, same thing 33 34 W: — Great. So, before we get started, I always like to start with a few introductory comments 35 that will hopefully give you a little bit better understanding of the process itself. As I 36 believe you’ve been made aware the City has retained me as an independent, fact-finding, 37 investigator to look into citizen complaints that the City fielded with respect to certain 38 social media posts that were attributed to you. And so, my job as the investigator is to 39 gather as many facts as possible including your response to the allegations and your 40 perspectives relating to the same and then ultimately, I report my factual determinations 4 back to the City. For purposes of this investigation as I mentioned I'm working with 42 ‘Sergeant Engman and ultimately reporting my factual determinations to the attorney, 43 Melissa Chin and the city attorney and yeah, I think that’ 44 45 E: Chief Mylett, I don’t know 46 47 W: and Chief Mylett, yes. So, that’s. .that’s who I’m going to be talking to. In terms of what 48 ‘my report might look like I believe I’ve been asked to prepare a written report, that’s my 49 understanding, ‘The most important thing today is just be as honest and is candid and asFormal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 2 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 WUSVSVVSReAQr2eesggegeges NISSSASSLSSLSSSIsaeasss Bara q SSRLSRl8aa forthright with me as possible. Again, this is your opportunity to provide any information that you believe is relevant or pertinent to the investigation. If at any time you need me to clarify any questions, please feel free to ask. Also, you have brought your Union representatives present you. Because this is a matter that could result in disciplinary action you are entitled to have Guild representation, I understand that you've exercised that right and if at any point during the interview today you feel or want to caucus with, your representatives just let me know and we can make that happen. It is considered to be ‘a confidential personnel matter so I'd ask that while the investigation is pending that you not discuss what we talk about here today or the investigation in general with any of your colleagues within the Department and likewise the City will treat it as a confidential personnel matter but recognizing as a public agency it can’t guarantee absolute confidentiality in all circumstances. And then finally I’m an attomey but I not acting as an attomey for purposes of this investigation. So, I don’t represent the City, I’m not here to provide it any legal recommendations or advice. My job is just to get the facts, report the facts and then once I’ve done that, I’m removed from any decision making that might ‘occur after the investigation has concluded. So, with that I’m going to tum it over to Sergeant Engman to. ..to issue the official directive in connection with the investigation, Okay, prior to starting the recorder you were given, or you have a copy of your formal standards investigation advisement form which you previously reviewed and signed. Do you have any questions about that form? No, sir. Okay. I want to make it clear to you that I’m ordering you to truthfully answer questions specifically and directly related to the matter under investigation and provide all potentially relevant information. Failure to do so will result in disciplinary action which may include discharge from the Department. Do you have any questions before we begin? No, I do not, Okay, thank you. turning it back over to you. Okay, so we'll start off with the easy stuff here. You are an officer within the Bellevue Police Department, is that right? That's right. And how long have you held that role? 2% years. ‘And what's your current assignment? I was a part of the traffic division... motors unit. Okay, and so can you just briefly describe for me what duties are associated with being within the traffic division of the motor unit?Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 3 of 37 ‘Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 99 100 R: I respond to citizen complaints for traffic enforcement and respond to collisions. I’m also 101 aa drug recognition expert so when there’s an impaired driver from suspected drugs I go in 102 and make an evaluation. 103 104 W: — And do you patrol as well? 105 106 R: We support the patrol unit but we're usually not primary. 107 108 W: Okay. So, as had mentioned the, the subject of this investigation today is reported social 109 ‘media posts that were attributed to you. Primarily Twitter posts and so as an initial matter 110 can you confirm for me did you at any time have a Facebook account under your name 414 ‘Nico Roche? 112 1130 OR: Idid. 114 115 W: Okay, and did you have at anytime a Twitter account under the Twitter handle @Nico 116 Roche6? 17 118 RK: Yes,Idid. 119 120. W: — Okay. So, I’m going to hand you and I’m sorry Jason 121 122M: — Oh, we're just going to pass them around. 123 124 W: Oh, oh...I wish I brought two copies. So, these are the posts that we're going to go over 125 as having been identified in the citizen complaint. And the first post that we're looking at 126 I... designated it as January 30, down below. Do you see that? 127 128 R: — Yes,Ido. 129 130 W: Okay, and is that post familiar to you? 131 132 -R: itis. 133 134. W: And did you post it? 135, 136 OR: Idid. 137 138 W: — And...80, it's a Bellevue Police badge, correct? 139 140 R: That is correct. 141 142 W: — What...there are two numbers that seem to be imposed upon the black band that’s 143 covering the 144 145° R: Correct 146 147 W: badge. What do those numbers signify?Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 4 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 148 149 R: So, those badge numbers are the badge numbers of the two Honolulu Police Department 150 officers that were murdered on January 18* of 2020 in Waikiki. { was for four years an 151 officer of the Honolulu Police Department and most of my assignment was in Waikiki at 152 that exact area that I was patrolling, and I knew those two officers. So, that was a respect 153 ‘matter. It’s common for officers to put a black band over their badge when there’s a 154 fallen officer. 155 156 W: So, the black bag...the black band symbolizes a fallen officer? 157 158 Rr Correct 159 160 W: Okay. And would you agree that by posting the badge and you're badge number under 161 your name that that designated your affiliation with Bellevue Police Department? 162 163) R: Correct 164 165 W: Okay. So, then if we tum to the next post which I’ve designated as April 24" post. Do 166 you see that? 167 168 RK: Yes 169 1470 W: Okay, and do you...does that post look familiar? 