1

4 SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE

5 JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL,

6 U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

7 WASHINGTON, D.C.

10

11 INTERVIEW OF: ROBERT SCHORNACK

12

13

14

15 Tuesday, February 1, 2022

16

17 Washington, D.C.

18

19

20 The interview in the above matter was held via Webex, commencing at 4:03 p.m.
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2 Appearances:

5 For the SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE

6 THE JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL:

8 ADMIN ASSISTANT AND SCHEDULER

9 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

10 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

11 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

12 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

13

14

15 For MR. SCHORNACK:

16

17 EUGENE OHM
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2 Good afternoon. This is a transcribed interview of Mr. Robert

3 Schornak conducted by the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack

4 on the United States Capitol pursuant to House Resolution 503.

5 At this time, I'd ask the witness to please state your full name and spell your last

6 name for the record.

7 Mr. Schornak. Robert Schornak, S-c-h-o-r-n-a-k.

8 Thank you. This will be a staff-led deposition, and members, of

9 course, may choose to also ask questions if they attend. In the room today, we have

10 investigative counsel. We have investigative counsel;

11 investigative counsel; and investigative counsel. No

12 members are present.

13 Mr. Schornak, you are voluntarily here for this transcribed interview. At this

14 time, could counsel for Mr. Schornak please state their name for the record.

15 Mr. Ohm. Hi. This is Eugene Ohm. O-h-m, is the spelling of my last name.

16 Thank you, Mr. Ohm.

17 There is an official reporter transcribing the record of this interview. Please wait,

18 Mr. Schornak, until each question is completed before you begin your response and we

19 will try to wait until your response is complete before we ask our next question.

20 The stenographer cannot record nonverbal responses, such as shaking your head.

21 So it's important that you answer each question with an audible, verbal response. And if

22 I see you shaking your head, don't worry about it too much, I'll make sure that I clarify it

23 for the record if you forget.

24 Mr. Schornak. Okay.

25 Thank you. We ask that you provide complete answers based

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1 on your best recollection. If the question is not clear, just ask me or whoever's asking

2 the question for clarification. If you do not know the answer, please simply say so.

3 As we went over last time with you and like we went over with Mr. Ohm, the

4 select committee is a separate and independent investigation from the Department of

5 Justice. We have no involvement with the prosecutions and the Department of Justice

6 is not a partner with the select committee in its investigation.

7 The select committee is also not a party to your criminal case, and is not agreeing

8 to submit anything on your behalf to the judge, nor can we make any representations

9 whether if you tell the judge you met with us that the judge will be more favorably to you

10 during sentencing.

11 We have agreed with your attorney not to share the substance of what you share

12 with us to the DOJ prior to sentencing, but there are two possible exceptions to this that I

13 went over with you last time.

14 If you told us about evidence of a crime that we thought law enforcement was

15 unaware of, or we had reason to believe you lied during this interview, then we'd be

16 obligated to tell the DOJ or another appropriate law enforcement agency. And if you

17 tell the judge about what you said and whether it's consistent with your prior statements

18 in acceptance of responsibility -- I'm sorry.

19 And if you tell the judge that you met with us, please understand that that may

20 prompt questions from the judge about what you said and whether it's consistent with

21 your prior statements of acceptance of responsibility. If the judge starts asking you

22 questions, we may get asked to respond and divulge what you said. So I want to make

23 you aware of that as well.

24 I also want to remind you that it's unlawful to deliberately provide false

25 information to Congress. So for this interview, providing false information could result
 5

1 in criminal penalties for false statements.

2 Do you understand that, Mr. Schornak?

3 Mr. Schornak. I understand.

4 Logistically speaking, just like last time, if you need breaks, just let

5 us know. We'll take a break. We'll go off camera, go on mute so you can talk to Mr.

6 Ohm or take a comfort break. There may be several people asking you questions.

7 Again, so if you don't understand it, please just ask one of us to repeat it.

8 And before we get started with the actual question, do you remember meeting

9 with us on January 7th, Mr. Schornak, virtually for an interview?

