What is the difference between Typograph and

Lithograph?
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tomd
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What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 16 Oct 2014 03:21

I have been working on my stamps from Argentina and ran into this problem.

I also see there are more with the same distinction that I am going to have to tell the
difference with.

That distinction is whether it is a typograph or Lithograph printing.

The two stamp are Scott's 427 and 427d

Everywhere I have looked no one has a clue, especially the sites selling these stamps.

People are just putting what ever they have as Scott's 427 and forgetting about 427d.

Does anyone have any guidance for me?

I figure this is 429d

and this is 429
Last edited by tomd on 16 Oct 2014 03:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Typo vs Litho

Post by Global Administrator » 16 Oct 2014 03:23

Tom.. please READ Rule 10 re using headings that actually mean something.

"Typo vs Litho"
Does NOT mean a thing to anyone!

You have an hour to edit.

Thanks
.
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JonEboy
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by JonEboy » 16 Oct 2014 04:19

Hi tomd,

In Stanley Gibbons 'Collect British Stamps' they offer the following as the distinction;
The image on a photogravure stamp is created from a pattern or 'screen' of minute
dots which are not evident when looking at the stamp without a glass but show up
quite clearly under magnification.....

'Screens' of dots are also used in the production of litho printed stamps but they are
only required where the printer is attempting to produce shades and tints.... Where
solid colour is used.....there is no need to resort to a screen of dots and the background
is printed as a solid mass of colour
The answer therefore is to look under magnification and see if you can see dots. If
you can then it is gravure otherwise it is litho.

If you have any GB machins around then these are great to practice on as you will see
by looking at a number of them that there is a distinct difference.

Hope this helps?

Jon
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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 16 Oct 2014 04:28

Thank you it does, I do appreciate it JonEboy.

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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 16 Oct 2014 04:47

No dots, so they are Lithograph's.

I had a 3p GB machins to compare with, it had the dots.

Now it looks so easy.
Thank you again.

And I am sorry about the short title I had in the beginning Sheriff.
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pogopossum
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by pogopossum » 16 Oct 2014 13:16

Isn't typograph and lithograph different from photogravure? I see typo and litho as the
printing method for stamps before the advent of photogravure.

Cheers,
Pogopossum
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europhil
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by europhil » 16 Oct 2014 14:33

Does anyone have any guidance for me?

Read the introduction to Scott.

And where did photogravure come from? It is completely different

from Typo. and Lith. - no dots!
Jay Carrigan
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by JonEboy » 16 Oct 2014 18:29

europhil wrote: And where did photogravure come from? It is completely different
from Typo. and Lith. - no dots!
Good spot Jay. In my haste it appears that I did not interpret the question as well as I
should have done and may have therefore sent Tom on a wild goose chase.

Of course, typography is also referred to as letterpress (see here) and I must confess I
have no clear way of distinguishing between the two processes. Now officially out of
my depth

Jon
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by Alastair » 16 Oct 2014 18:46

Hello,

I will take the plunge though I don't guarantee to be 100% correct.

For me, typography, when used in the context of stamp production, uses metal dies
whereas lithography uses stone dies (greek 'lithos' = stone).

Alastair
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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 16 Oct 2014 23:41

Ok here is the official information from Scott's catalog.

Printing Processes as by Scott Publishing Co.

Copyright© 2008
TYPOGRAPHY
(Letterpress, Surface Printing, Flexography, Dry
Offset, High Etch)
Although the word “Typography” is obsolete as a term describing a printing method,
it was the accepted term throughout the first century of postage stamps. Therefore,
appropriate Scott listings in this catalogue refer to typographed stamps. The current
term for this form of printing, however, is “letterpress.”

As it relates to the production of postage stamps, letterpress printing is the reverse of

engraving. Rather than having recessed areas trap the ink and deposit it on paper, only
the raised areas of the design are inked. This is comparable to the type of printing
seen by inking and using an ordinary rubber stamp. Letterpress includes all printing
where the design is above the surface area, whether it is wood, metal or, in some
instances, hardened rubber or polymer plastic.