1741 172) OR: Yes 173 174 W: And did you post that? 175 176 OR: Idid. 77 178 W: Okay. What is being depicted in this particular post? 179 180 R: — There’s the hash tag in it together with multiple flags around it..the world and then 181 there's a solider with a weapon, there's an American flag with the white stars 182 and then a ship with a red cross on it and the solider has a frog hat. 183 184 W: And, so this post it...it appears that, that you created it as opposed to re-tweeting it...is 185 that right? 186 187 R: did not. I found it and posted it, but I did not create it. 188 189 W: — Where did you find it? 190 191 R: _...1.can’t remember honestly. 192 193 W: — Okay. Because I did a search and I couldn’t find it on the internet so 194 195 R: Oh 196Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 5 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 197 W: — I’mjust kind of curious in terms of how you might...how you might discover that? 198 199 R: — Idon't...it was on Twitter already...that I, that I had found it. 200 201 W: — Okay, but you didn’t retweet it. So, you cut, pasted 202 203 «OR: Correct, correct. 204 205 W: Okay. So, there appears to be a lot of symbolism in this particular post and let’s start with 206 solider himself. What is your understanding in terms of the significance or reason for the, 207 the frog face imposed upon the solider? 208 209 HM: So, can I clarify, can you ask at the time he posted it what his understanding was because 210 that understanding may change when someone tells you that there is an issue 21 212 W: Okay 213 214 HM: witha particular picture 215 216 Ww: Fair 217 218 HM: and an understanding of the 219 220 W: Fair enough 221 222 HM: ofwhat__thinkitmean 223 224 W: — So, when you posted the photo what was your understanding in terms of the significance 225 of the imposed frog head upon the solider body. 226 227 R: Yeah, the only time that I really saw that before I posted it was for the Hong Kong protest 228 where it signifies freedom, democracy. I lived in Macau which is a Chinese territory +2 229 Hong Kong for two years. I understand what’s happening there and what they’re 230 protesting for, and that they actively using the frog there I thought it was appropriate 231 thing. 232 233° «W: And I’msorry, you lived in? 234 235° OR: Macau 236 237 W: Ma— 238 239 R: Macau, it’s a Chinese independent territory like Hong Kong. It was given to China in a, 240 well given back to China in °99 where Hong Kong was given back in ’97. There 244 still..there’s still borders in-between and it seems like a current issue there, so 242 243 W: — Okay so when you posted this, this meme on April 24" it was a symbol that you had seen 244 used as a representation of freedom and democracy in Hong Kong protests? 245Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 6 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 246 OR: Correct 247 248 = W: — Were you aware at the time that...well, do you know who that frog character is? 249 250 R: — Tunderstand it’s Pepe the frog, right? 251 2520 W: Correct 253 254 R: Okay 255 256 W: So, did you know at the time that it was Pepe the frog? 257 258 R: — Notreally, no. 259 260 W: And what do you mean by not really...what does that mean’? 261 262 RK: LL...no, 263 264 «OW: And have you learned about Pepe since? 265 266 R: So, L understand someone told me it had...it was deemed by the defamation league or 267 something that it was an outright symbol. I...I researched a little bit about it. I was not 268 able to find why it was deemed like that when I researched it. It seems to be more of 269 label to me than finding something that really showed how alt-right is. I'm not even sure 270 what alt-right represents. an 272 W: Okay. So, that was going to be one of my follow-up questions in terms of Pepe's 273 affiliation with the alt-right. Do you understand what the alt-right is? 274 275° R: — Notreally, 276 277 W: Okay, so the alt-right group has been designated as a predominantly on-line loosely based 278 extreme right...right wing group that’s affiliated with white supremacy in various 279 contexts. Whether it’s the superiority of the race, anti-Semitism, anti-African American, 280 and so Pepe has been....has been identified as you mentioned by the ADL as a hate 281 symbol because it’s been appropriated by the alt-right as a symbolism of white 282 supremacy. But if it’s your representation this aftemoon or this morning that you were 283 not aware of Pepe’s association with the alt right at the time that you made this post? 284 285 That is correct. 286 287 WW: Let’s move on then to the, the 288 289° OR: Can I... 290 291 W: Uh, hum 292 293° R: — Sorry, can I just add a quick thing 294Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 7 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 295 W: Sure 296 297 R: So, this hash tag in there what it represented to me 298 299 W: Uh, hum 300 301 R: and what it still represents to me was a trend thing in it together 302 303 W: Uh, hum 304 305 R: and that’s what that original post is which is with Ephesians 6:11 which is a Bible thing. 306 The Old Testament 307 308 =W: Uh,hum 309 310 R: Sol... 311 312 W: — Okay, so table that because I'll defiantly want to get a copy of that and 313 314° R: Well, it’s here if you ask. 315 316 W: — Okay, and we'll...we'll talk about that 317 318 R: Okay 319 320 W: cause that’s one of the, that’s one of the symbols so we're still on...we're still on this 321 post. 322 323 -R: This...1, Imade this post after this. When I saw this, I thought okay, yeah, 1...1°Il post. 324 this hash tag and I'll find when I probably researched this, I found that may con__ 325 326 W: So, that in it together was a post that you....that you put? 327 328 R: This was posted by someone 329 330 W: Okay 331 332 R: — Who wanted to make the in it together hash tag trending 333 334 W: Uh, huh 335 336 and then I, I found this one...this image when putting it in together and that’s where I 337 copied and pasted it. 338 339 W: Okay 340 341 R: Basedonthe...to...tokeep it 342Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 8 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 343 W: — Okay. So, you did a hash tag you had indicated earlier that you weren’t sure where you 344 got this meme, but it sounds like you got this meme after typing in hash tag 345 346 RK: Yes,yes 347 348 W: — Init together 349 350 R: — Yes...yes, sorry yes. 351 362 W: Okay 353 354 OR: On Twitter 355 356 W: Okay. So, yes and we'll circle back to In It Together. 357 358 oR: Okay...okay 359 360 W: ‘Cause that’s the 361 362 R: — Good, perfect. 363 364. W: _one of the hash tags or one of the symbols that we want to talk about. 365 366 R: Okay 367 368 W: But, still focused on the solider. 369 370 R: ‘Yes 371 372 W: The solider also has a punishers skull that appears to have been imposed on his sleeve. 