10 Mr. Schornak. Yes.

11 So thank you for meeting with us then. Thank you, again, for

12 meeting with us today. We plan to go --

13 Mr. Schornak. 1wish we would've just recorded that one and we'd be good to

14 go.

15 Understood, Mr. Schornak. And we thank you, again, for coming

16 back and talking to us again. We plan to go through the same topics that we discussed

17 with you then and maybe even keep it more focused this time.

18 EXAMINATION.

19 BY
20 Q So I'll start off with just some background.

21 How old are you?

22 A 39.

23 Q And where are you from, Mr. Schornak?

24 A Fraser, Michigan.

25 Q Where do you currently live?

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1 A In Roseville, Michigan.

2 Q And how long have you lived there?

3 A Over 10 years.

4 Q Can you please tell us a little bit about your educational background?

5 What's the highest level of education that you've completed?

6 A Well, I graduated from Fraser High School, and then I went to Macomb

7 Community College. And then I graduated from Wayne State University with a

8 bachelor's in psychology.

9 Q What do you currently do for a living?

10 A I'm a business develop manager with England Logistics.

11 Q And have you had any other careers?

12 A I mean, careers? I've been in sales, you know, sales and account

13 management, customer service.

14 Q Thank you. Are you a military veteran?

15 A No, I'm not.

16 Q And are you prior law enforcement?

17 A No, I'm not.

18 Q So now we want to shift over to the general election, and the time frame

19 heading into January 6th. And we'll start with just understanding better your mind set

20 as we headed into January 6th.

21 So, in general, how would you have described your political engagement

22 throughout former President Trump's term?

23 A Well, I would say that I was very involved politically. I mean, not as far as,

24 like, I was running for office or anything like that, but I just followed it very closely, you

25 know. I did not originally support Trump when he started running, but, you know, as
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1 time went on and I saw what, you know, I thought he was about, I supported him a lot.

2 I went to numerous rallies to support him, you know, when he was first elected

3 and, again, you know, when he was going for re-election. So, I mean, I would say I was

4 very involved.

5 Q Just -- you said you didn't support him at first, what made you change -- I

6 guess, just give us a few examples of what made you want to support him after you

7 initially didn't support him?

8 A Well, I guess, you know, I just didn't really like him personally, and I thought,

9 you know, he was really just doing it for him, but when I started hearing about the

10 policies that he was claiming he was going to support, you know, those were in line with

11 my conservative background.

12 So, you know, I figured we would give him a chance. And he didn't, you know,

13 back down from the media, which, you know, I could appreciate because it seemed like

14 most people were scared of them.

15 And then when he got into office, I liked all the things that he was doing, you

16 know, that he was trying to do, and felt like he was trying to get our country, you know,

17 back on track, and thought he did, you know, really good job at that, the first 3 years.

18 You know, after COVID, everything kind of fell apart, but, you know, I didn't really blame

19 that on him.

20 Q Thank you. Did you follow the news pretty closely during his entire term or

21 just around the election time?

22 A I mean, I would say, like, when I was still on Facebook, I followed the news

23 pretty closely, but it wasn't like I was following, you know, news per se like watching the

24 news on TV. I would generally get news stories from Facebook and just, you know, kind

25 of read what interested me, but, you know, I would read stuff probably every day.
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1 Q You mentioned Facebook. What sources of information, if any, did you

2 read to stay informed in addition to Facebook?

3 A Well, most of the time, like I said, I would get stories, you know, from

4 Facebook, and basically click on those wherever they may be from. You know, I think a

5 lot of people do that on Face book now. If they see a title that interests them, they read

6 about that and, you know, that's what I would do.

7 Those sources were, you know, too numerous, really, to remember, but as far as

8 news sources go, I would say most likely conservative news places, Fox News, you know.

9 I can't really remember, like, all of the websites, the different websites that claimed to be

10 news sources anyways, but, you know, generally conservative ones is what I would follow

11 and read on.