For most letterpress-printed stamps, the engraved master is made in much the same
manner as for engraved stamps. In this instance, however, an additional step is
needed. The design is transferred to another surface before being transferred to the
transfer roll. In this way, the transfer roll has a recessed stamp design, rather than one
done in relief. This makes the printing areas on the final plate raised, or relief areas.

For less-detailed stamps of the 19th century, the area on the die not used as a printing
surface was cut away, leaving the surface area raised. The original die was then
reproduced by stereotyping or electrotyping. The resulting electrotypes were
assembled in the required number and format of the desired sheet of stamps. The plate
used in printing the stamps was an electroplate of these assembled electrotypes.

Once the final letterpress plates are created, ink is applied to the raised surface and the
pressure of the press transfers the ink impression to the paper. In contrast to
engraving, the fine lines of letterpress are impressed on the surface of the stamp,
leaving a debossed surface. When viewed from the back (as on a typewritten page),
the corresponding line work on the stamp will be raised slightly (embossed) above the
surface.

PHOTOGRAVURE
(Gravure, Rotogravure, Heliogravure)
In this process, the basic principles of photography are applied to a chemically
sensitized metal plate, rather than photographic paper. The design is transferred
photographically to the plate through a halftone, or dot-matrix screen, breaking the
reproduction into tiny dots. The plate is treated chemically and the dots form
depressions, called cells, of varying depths and diameters, depending on the degrees
of shade in the design. Then, like engraving, ink is applied to the plate and the surface
is wiped clean. This leaves ink in the tiny cells that is lifted out and deposited on the
paper when it is pressed against the plate.
Gravure is most often used for multicolored stamps, generally using the three primary
colors (red, yellow and blue) and black. By varying the dot matrix pattern and density
of these colors, virtually any color can be reproduced. A typical full-color gravure
stamp will be created from four printing cylinders (one for each color). The original
multicolored image will have been photographically separated into its component
colors.

Modern gravure printing may use computer-generated dot-matrix screens, and modern
plates may be of various types including metal-coated plastic. The catalogue
designation of Photogravure (or “Photo”) covers any of these older and more modern
gravure methods of printing.

For examples of the first photogravure stamps printed (1914), see Bavaria Scott 94-
114.

LITHOGRAPHY
(Offset Lithography, Stone Lithography, Dilitho,
Planography, Collotype)
The principle that oil and water do not mix is the basis for lithography. The stamp
design is drawn by hand or transferred from engraving to the surface of a lithographic
stone or metal plate in a greasy (oily) substance. This oily substance holds the ink,
which will later be transferred to the paper. The stone (or plate) is wet with an acid
fluid, causing it to repel the printing ink in all areas not covered by the greasy
substance.

Transfer paper is used to transfer the design from the original stone or plate. A series
of duplicate transfers are grouped and, in turn, transferred to the final printing plate.

Photolithography
The application of photographic processes to lithography. This process allows greater
flexibility of design, related to use of halftone screens combined with line work.
Unlike photogravure or engraving, this process can allow large, solid areas to be
printed.

So,
PHOTOGRAVURE (Gravure, Rotogravure, Heliogravure) is the only one with the
dots not TYPOGRAPHY.

So now my original question that was "What is the easiest way to tell the difference
between a lithograph and a typo-graph?"

is still unanswered
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by Chris55 » 17 Oct 2014 00:27

Hi tomd,
if you can read german this pdf explains the different printing processes used for
stamps:

http://www.phila-kompass.de/fileadmin/PDF_Dateien/druck.pdf

Basically Lithography produces:

• eher unscharfe Bilder, bei denen die Linienführung sogar unterbrochen sein kann
fuzzy/blurry images, with lines that might be broken

• infolge dünnen Farbauftrags matte, weiche Farben

Because of the thin ink layer, the colour tends to be matt and weak

There are Bavarian stamps that were printed using lithography and typography. With
a copy of each one can see the difference. I can look this evening to see if I have these
stamps and will post them here.