373 374 OR: Uh, hum 375 376 © W: Whats your understanding or what was your understanding at the time of the symbol of 377 the punisher’s skull? 378 379 R: _Inall honesty I didn’t even know it was there. It was a small photo and I didn’t even see 380 it. I just found the picture kind of silly with the frog and then In It Together with 381 the...with the red cross boat and all the flags and the American flag and then even... 382 cannot, I’m not even sure that I saw that the Q was in there or not when I put it. But for 383 sure that’s the first time that I see today that he had the punisher on it. I saw officers 384 putting those stickers on their computers or something before. I thought it was a law 385 enforcement thing. 386 387 E:; And Officer Roche just as a reminder if you could just keep 388 389 oR: Sony 390 391 E; —_ youknow project a little bitFormal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 9 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 392 393 R: Ofcourse 394 395 if you can with the mask....even bring it closer, 396 397 W: And has your understanding of the punisher’s skull changed since you made this original 398, post? 399 400 R: No, [never really looked into it. 401 402 W: —Are...are you familiar with the punisher being associated or affiliated with vigilante 403 justice? 404 405 R: — I'veneverheard of that. 406 407 W: And then you had mentioned the flag. Which appears to be a spin off of the Betsy Ross 408 original American Flag but in the symbol of Q. 409 410 R: Yes, yes. at 412 W: — What at the time did you believe that representation to be or to delineate? 413. 414 R: Again, Idon’t think I saw that there was a Q in the flag, Q...yeah. I didn’t, I was fairly 415, new to Twitter...I'm not really good with social media. I had zero friends on Twitter or 416 followers when I put it in there. a7 418 W: — Okay, are you familiar with the Q symbol? 419 420 R: Yes, now I’m more familiar with it. 421 422. W: And what is your understanding about that? 423, 424 R: It appears that it a...sort of information platform. Very pro Trump, pro president where 425 on that website they, there’s drops of information from Q. We don’t know who it is and 426 tweets from the President. This first original In It Together is one of the drops. This is the 427 kind of drops that Q posts on...on there. 428 429 W: So, Q posted or dropped that? 430 431 RK: Yes, correct. 432 433. W: — Okay, so were you aware at the time that Q dropped that? 434 435 R: can’t say I was. I, I... 436 437 W: So, you had mentioned that it’s an information platform, are you generally familiar with 438 the theories that are advanced with respect to...and Q Anon, 439 440 R: YesFormal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 10 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 441 442 W: — Q being the symbol of, of the Q Anon movement. Are you familiar with the theories that 443 are promoted by Q Anon? 444 445 R: I, printed another drop from here that...I have another one I’m sorry, so there's this one 446 that it seems to be very patriotic that’s patriots have no skins colored. ..no skin colored. 447 448 OW: Uh, hum 449 450 R: Which is Q. For me this is. ..this is what I see in there. The In It Together with the Bible 451 reference and, and this one here...it’s very small, it’s...it appears to be a Union solider, 452 African American Union solider holding the flag and it talks about the old glory...the 453 man in the flag is William Carney which was the first black solider to earn the medal of 454 honor. And it says, “All glory stands for freedom and equality for all” carried by Union 455 soldier’s during the civil way in a fight to abolish slavery, the flag of Lincoln. They 456 believe in something greater Méinselves. The flag represented a symbol of freedom, 487 hope, equal in prosperity. Old Glory knows not what color skin carries her, one nation 458 under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all to free from oppression. So, for me 459 this is what, what Q is. That’s..that’s why I’m surprised to see that we associate Q with 460 racism. ..where everything I’ve found there was actually quite the opposite...it was 461 inclusive and I didn’t know Old Glory, I didn’t even know the Old Glory was the Union 462 flag before I saw it there. I’m an immigrant, I...I put time and well, money to become an 463 American cause I believe in those values that I just put in there...that I just wrote I mean 464 read, sorry. This is why I wanted to be come an American because I was born in France 465 and grew up in Canada which [ already had two other options to keep my citizenship and 466 when I took the oath I swore to defend and protect the constitution and the flag...those 467 values that I believe in, 468 469 W: — So, you're a naturalized US citizen now? 470 471 RR: Correct. It meant something when I took that oath. 472 473 W: And you came to America because...1 want to make sure I understood correctly you were 474 drawn towards the...well, I'm sorry why don’t you just, can you restate that for me so I 475 get it correctly. You worked hard to become a United States citizen because? 476 477 R: Because I believe in those values. 478 479° OW: And the values being? 480 481 R: Freedom, equality for all. One nation under God... you know. 482 483 W: — Okay. So, at the time that you made this post you were not familiar with the fact the Q 484 has been also associated with, not exclusively but has been associated with all right 485 movements? 486 487 R: _I didn’t know that, and I never saw that. I am surprised to hear that, honestly. 488Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 11 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 489 W: — What about...did you have any understanding for the significance of the hospital crosses 490 on the warship in the picture? 491 492. R: Yeah, it’s the red cross. It’s the...isn’t it the medics that come to help the wounded. I’m 493, thinking, wasn’t there two boats at that time that were by New York to go help with the 494 Covid crisis cause they were in trouble in New York with the virus. 495 496 W: Were you aware that one of the theories that was advanced by Q and it was the USS 497 Mercy was the hospital ship, were you aware that there was a theory advanced by Q that 498 the purpose of the mercy being docked in NYC was to, was to save children from sex 499 trafficking because there were a bunch of burrows underground in which a global 500 sex...child sex ring has been operating and children were smuggled out that way? 501 502 R: heard that, I’m not sure I knew that at the time, I wouldn’t see that as a negative thing if 503 it was true. I’m hoping it’s not true. I’m hoping no one, no child is being abused like that. 504 If it’s true it’s horrible and I’m glad that they would be there to save them. Otherwise if 505 it...if it goes there like I believe to be for the Covid patients then that’s good too. I, 506 L..yeah. 507 508 W: So, it sounds like you’re familiar then with at least the theory advanced by Q that, that 509 there is a cabal of elitist that essentially rule the world and engage in underground child 510 sex trafficking? 