12 Q So when you -- it sounds like you watched news or at least from television

13 sources as well, was it mostly through Facebook that you would click on the news like, I

14 guess, the television news to watch the video clips?

15 A Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I haven't had cable for years. So like watching

16 the nightly news wasn't something that we did. I mean, I would occasionally go on to

17 Fox News to try and get a story or a full story, because a lot of times with, you know,

18 Facebook posts you wouldn't really get everything.

19 There'd be clips, you know, 30-second clips, or couple minute clips, but couldn't

20 always get the full story that way. So then, I would try to search and see if I could find

21 the rest of it.

22 Q So I guess as you were clicking on news stories, did you read print

23 publications as well, such as, like, The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times?

24 A If they had a story that interested me, I would, you know, I would click on it.

25 I couldn't tell you how many different sources of news I took in because it was basically
 9

1 whatever interest me. I think we discussed this last time. You know, it's kind of -- I

2 forget the exact term, but basically like confirmation bias. You know, if I would see a

3 story that kind of promoted the way I was thinking about something, then, you know, I

4 was more likely to click on that story and read it than something that would contradict,

5 you know, what I was believing or feeling, you know, was going on.

6 Q So most of the stories you would click on were, in general, whether it was

7 print or television or even social media was from conservative outlets?

8 A Yeah. Or, you know, the way I thought at the time was sometimes I would

9 click on the news just to see what they were lying about, you know, and see kind of what

10 their perspective on something was, but generally, just had a distrust for the mainstream

11 media.

12 Q So I'm going to go through -- like we did last time -- a list of social media

13 applications and I just want you to confirm with us whether you used it for looking at

14 news during President Trump's term or even after the election.

15 Does that make sense?

16 A Yeah.

17 Q Okay. Facebook you've already mentioned that, but I just want to confirm

18 you looked at Facebook to browse for news?

19 A Yes.

20 Q What about Parler?

21 A I think I opened a Parler account, but I don't think I ever used it.

22 Q Reddit?

23 A I'm sure I went on Reddit a few times, but I wouldn't regularly go to Reddit

24 and read things.

25 Q Snapchat?
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1 A Yeah. I mean, I -- I wasn't really into Snapchat, you know, until after

2 Facebook, but I wouldn't say I went there for news. It was more just to look at funny

3 videos of my friends and family.

4 Q What about Telegram?

5 A Don't know what Telegram is.

6 Q Twitter?

7 A I had a Twitter, but I never really went on there. I mean, if there was

8 something from Twitter on Facebook, then I would, you know, click on it and read about

9 it, but I very rarely ever went on Twitter.

10 Q Gettr?

11 A Don't know what that is.

12 Q VouTube?

13 A VouTube, yeah. I mean, but again, VouTube was usually -- if there was a

14 VouTube video on Facebook, then I would, you know, click on it. There were times that I

15 would go on VouTube to look up videos because I have it -- I have the VouTube app on my

16 Roku at home. So if there was really a video I'd want to see, then, you know, I'd put it

17 on there from time to time.

18 Q What about Discord?

19 A I don't know what that is either.

20 Q The Donald-Dot-Win?

21 A Is that new? I'm surprised I don't know about that one, but I don't recall.

22 I don't think so.

23 Q Okay. Gab, G-a-b?

24 A No.

25 Q Wimkin, W-i-m-k-i-n?
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1 A Don't know what that is.

2 Q And then there's another two I didn't ask last time, but just want to make

3 sure we're being complete. 4chan?

4 A 4chan sounds familiar, but if I did, I probably didn't realize it.

5 Q And then 8Kun, 8-K-u-n?

6 A Doesn't ring a bell.

7 Q Okay. And just to kind of round out this section, if you had to pick one of

8 these sources which you relied upon the most, was it fair to say it was Facebook?

9 A Yeah, for sure.

10 Okay. Do any of my colleagues have any follow-up questions to

11 that, to those questions?