Cheers,
Chris
"Consider the postage stamp, son. It secures success through its ability to stick to one thing till it gets
there." Josh Billings [Henry Wheeler Shaw (April 21, 1818 – October 14, 1885)]
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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 17 Oct 2014 00:56

No I can not read German.

But the two post would, I hope clear this up for me.
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by europhil » 17 Oct 2014 04:55

Typography

As mentioned above, typography leaves indentations on in the paper.

On mint stamps, these can best be seen on the gum side as raised
areas. Unfortunately, when used stamps are soaked, these indentations
tend to disappear.

One other feature of typography is the "ink squeeze" effect resulting

from the pressure applied by the printing press. If you magnify a
typographed stamp and focus on a line (or the edge of a solid area),
you can usually see evidence that the ink has been forced to the
outside edges of the line, sometimes leaving gaps in the middle.
But this is entirely dependent on the pressure used in printing. On
some overprints done on small hand presses, this effect will not be
readily apparent.

Lithography

Perfectly flat front and back. Even colors with no ink squeeze.

If you are dealing with used stamps, you will need strong magnification
to show the difference (10-20x). For scans, 600-1200dpi.

I tried to blow up your scans, but even though they are 600 dpi they
started to pixelate. But I think that both stamps are typographed.
It's possible that the second is lithographed.

I believe our member rein is very knowledgeable in this issue. I

would trust his judgment.
Jay Carrigan
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DonSellos
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by DonSellos » 18 Oct 2014 00:24

I have the same problem. Argentina definitives are really difficult because of the
printing varieties, and differing watermarks as well. Somewhere on this forum is a
long thread about collecting Argentina stamps. If you can find it, it may help.

Don
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by Chris55 » 18 Oct 2014 01:12

Hi tomd,
unfortunately I only have the typo printed stamp that I was thinking of.
As Jay pointed out it is quite easy to spot (without scanning) with a mint stamp
because of the indentations:
Here is a cancelled litho printed stamp (image from the internet I'm afraid):
and here are typo and litho side by side (also internet):
The problem is that used typo printed stamps can look like the litho type and now I
am not at all sure that this will help you with your Argentine stamps

Cheers,
Chris
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there." Josh Billings [Henry Wheeler Shaw (April 21, 1818 – October 14, 1885)]
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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 18 Oct 2014 11:30

The only thing that I could see is that when they are side by side one is sharper where
the other is, well for lack of better words at the moment sloppier and not sharp.

I could be way off the mark with this statement though.

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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by Chris55 » 18 Oct 2014 18:18

The only thing that I could see is that when they are side by side one is sharper where
the other is, well for lack of better words at the moment sloppier and not sharp.
Yes that's more or less how I see it.

Here are 2 high resolution images and enlargements of that I got from a stamp forum
here:
When one sees these the difference seems so obvious but in "real life" things are not
always so clear

Cheers,
Chris
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there." Josh Billings [Henry Wheeler Shaw (April 21, 1818 – October 14, 1885)]
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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 19 Oct 2014 02:18

Chris,
So the clearer one is the Typo-graph then.
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by Chris55 » 19 Oct 2014 02:36

tomd wrote:Chris,
So the clearer one is the Typo-graph then.
Correct
"Consider the postage stamp, son. It secures success through its ability to stick to one thing till it gets
there." Josh Billings [Henry Wheeler Shaw (April 21, 1818 – October 14, 1885)]
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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 19 Oct 2014 02:42

Thank you so much

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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by Chris55 » 19 Oct 2014 02:44

You're welcome.

Sorry I couldn't help you specifically with the Argentine stamps

Cheers,
Chris
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there." Josh Billings [Henry Wheeler Shaw (April 21, 1818 – October 14, 1885)]
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tomd
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Re: What is the difference between Typograph and Lithograph?

Post by tomd » 19 Oct 2014 06:33

So Chris back to the original scan I had, both are typo graph's just that one is darker
and the other is not as dark.

Again Thank you all for your help.

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