511 512 R: _I...how is that related to my post on my Twitter? 513 514. W: ~~ Wellit’sQ. 515 516 R: It’s Q okay. 517 518 W: It'sQ. 519 520 R: [heard that, I heard that on the news too with the Epstein arrest and the Maxwell 521 arrest. I am not in power of...to verify anything. I, I heard that, yes, I did. 522 523 W: — Okay, and the Epstein arrest occurred before these posts? 524 525 R: Correct 526 527 W: — Correct. So, you had some familiarity with Q 528 529 OR: Uh, hum 530 531 W: _ priorto 532 533. OR: ‘Yes 534 535 W: making this post. 536 537° OR: YesFormal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 12 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 538 539 W: Okay. Is there any significance in terms of...this appears to be a, a scene from World 540 War 1, possibly World War 2...was there any significance in that? 541 542 R: No 543 544 W: — to you? 545 546 R: No, not for me. I think on the original it says, “Put on the full armor of God so that you 847 can take your stand against the evils schemes from the Bible.” I guess that’s probably 548 why the first person who put it together thought of that. I, I... 549 550 W: — What about the significance of all of the intemational flags? 551 552 Well, In It Together that’s the unifying thing of all the nations and I kinda like that 553 554 W: — Okay, so then let’s circle back to In It Together. 555 556 RR: Uh, hum 557 558 W: Because that also appears to be sort of a rallying ery or a consistent theme within Q 559 Anon. Walk me through, and I know you touched on this alittle bit already, but walk me 560 through how you came to be aware of the In It Together hash tag and what it signified for 561 you. 562 563 R: _ I, I got into Twitter to follow the President because I kept hearing stuff on the news about 564 ‘what he says and what he meant and everything, And a lot times I, I didn’t find sense in 565 there so I thought I would like go to the source and see what he says directly to make my 566 own research and then I saw him retweet other individuals and I would check different 567 profiles and I saw the In It Together there with the Q and based on what my 568 understanding of the Q which is the patriotic and equality for all and everything, very 569 positive and, and what I understood from it, I found that In It Together and then as a 570 Christian it’s in the Bible we...we’re all equal in the eyes of God we are all init together 871 to fight evil. Evil like from the Bible is anything bad or I remember the President 872 mentioning it’s a fight from good against evil there’s always the good and the bad in life 873, like that. We're all in it together and the good side to fight the evil schemes...devils’ 574 schemes. God bless you, and that’s what it means for me, that’s what, that’s what it 875 meant at the time, that’s still what it means to me. 576 577 W: Okay 578 579 R: _L...[ kind of wish now I found how everything there appears to be very evilest and racist 580 because I’ve never seen that and I...all I saw for all of those posts were things that were 581 making me proud to be American and confirming my decision to become one because 582 those are values that I believe in. 583 584 W: And when did you immigrate to the US. 585 586 R: Why?Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 13 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 587 588 W: No, when? 589 590 R: ‘Oh, when...in February 2012. 591 592 W: And when did you open your Twitter account? 593 594 R: Oh, gosh I think March, March 2020...sorry, this March. 595 596 W: And if understand correctly you joined Twitter specifically to follow President Trump's 597 Twitter feed 598 599 ‘Yes 600 601 W: — when you said you wanted to go directly to the source. 602 603 ‘Yes 604 605 W: _ So, President Trump tweets and so you joined for that that particular purpose, 606 607 Uh, hum 608 609 W: Okay. So, switching now unless Sergeant did you have any questions about that 610 particular post? 611 612 ~E: No, I don’t think so. 613 614 W: Okay. So, switching now to the May 20" post, does that post look familiar? 615 616 R: Yes, it does. 617 618 W: Okay, and did you...did you write that? 619 620 R: I did. 621 622 W: —_And what was, what was the sentiment for the thought behind that? 623 624 R: Frustration, I guess. I...I’m not proud it. I see it now and I...I that was a mistake I 625 should...I shouldn't have done that. I guess it led to frustration because we're all stuck at 626 home and we're all like we can’t wait to, to get back out and get our normal life again 627 and we sce other states that moves differently, and I was not...that was not reasonable. I 628 regret posting that. 629 630 I’m not sure...I’'m not sure which your post is talking about. 631 632. R: Okay, um.. 633 634. W: — Oh, I’m sorry it was...it’s, it’s at Governor Inslee’s reopen Washington State hash tag my 635 Governor is an idiot.Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 14 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 636 637 E: Okay 638 639 W: Sorry, I'll verify 640 641 E: — That’s okay. 642 643 W: that for the...or clarify for the record moving forward. Okay, well in the criticism that the 644 City received with respect to this particular post was the perception that as a law 645 enforcement officer you were affirmatively undermining orders that had been or 646 criticizing orders that had been issued by you know, state authorities. What’s your 647 response to that? 648 649 R: Again, I think it was a mistake from me for my part to do that and I apologize for it. 650 I...when I opened the Twitter thing again, I didn’t have any friends, I didn’t have anyone 651 following me, I didn’t want anyone to follow me. I never presented myself on Twitter as 652 a Bellevue Officer, that was very naive of me to think that someone would find me and 653, look me up to try to find me somewhere else to find my life and who I’m working for and 654 then put it all together to make and...you seize this and he’s saying that f, I...that was 655 very naive of me to do that and I apologize. I...I would have never said I’m a Bellevue 656 Police Officer and I think my Governor is an idiot. I...I’m better than that. Not much, 657 because they were able to put it together and put it out there for me to answer to it. 658 659 W: — So, and...and the Twitter account has been taken down, correct? 