12 -
13 -Thanks, And thank you for speaking with us today,

14 Mr. Schornak.

16 Q I just had a couple of follow-up questions about what you were saying at the

17 beginning regarding your support for President Trump, and you mentioned that you

18 ended up supporting the President because his policies aligned with some of your

19 conservative values.

20 I was wondering if you could expand a little bit to explain what particularly made

21 you proud of President Trump while he was in office and what you thought his

22 accomplishments were?

23 A Well, you know, the America First Agenda in general, you know, sounds

24 good. Hey, put Americans first. Why that would be a question to anyone is, you know,

25 confusing to me. Why wouldn't you put your country first? I consider myself a very
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1 patriotic person. I've always loved my country and felt lucky to live here. I have not

2 always agreed with my government, which was, you know, kind of nice to hear from him

3 when he was coming in that, you know, he wasn't part of the government, and that he

4 was going to, you know, change things in Washington, D.C., make them more -- run more

5 like a business, you know, when he was talking about, you know, fixing the trade deficit,

6 you know, making other countries pay for our help, you know, with controlling

7 immigration, you know, building the wall. I think it's just part of that, but I didn't really

8 care too much about that, but just controlling immigration, in general.

9 You know, I'm, actually, married to an immigrant, so, even though I've had news

10 stories about me being anti-immigrant, that's -- that's inaccurate. I just -- I was for legal

11 immigration. You know, some other things that I thought Trump supported was, you

12 know, getting the government out of our lives and just having it run more efficiently.

13 I don't know that all those things happened, but, you know, that's kind of a

14 general overview.

15 Q That's really helpful thank you. One more follow up and I'll hand it back to

16 What do you think some of President Trump's biggest challenges were

17 while he was in office?

18 A Well, I think, you know, he had -- which was funny because, you know, the

19 media kind of built Trump, but then it seemed like, you know, as soon as he was running

20 for office, then the media was completely against him. So I think the media was

21 definitely a challenge for him. Also, dealing with all of the political stuff in Washington,

22 D.C., he was obviously inexperienced with that and I think he struggled, you know, in that

23 aspect as well.

24 - Great. Thank you. That was really helpful. Hand it back to you,

25
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1 Thank you.

2 BY
3 Q And also just to round that out and make sure we didn't miss anything, did

4 you follow former President Trump on social media?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Okay. And do you recall what websites you followed him on, specifically?

7 A I mean, as far as I know, it was just a Face book page for Donald Trump.

8 You know, there's probably more than one, but I think he had, like, an official Facebook

9 page, and then there were other pages like, you know, Patriots for Trump or, you know,

10 Moms for Trump. There was, you know, a lot of them.

11 Q Okay. Thank you. There's a bunch -- not a bunch, but there's a few

12 groups we wanted to talk to you about. We mentioned to you last time, these groups,

13 but we wanted to just give us a summary and what's your understanding if you're aware

14 of these groups.

15 The first one is the Oath Keepers. Were you aware of who they were around the

16 election time or during President Trump's presidency?

17 A Well, I mean, I've been aware of the Oath Keepers for a long time.

18 couldn't tell you exactly how long it was. I'm sure Facebook knows, but, you know, I

19 followed one of their pages. You know, I read stories about what they were about, you

20 know, as far as just upholding their oath to protect and defend the Constitution. You

21 know, I'm a big supporter of the Constitution. So I agreed, you know, with their mission

22 statement, I guess you could say.

23 Q And so, I guess, if you could just summarize, at a high level, your overall

24 views of the Oath Keepers at this time, how would you summarize that?

25 A Well, I haven't, you know, really followed anything more about them, you
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1 know --

2 Q Sorry, before January 6th.

3 A Oh. I mean, before January 6th, I wasn't following them, you know, any

4 more than I was previously, just really reading stuff from their website page or their

5 Facebook page. I didn't hear of anything from them, like, leading up to January 6th.

6 Q I guess -- I guess did you view them favorably or unfavorably, do you recall?

7 A Oh, favorably, yeah. I thought they had, you know, similar conservative

8 mind set.

9 Q Thank you. What about the Proud Boys?

10 A I didn't follow them. I read stories about them. You know, they were

11 kind of all over the news when all that rioting was going on, and they -- I mean, really it

12 seems like they just kind of went to fight them, but they were claiming that they were

13 there to defend them, you know.

14 So I -- I read stories about them. I watched videos about them, but I was never

15 affiliated with them or anything like that.

16 Q Okay. What about the Three Percenters?

17 A The Three Percenters, as far as I viewed them, were pretty much the same

18 thing as the Oath Keepers. What I know about the Three Percenters was that their

19 mantra was basically that 3 percent of the American population fought the British to win

20 the American Revolution. So as basically, like, 3 percent against tyranny, more or less.

21 Q Got it. Turning Point USA?

22 A Yeah. I'm definitely familiar with Turning Point USA. Charlie Kirk goes

23 around to college campuses where, from what I know, they start their own chapters of

24 Turning Point USA, and the point, as far as I know of the organization, is to spread

25 conservative viewpoints on college campuses, which seemed to be overwhelmingly

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1 liberal.

2 Q Okay. And QAnon?

3 A QAnon. Oh, gees. Yeah, I read some stuff from QAnon. I didn't really

4 follow them all that much, but it was impossible not to see their stuff on Facebook with

5 the pages that I was associated with. QAnon said a lot of stuff that I believe

6 conservative people wanted to believe. You know, half of it was true, half of it was BS,

7 but it was mixed together. So it turned out to be BS. You know, I know a lot of people

8 that did follow it and did believe it wholeheartedly, and I was -- I was always a bit

9 apprehensive about it because, you know, seemed a little far-fetched.

10 Q Okay. Following the 2020 election, did you believe that the election had

11 been stolen from former President Trump?

12 A I did.

13 Q What made you believe that the election had been stolen?

14 A Well, that's a long conversation, but I'll try and keep it short. You know, a

15 lot of it had to do with what we were being, you know, fed. We knew that there were a

16 lot of irregularities with the election. Because of COVID, all the mail-in voting, all the,

17 you know, drop boxes, all the laws, essentially, that were bent, you know, in order to

18 accommodate for COVID just made things seem really sketchy.

19 In addition to that, the night of the election, it seemed like Trump had won and

20 that, you know, that was it. And then we wake up in the morning to find out that

21 they're still counting, you know, all these ballots and all these ballots are still coming in,

22 and that is not how elections normally go.

23 So it was -- it wasn't that hard to believe that the election was stolen because of

24 all these different individual instances where people could point to and say, Well, look at

25 this and look at that, you know. Maybe -- maybe Trump's right. And then with all the
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1 things that they kept saying were going to be exposed and were going to come out in

2 court and elsewhere, you know, and we wanted to believe it. So --

3 Q So did you start to believe the election was stolen pretty immediately like

4 that night and the morning after?

5 A Well, yeah. I mean, especially once they declared Biden the winner, you

6 know, we -- we thought that was impossible, but, you know, the fact -- it wasn't just those

7 things as well. It was also statistical anomalies -- you know what I'm trying to say.

8 Q I got it.

9 A Yeah. Yeah. You know, things that had never happened before that did

10 not seem possible, you know, or at least probable. And those things were, you know,

11 constantly being shot at us as evidence. And, you know, we wanted to believe it.

12 Q So talking about the evidence that was being shot at you, was this evidence

13 coming from former President Trump himself, that he was saying?

14 A Well, he was definitely saying a lot, but he had more people saying stuff for

15 him, I think, than he was actually out there saying. You know, his lawyers, different

16 people on the news, talk radio, and then, of course, you know, the websites that were

17 just putting information out left and right. Yeah, I mean -- we did believe it, obviously.

18 Q Were there any specific people, or groups of people, that were more

19 influential for you during this time as far as believing the election had been stolen?