660 661 R: Yes 662 663. W: At the time it was taken down how many followers did you have? 664 665 R: — [amnotsure, |...it...maybe a dozen. 666 667 W: And were they personal acquaintances or...? 668 669 R: No 670 671 W: Okay 672 673 R: —_No,noit looked like either they were fake or they were people that wouldn’t be my 674 friends and try to follow me to catch me and. ..I’ve felt if I'd been more familiar with 675 social media and all of that I would have either, well block them to start with...there’s a 676 lot of things I could have done better. 677 678 E: Were there any department members that were followers of 679 680 R: ‘No 681 682 E: you? 683 684 RR: NoFormal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 15 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 685 686 ©E: Okay. On any account? 687 688 R: — On, on Facebook, yes. 689 690 E: Yes 691 692 R: On Twitter, no. 693, 694 E: But not on Twitter. 695 696 R: Yeah, But those are all Twitter posts. 697 698 W: Alright, so moving on to the May 24" post, does that look familiar? 699 700 R: Yes 701 702 W: — And did you post that? 703 704 R: — Tretweeted that. 705 706 W: — Re+, and yeah, sorry. 707 708 R: Yes 709 710 W: — Butnot the correct vernacular. So, you retreated. ..retweeted this, 71 712° RK: Yes 713 714 W: Now, you retweeted this from Stars and Stripes. Were you following stars and stripes? 715 716 R: No, don’t think so...no, No, [know I don’t. 717 718 W: Okay. Do you recall how you happened to come upon this particular meme? 719 720 R: No, sometimes you just read comments and people comment on big accounts and then 724 you scroll down, and you find those things. 722 723 W: — Butif you're not following Stars and Stripes how do you...how do you find it? 724 725 R: — Ifum, if...oh, okay Education for Libs I think I was following this guy. 726 727 W: — So, you were, you were following Education for Libs? 728 729, 2R: Yes 730 731 W: — Okay, and so then Stars and Stripes put something on that 732 733 YeahFormal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 16 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 734 735° W: and yousee 736 737 R: Yeah 738 739 W: — yousee the 740 741 R: Yeah 742 743 W: the post there, okay. So, what did this particular meme or, or tweet signify to you? 744 745 R: Well, hydroxychloroquine was tweeted by the President in early March. It appears to cure 746 Covid-19. I was following a doctor in France, Dr. Ratiell which has been treating his 747 patients in Marseille with that from the beginning as a world renown virologist, and 748 he...I saw, I read one of his paper and I read articles and he was able to get the lowest, 749 mortality rate for Covid-19 in the planet with it...the way he was treating it, with zinc 750 and hydroxychloroquine and other I thought good, positive things to help people. It will 751 cure a world of problems, yeah. 752 753 W: And what did you think that that meant? The cure 754 755 R: The problems of the world, that this Covid thing is a world problem. 756 757 W: — What about red pill. Did big red pill have any significance? 758 759 R: — It’sabigred pill. 760 761 W: —Butthe fact that it’s a big red pill didn’t mean anything to you? 762 763. R: [don’t know...not at the time. It’s just a big red pill. 764 765 W: — So, your understanding was this was a...that this was strictly a commentary on 766 hydroxychloroquine? 767 768 R: Yes, and I, I think what you’re referring to it might be the matrix thing. You have the 769 blue pill and the red pill 770 771 WwW: Uh, hum 772 773 R: So, ifit would have been blue, I don’t know if it would have said a big blue pill to 774 swallow I... think the real one is white. I took it, [took like an __ when I went to 775 Africa. I took hydroxychloroquine for two weeks when I went there. I maybe. .maybe it 776 is and it’s... don’t see anything else around it that would make it that or make it in a bad 77 way. 778 779 W: — So, you’re...you were aware of the, the connotation from the matrix. Were you aware of 780 that at the time that you made this post, or tweeted...retweeted? 781Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 17 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 782 R: —_ ’maware that that saying from the Matrix exists...did, did I was thinking, oh yeah good. 783 Matrix yeah take the red pill. It feels like anything I say is going to be labeled by 784 someone to be negative where in reality hydroxychloroquine should....should be 785 considered a good thing for people to understand what it is and what it can do. 786 787 W: Okay 788 789 R: That, that...that was my main, the main thing I...I, made me retweet this was just that, 790 hydroxychloroquine. 791 792 W: — Okay, so with respect to the matrix and the red pill did you generally understand that the 793 red pill signifies enlightenment and sort of a...a group 794 795 R: Wake you up 796 797 W: Yes, that you've been awakened to the truth or that, that only you know, a select few 798 have been red pilled and are aware of the realities and blue pill suggests sort of what’s the 799 word I’m...complicity, 800 801 R: I would say sleeping, maybe....yeah. 802 803. W: Uh, hum 804 805 R: Yeah, I think peo--, again I saw a lot of news talking badly about hydroxychloroquine 806 and I didn’t understand and I’m... was following the....that doctor and the President 807 tweeted about it, Elon Musk tweeted about it.I think that people, yeah maybe they need 808 to wake up and start looking into it. 809 810 W: Okay, so the red pill symbolism has also been appropriated by an all right type group of ait men to denote that misogynism basically, that that males are in fact the ones that are 812 discriminated and not females and 813 814 R: Oh, gosh that’s the first time I've heard about that. 815 816 W: Okay, so you weren’t aware of that 817 818 RK: No 819 820 W: __ particular symbolism, okay. 821 822 RK: LL...somy. 823, 824 HM: And just so the record is clear when she asked that you weren’t aware of that particular 825 symbolism you shook your head no. 826 827 R: Oh, yes. I was not aware of that connotation. 828 829. W: — Okay, so then the next post on May 25", I think you 830Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 18 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 831 R: — Oh, there we go 832 833 W: _ have already referred to it. So, this is the...this is the doctor that you follow that has had 834 success treating Covid with hydroxychloroquine. 835 836 R: — Yes...yes. 837 838 =W: And I noticed that the, the article or the video is...is in 839 840 R: French 841 842 W: _so...and you speak French I presume? 843, 844 -R: French is my first language 845 846 W: Okay 847 848 RR: have to learn English sometimes, yeah 849 850 W: Okay 851 852 R: if sound funny or 853 854 W: Oh 855 856 «R: _ if say something funny. 