20 A Well, yeah. I mean, more influential? It was kind of just a combination,

21 but, you know, I remember when Trump's lawyers were coming out and they were, you

22 know, suing everybody, you know, we thought that, hey, that stuff' s going to work.

23 I don't know that any of it did. Obviously, it didn't, but, you know, it's just -- it

24 kept coming, you know. One thing after another, it seemed like, you know, was coming

25 out or being discussed. So it really wasn't that hard for us to believe it.
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1 Q Following the election during this period when the rhetoric about the

2 election being stolen was being pushed out, did you attend any rallies immediately after

3 the election in Michigan or elsewhere?

4 A Yeah. Yeah. I attended one in Detroit. I attended one in Lansing.

5 mean, it might have even been more than one in Lansing, but I know at least one in each

6 of those places, you know, neither of which were really that big. I mean, I don't

7 remember, you know, too much happening there besides what normally happens.

8 Q Were these Stop the Steal rallies?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Okay. And what, I guess --

11 A Well, I mean, I don't know if they were called that, so I don't want -- I don't

12 want to, you know, say the wrong word there, but that's what they were about was the

13 election and how we thought that they were being stolen. So I don't know that they

14 were called Stop the Steal rallies, but that's what they were about.

15 Q And what drew you to these rallies in Detroit and in Lansing?

16 A Well, just the fact that I had believed, you know, that the election was being

17 stolen and that, you know, we needed to protest against it. I definitely believed it, so it

18 wasn't -- it wasn't that hard for me to go to Detroit and Lansing, but neither were really

19 that long either.

20 Q Right. Before I open it up for any of my colleagues to ask questions, you

21 didn't go to the November 14th rally in Washington, D.C., correct?

22 A No, I did not.

23 Q And you didn't attend the December 12th rally in Washington, D.C. either?

24 A No.

25 Q Were you aware of violence occurring at one of the rallies in D.C. at this
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1 time? Were you tracking that?

2 A I don't recall that.

3 Okay. Does any other staff members have any follow-up

4 questions for Mr. Schornak?

5 -
6 BY

7 Q Thanks, yeah. If it's all right, I'd like to follow up with a couple of questions

8 about your beliefs that the election had been stolen for our background and context.

9 So you mentioned that you went to an event in Detroit. Could you speak

10 specifically about why you chose to go to an event in Detroit and in Lansing?

11 A Well, yeah. We had believed that the Detroit election had fraud in it. My

12 brother was actually one of the people that was counting votes there that day. I went

13 down there that day as well, and, you know, what we had been hearing was that people

14 were not being allowed to do their job in trying to count the votes.

15 People had said that they were bringing in additional votes and they were all for

16 Biden. You know, I read that and heard that. So, you know, we thought that Detroit

17 was, you know, one of the places that was most highly involved in the fraud that we

18 believed was going on. You know, that's why I went down to Detroit.

19 As far as Lansing goes, I think that was just, you know, another rally. You know,

20 someone invited me, or let me know about it, or I read about it, and Lansing's only like an

21 hour from my house, so it's not that far for me to go to.

22 Q And just to clarify, you may have already said this, so apologies. When was

23 the event in Detroit that you went to?

24 A The event that I went to in Detroit was right after. If it wasn't the next day,

25 it was the day after.

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1 Q Okay.

2 A I mean, not the next day after the election, but it was really close to after the

3 election ended. You know, probably when they were finalizing the vote total, I would

4 guess, but I don't remember exactly which day.

5 Q Would you remember if it was at a vote counting center or was it

6 somewhere else?

7 A Yeah. It was right outside.

8 Q The TCF Center?

9 A Yep.

10 Q And can you tell us a little bit more about what people were saying, the

11 speakers you saw there?

12 A Well, I wasn't really paying attention to them. To be honest, I was talking

13 with other people, but, you know, they were saying things like, you know, they're stealing

14 the election. You know, fraud was committed right here in this building. We have

15 witnesses to the fraud, you know, and they had people there, you know, that were talking

16 about what they saw inside, how they were being treated inside, you know.