857 858 W: — So, moving onto the May 27" tweet or retweets 859 860 R: Yes 861 862 W: First ofall, do you follow Mike Bravo at Mike Bravo dude? 863 864 R: No 865 866 W: — So, do you recall how you happen to come across this particular tweet? 867 868 R: _ I don’t know if'someone retweeted that or if it was on the comments of something else on 869 my feed. I can’t...I can’t remember. 870 871 W: Okay, and did you happen to notice that Mike Bravo is, is sporting the punishers skull as 872 well? 873, 874 R: No, Ididn’t even notice that. 875 876 W: So, what was the...and I guess first of all I didn’t ask you, did you...did you make this 877 retweet? 878 879 R: Yes, Idid.Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 19 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche Suly 21, 2020 880 881 W: — Okay, and what was...what was the thought process in this particular tweet? 882 883 R: Well, I'm law enforcement. | arrested multiple people, I was trained in two different 884 states with very similar way to handle an arrest and I, gosh would... those guys would 885 have done what we're training here in Bellevue none of that would have happened. 886 None...they, it’s..I, I cannot be in their mind but they messed up to a point that they 887 stained law enforcement in, in the nation and maybe worldwide with how they handled 888 this and when you see the video and you see those guys, two officers grabbing him out, 889 there is a vehicle right there that they could have handcuffed him and put him in the 890 vehicle right there, It would have been the end of it. We wouldn’t have had all of those 891 justified protests and that horrible murder because they took him and they took him down 892 “40 yards, 50 yards across the street to go there, they give it to two more officers and then 893 all that more time for something to happen and something happened. Yeah, why... why? 894 There are two guys taking him here, don’t put him in that car just walk around to the 895 other side to the next car, give it to two more officers and then see what happens. That's 896 not how we're trained in Bellevue, that’s not how we were trained in Honolulu, ..those 897 guys messed up and... 898 899 W: So, in...in retweeting this it was more of a criticism of the technique that was used by 900 these officers? 901 902 R: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. 903 904 W: Okay 905 906 Don’t do that. 907 908 W: Okay, so then if we, if we go to the next page which is the May 28" thru 29 posts 909 there’s a series of tweets by you and do those tweets look familiar? 910 911, OR: Yeah 912 913 W: Okay. So, in the...in the first one in...and it goes in reverse chronological order so at the 914 bottom of the page on May 28" you're replying to Mike Bravo dude who had originally 915 tweeted or retweeted the video 916 917 R: Oh, yes 918 919 W: And you suggest that that maybe there’s some or maybe correct me if I’m wrong, but it 920 seems that you're suggesting that there’s some discrepancies in the video that call into 921 question whether the video is authentic? 922 923 R: No 924 925° W: Is that... 926 927. R: No 928Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 20 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21,2020 929 W: — Okay, so what was 930 931 | think there is discrepancies on how poorly they handled the situation. 932 933 W: Okay, and so then the next tweet where you say you have a feeling that the video is going 934 to disappear and you ask about extracting a copy of it, why did you feel like the video 935 would disappear? 936 937 Because a lot of the videos were edited and it looks like it was like the one that have 938 everything on it and it was a long movie with down time, I guess and that’s the only one 939 that I could find that how poorly they handled the moment where the EMT came and it 940 makes them look bad too because we respond to a lot of scenes where EMT’s come and 941 the way of first responders are trained is render aide first. Officers, if you see someone 942 unconscious, okay... won't even talk about him kneeling on him because I hope 943 something's coming for him... justice. But when an EMT comes in and sees someone 944 unconscious and just takes his pulse like ehh, like this very...it doesn’t seem like he cared 945 and like, well then if he’s not dead, you better get your material and work on him, wake 946 him up and render aide like you were trained to do, or if he’s not then you don’t touch the 947 body. We have a homicide investigation and the way they come, and they drag him with 948 his cufls...it’s horrible. This video will stain law enforcement for, for a long....long time. 949 And I, I... don’t understand how, yeah. I’m glad we're not trained that way here. I, 950 1,,.that’s all I’m going to say. 951 952 W: _ So, but again the original tweet or retweet from, from Mike Bravo is saying. ..it’s calling 953 into question that the car in the restaurant footage doesn’t match the one he was killed 954 behind and the cops that killed him are not the ones that arrested him which you know, 955 again to me as I’m reading this just suggests that maybe Mike Bravo is thinking this is 956 doctored, that this is 957 958 R: No, I don’t think so. 959 960 W: So, that’s not how you would interpret it. 961 962 R: _ Itnever meant that to me. 963 964 W: Okay. So, then a little bit later on March 28" you mentioned to 965 966 R: May 28" 967 968 W: — May 28", yes so, we're still on the May 28" through 29" post 969 970 R: Yeah 971 972 W: — Youreplied to X22 report that you only listen to reports from the BitChute channel? 973 974 R: Yes, yes. 975 976 W: And whyis that? 977Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 21 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 978 R: Because they are censoring a lot of things on U-Tube lately. It looks like they're 979 censoring. ..they fact check the President on Twitter. There's a lot of weird things 980 happening now on the internet. I...I’m so happy I took a break from all of that since this 981 event happened. It feels sometimes that you're getting dragged into this and then you 982 read and then there’s a lot of information and all...all I want to do is go in there to try to 983 get a new or different points of views to, to listen to what people have to say, to, t0...t0 984 provoke a little bit, to you know, get a discussion to...and, and it seems like there’s 985 always, there’s a hammer here waiting for you to say or imply something to, to crush you 986 down and oh my gosh I’m so, I’m so happy I’m out of there. I, I felt like I, I've seen now 987 how I got...1, I, Iwas naive and got in there and just thought that yeah, it’s okay I don’t 988 know anyone just like see your thing, do your thing, then. ..and then if when you want to 989 talk to people you know you care for go on this other platform, Facebook where you have 990 friends and, and stuff like that. Yeah, that’s... 991 992 W: So, you saw Twitter as more of an information platform? 993 994 RR: ‘Yes 995 996 W: Okay, and so BitChute though, am I correct in my understanding that that a channel that 997 basically will host forums that have been censored from U-Tube and other more main- 998 stream channels because of content... because of so, a lot of alt-right, a lot of hate you 999 know groups have gone to BitChute. 1000 1001 R: Okay. I, think on one of his view he said go to BitChute because they were censoring 1002 him. 1003 1004 W: Who's him? 1005 1008 R: — The X22 report. 1007 1008 «WW: Okay 1009 1010 R: That's who I was talking to. 1011 1012 W: Uh, hum 1013 1014 R: That's the first time I hear that...alt right thing. Now I’m not surprised since it’s the 20" 1015 time I hear it today. I, I don’t even know what to say anymore. I, I’ve never seen it like 1016 that. I never seen anything like raciest that would exclude anyone there. I never seen 1017 anything hateful there. I’m not going there looking at everything thinking about 1018 everything I'm, it's like a video show or something and then....that’s it. It, it doesn’t harm 1019 anyone. It, it.,.yeah, I never. 1020 1021 W: Okay, and along the lines of BitChute did you ever go to channels like, and I know it’s, 1022 it’s I think it’s down now but 4 Chan or 8 Chan or Redit, any of those channels? 1023 1024 R: No. I’ve heard of Redit for gaming stuff. 1025 1026 W: I'm sorry, for what?Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 22 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 1027 1028 R: [’veheard of Redit for gaming, I thought Redit was like 1029 1030 W: Gaming 1031 4032 R: Gaming 4033, 1034 W: Uh, hum 1035 Adon wes Anil 1036 R: heard 4 channel faprtsehor something, but... have no knowledge. I don’t want to talk 1037 about those things, .. 1038 1039 W: Okay. So, going up a little bit more, still in May 28" who is @EllenOchol? You replied 1040 to her. 4041 1042 R: No, it’s a Twitter person. 1043 1044 W: — Was that somebody that you followed? 4045 1046 RK: Yes 1047 1048 W: — Okay. And then the next post is on May 29" the swamp runs deep, and it’s God wins and 1049 education , and I think that you already mentioned that you followed 1050 4051 R: Yeah 1052 1053 W: Education. 1054 1055 RR: Yes 1056 1057 W: _Did you happen to notice the God wins also has the punisher skull? 1058 4059 R: Um, now yep, yep 1060 1061 W: — Butno significance at the time that you retweeted that? 1062 1063 R: No 1064 1065 W: So, lets...what was the thought process in terms of retweeting that particular tweet from 1086 God wins? 1067 1068 R: Well it appears most of it are things that the President tweeted or said. So, it appears to be 1069 something that the President is talking about all together. 1070 1071 W: Do you know what was meant by Fauci is a bioterrorist? 1072 1073, No, I still don't. 1074 1075 So, if'you didn’t know what the content was why did you...why did you retweet it?Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 23 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 1076 1077 R: You know what I can’t answer that. I don’t even know what PP stands for. 1078 1079 W: That was going to be my next question. 1080 1081 R: Okay, Idon’t. 1082 1083 W: You don’t know what PP 1084 1085 R: No, no 1086 1087 W: stands for. Okay 1088 1089 I’m sorry what was that PP 1090 1091 W: PP 1092 1093 E: Okay 1094 1095 R: Yeah, and I don’t know what that is or if it’s someone or an organization. 1096 1097 W: — Okay, and any idea what the reference to NYNJPA&MI Governors are murderers? What 1098, that is related to? 1099 1100 R: __Itappears that on...to governors of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and I’m not 1101 sure, Michigan. ..allegedly sent back infected patients in nursing homes knowingly and 1102 spread the virus on the particular category of people and it raised the death count 1103 significantly. I’m very happy I didn’t have a family member in those nursing homes 1104 because I understand that maybe up to a certain point there can be investigations of 1105 people dying which would make it be a homicide investigation. I’m not saying...I’m not 1106 a homicide investigator but I know that per the law it’s the proper thing, so... yeah, that’s 1107 my understanding of it. 1108 1109 W: And then lastly, we have on May 29" for those who were told they had to wear a mask 1110 everywhere at all times #Covid idiots. What was...what was the thought or the sentiment 1111 behind that? 4112 1113 R: _Itappears since this whole thing started everyone is saying everything. I mean one week 1114 where we're told it’s stops the virus the next thing, we know it doesn’t. Like it does if 1115 you have this kind and it’s that way and then it doesn’t, and, and all of this happened at 1116 a... think we were all and that’s not...I’m not trying to say it’s an excuse, [ think we're 1117 all tired of everything that’s happening because its dragging, it’s tiring everyone get 1118 exhausted. I have....it was also before the time where it was mandatory by the State, 1119 1120, W: Uh, hum 1121 1122 R: It was like you can wear it then or you don’t have to. Just like when at the beginning 1123 when it was the worst, they said you don’t have to wear a mask it doesn’t do anything. 1124 So, we would go about our business and just wear it when it seems dangerous. And, andFormal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 24 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135, 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143, 1144 1145, 1146 1147 1148, 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 z 27 4 it, it appeared like the city at some point just to wear it...to wear it because a journalist would tell you this instead of the doctors or someone of authority would tell you that it’s mandatory. I...I still think it’s inappropriate to use that term. I apologize for it just like the Governors one. I think it comes out more of a frustration situation. I shouldn’t have done that, and it’s my mistake. That was inappropriate. But now that it’s...yeah, a mandatory thing I would not question any of that. Okay, so then if we tum to the next page. Kathy, would it be appropriate for a quick break, or Sure Is this a good time for us? Yeah, sure. Okay, alright get a little air... Okay, the time is currently 12:09 and we're going to pause the interview. Okay, so we're resuming the interview with Officer Roche, it’s now 12 about 12:19 hours. Okay, so when we breaked we were about to talk about the June 2™ post in the materials. And first of all is that post familiar? Yes And,..and did you, well tweet that...did you tweet that? did. And it looks like it was tweeted to Ellen Oachel. Yes ‘What was the reason for this tweet? Just like the In It Together, it was a trending thing. Make the wwgl wga trending, It was trending where? On Twitter, sorry...that was another Twitter post. ‘And is that...that’s a picture of you in the photo? ‘Yes ‘And you're in your SWAT gear, is that correct?Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 25 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 1182 1183 1184 1185 1186 1187 1188 1189 1190 1191 1192 1193 1194 1195, 1196 1197 1198 1199 1200 1201 1202 1203, 1204 1205 1206 1207 1208 1209 1210 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 1221 1222 R: Ww: R: w I'm in my crowd control gear. Crowd control, yeah...okay. And did you impose wwgl wga onto your photo? Yes, I did. And what’s the significance of that acronym? Where we go 1, we go all. ‘And what does that mean? I printed out a picture from Q Uh, hum It’s an American flag with 4 hands holding one another. There’s the hand of a Caucasian male, what appears to be an Asian male, African American or African and a Latino Uh, hum holding each other in front of the flag, Patriots...again has no skin color we, we have the same blood, we salute the same flag, a unifying thing, ‘And where did you get that? FromQ The picture from Q? The Q website. The Q website. Who is we? All of us. Humanity. ..the ones like the...well there’s the American flag so I would say we Americans. Okay. So, would you not agree that the saying, where we go 1, we go all Yes suggests something other than everybody? It doesn’t...doesn’t it if there’s one person that everybody goes with them that, that doesn’t seem to be a universal sentiment. I guess what I’m trying to figure out is that where we go I, we go all seems to suggest that there’s a group of we that supports the I.Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 26 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 1223 R: No 1224 12250 W: Is that not 1226 1227 R: No, well not...not for me, not where I took it from. I never seen anyone actually using it 1228 in an exclusion way. No, and for me where we go on, we go all, it...it first came from the 1229 Democrat President John F. Kennedy on the bell on his boat on his yacht that was 1230 engraved on it, I actually took a photo of that too. Here... 1231 1232 W: Uh, hum 1233 1234 R: The Democrat President...a great President I believe. No, for me we're all in it together. 1235 We're all like unified there’s no....it recognizes no skin colors. 1236 1237 W: Okay, but you got this off the Q website? 1238 12390 RR: Yes 1240 1241 W: — And you didn’t interpret “we” to be Q Anon followers. 1242 1243 R: No, no...I, I found it to be more universal than that. I’ve never seen anything there that 1244 would suggest that Q Anon’s were a selected few apart from everyone. I never had... 1245 1246 W: — So, on Q Anon’s so it sounds like you have followed Q Anon’s sites or affiliated sites? 1247 1248) R: Yes 1249 1250 W: — And you’ve never seen the sentiment that there is a group of enlightened persons, those 1251 that have those that have followed Q, those who understand Q’s drops, that those are the 1252 enlightened ones that see the truth? 1253 1254 RR: No 1255 1256 W: You've never seen that on any of the Q? 1257 1258 R: No, what I saw was just unifying, universal love. Positive, inclusive, patriotic. 1259 1260 E: — Doesn't Q profess or at least state that there’s a deep state conspiracy and that 1261 1262 R: Well, the President talks about the deep state a lot. I...the French President mentioned it. 1263 Imean I, I don’t know those things. I cannot verify those things. I hear Presidents talking 1264 about it...I don’t know what to say about that. 1265 1268 W: — What about, because again one of the theories that is advanced on Q Anon is that there is 1267 deep state cabal that believes that are engaged in various you know misdeeds 1268 1269 R: Uh, hum 1270 1271 W: and many of those miscreants if you will are politicians and Hollywood celebrities.Formal Standards Investigation 20-010 Page 27 of 37 Statement of Officer Nicolas Roche July 21, 2020 1272 1273, OR: Uh, hum 1274 1275 WW: Hilary Clinton is, is one. Adam Storos | think is his name is another. So, you never saw 1276 any evidence of that suggesting that there’s a league of them. 1277 1278 R: — Umyno...no. I, 'heard those stories...again it’s I...it’s bigger than me I kind of wish it 1279 doesn’t exist because it would paint a very...it could paint a very dark side of people. On 1280 the other hand when we tum on the TV and we see all the Epstein and, and __ 1281 Maxwell thing and, and they keep putting pictures or you know, mentioning Bill Clinton 1282 and Prince Andrew but those things are not...are, I don’t...we'll see you know if those 1283 things happens but I don’t want to...I can’t comment those things I’m not investigating 1284 this, I’m not... 1285 1286 W: But you were generally aware that these were theories that were being advanced through 1287" 1288 =R: — Yes...yes 1289 1290 W: QAnon. Okay, so again that would be something other than universal love. ..that would 1291 be there’s a good side and a bad side. Would that not be accurate? 1292 1293 R: — Well if...if there is, if there is arrest of pedophiles and stuff like that, I think that most of 1294 those people would say that, yeah those people who are getting arrested are doing this are 1295 on the bad side and those victims, God bless them, that you know they are on the good. 1296 side but I...those, those are things that are on the news pretty much. I don’t see how this 1297 is like a conspiracy of us against them or anything. I, I still don’t...I still believe that 1298 when I see those posts and those things that it's more__and this is what it says too, 1299 1300 W: Uh, hum, Okay, but when you post a photo of yourself in crowd control gear, or riot gear 1301 1302, R: Yeah 1303 1304 W: with the #where we go 1, we go all 1305 1306 R: ‘Yes 1307 1308 W: You don’t see that as having the potential to be negatively interpreted as your going 1309 against the people that you're trying to control? 1310 1311 R: Those are mandatory gears that we have to wear. We don’t choose to wear those; they are 1312 appropriate for the manner that they are being used for. We're here to protect them, it’s 1313 their 1* Amendment right. We're not fighting them... never fought anyone with that. If 1314 people commit crimes, we have to be able to go in there and do...enforce the law. 1315 ‘There’s a big thing about like Blue Lives Matter too. 1316 1317 W: Uh, hum 1318 1319 R: I think that it includes the fact that even us blue that could look like scary, we're there 1320 with you too, we're all in there together. We're all trying to find out what’s wrong right