17 Q Is it people who were trying to be poll observers?

18 A Yeah.

19 Q Observing the election count? Got it. So who do you think was

20 responsible for the coordinating the fraud in Michigan, in Detroit, specifically?

21 A Well, I mean, as far as I know, there wasn't any. It was just perception.

22 Q Uh-huh.

23 A You know, we don't -- don't have any real proof of it, you know.

24 They -- there was --

25 Q I should clarify, at the time, what did you think?

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1 A Well, at the time, we believed that people were bringing in votes and that

2 they weren't being verified because the poll watchers were not allowed to look at them.

3 And when they insisted on seeing them, they were basically bullied and, you know, some

4 were even kicked out.

5 Q Just a couple more questions on this. Thank you for your explanation. It's

6 really helpful for us.

7 My next question is, why did you think that Detroit and Lansing were particularly

8 susceptible to this kind of fraud?

9 A Well, I don't know anything about Lansing, in particular. It's just the

10 capital, so that's where they had the rally.

11 Q Okay. So Detroit then. Why did you think Detroit was the center of this

12 fraudulent activity?

13 A Well, I mean, I don't know why it was, but it just seemed like that's where it

14 was happening. I know that other voting centers throughout Michigan didn't have the

15 same problems where poll watchers weren't allowed to actually watch it, you know.

16 And the things that I heard were just, you know, what we were hearing, you know.

17 I didn't have any proof of it, but, you know, when you're hearing those things and people

18 are out there saying them and they were there, you know, you tend to believe them.

19 Q And would you say that President Trump's tweets about the results were

20 influencing your views on what was going on in Detroit?

21 A Well, I don't recall particularly what he was tweeting, again, because I'm not

22 really on Twitter, but, you know, I was reading things that he was saying, or that people

23 were printing, you know, that I was reading on Facebook.

24 Q And were you aware of claims of fraud similarly in other parts of the

25 country? And if so, what other parts of the country?

 21

1 A Yep. Yeah. There was a lot of them, you know, particularly in Georgia.

2 know Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. Those seemed to be the really, you know, big

3 States that were being talked about consistently and, you know, each of them seemed to

4 have a different thing that was going on there. I know in Pennsylvania, they were

5 talking about trucks bringing over ballots from New York. In Georgia, I think it was just

6 like -- and this is just what I recall, so --

7 Q Yeah, of course.

8 A But in Georgia, I believe, they stopped verifying signatures. And Wisconsin,

9 I know that they -- they had claimed that -- they basically got rid of the rule that you

10 couldn't fill out an application for someone, and they were talking about, you know, just

11 more votes than have ever, you know, been seen.

12 Arizona, there was a lot of talk about fraudulent mail-in ballots that they received.

13 You know, people were on TV talking about how they apparently voted in Arizona, but

14 they live in Georgia or some other State. You know, I know in Detroit and it wasn't very

15 hard to believe this, because I got ballots for people that haven't lived here in 15 years.

16 Everybody was getting -- I think it was applications for ballots, not actual ballots,

17 but they were just sending out applications for mail-in ballots to everyone. So people

18 were getting ballots for people who were dead, for people who haven't lived here in

19 forever. They were going to houses that don't even exist, you know. So it seemed,

20 basically, ripe for fraud because all those things were going on.

21 Q My last question on this before we go back to would just be,

22 what did you think was the common thread between all those various incidents across

23 the country, if there is one?

24 A Mail-in ballots.

25 Q Okay.
 22

1 - Thank you. That's helpful context. That's all for now.

2 Mr. Schornak. Okay.

3 BY
4 Q So after the election, can you tell us what factors, if any, influenced your

5 decision to travel to Washington, D.C. for the rally on January 6th? Like, what made you

6 want to come?

7 A Well, you know, what really made me want to come was the fact that, you

8 know, I had supported Trump all that time. I did believe, you know, that the election

9 was being stolen, and Trump asked us to come, you know. I'd never been to a rally

10 before where Trump actually asked us to come.

11 One of my buddies, or family friend, he, you know -- he said something I'll never

12 forget. He said, you know, Trump has only asked me for two things: He asked me for

13 my vote and he asked me to come on January 6th, you know, so I wanted to be there to

14 support him, you know, as well as defend other people because we had heard that, you

15 know, antifa or other counter protesters were going to be there to try and attack Trump

16 supporters.

17 You know, I consider myself a pretty able-bodied person. So, you know, we

18 figured if nothing else, you know, we can help defend some people, but the main reason

19 was just to support Trump and go to the rally. I wasn't even aware of going to the

20 Capitol until I was at the rally that day, going down to the Capitol.

21 So that definitely was not a part in what I was thinking at all.

22 Q Do you recall -- you said that the President had asked folks to come to the

23 January 6th rally. Do you remember what message that was from the President where

24 he asked, the one that stands out in your mind, if any?

25 A I can't think of one, in particular. You know, I know I saw a news clip of him
 23

1 saying, you know, we want you to be there January 6th. You know, come down or come

2 out, you know, on January 6th. You know, we -- we believed, you know, like something

3 great was, you know, going to be revealed or happen that day, you know. We knew that

4 they were counting the elector votes that day, you know, and we were really hoping that

5 something miraculous was going to happen and, you know, I wanted to be there for that.

6 Q And if you can just elaborate just a little more on that, what did you think

7 might be revealed? You're alluding to it a little bit, but possibly that Vice President

8 Pence might do something on January 6th; is that what you're alluding to?

9 A Well, I was definitely aware of the fact that Congress could challenge the

10 election results in some way, but I think more than anything it was just, like, we were

11 hoping that, because everything else that they had been saying up to that point had not

12 happened. You know, so when they said, you know, we need you there, you know, we

13 need your support, you know, we thought, Hey, then, something's finally going to happen

14 here.

15 You know, there was Congress people talking about revealing information. You

16 know, obviously, Trump and his team was discussing revealing, you know, additional

17 information, you know, that we thought was going to mean something, do something,

18 but that never happened.

19 Q You mentioned Congressmen, so that just makes me curious. Were there

20 any elected officials other than President Trump that might have, you know, impacted or

21 made you want to come to January 6th even more?

22 A Not that I can recall, you know. I mean, there were obviously some, you

23 know, hardened Trump supporters. There were definitely some people in Congress who

24 thought there was something to the election fraud. I can't recall, you know, specifically

25 who might've said what, but I know that there were people planning on making
 24

1 presentations that day to Congress.

2 I think Matt Gaetz was one, but that's just one I recall off the top of my head.

3 But, again, there wasn't really any specific things that they were saying, just that, you

4 know, things were going to be revealed, you know, kind of the mystery. Oh, well, we're

5 going to find out that day and, yeah, that didn't happen.

6 Q Thank you.

7 - do you have any follow-up after that?

8 - Not really, no. I would only ask when you were talking about things

9 being revealed on that day, did you have any sense that this was something that you

10 would -- that would require more action from you, or was the purpose to be at the rally

11 to hear the revelation?

12 Mr. Schornak. Just to be at the rally and hear it and be part of it, you know.

13 We thought -- like I said, we thought something great was going to happen and we

14 wanted to be there for it. You know, the mood of the day, most of the time we were

15 there, you know, was kind of a celebratory thing, you know, because, again, we were

16 expecting something great to happen so we were all excited about it, you know, and no, I

17 did not expect any additional action from me.

18 - Thank you. That's all from me for now.

19 BY

20 Q Mr. Schornak, when did you leave for D.C. for the rally on January 6th?

21 A We left the night before, just after work, drove there. We stayed in a

22 hotel. I wasn't driving, so I don't remember exactly where it was, but it was like right

23 outside of D.C.

24 Q Are you aware -- just to be clear, you left on January 5th, right, the day

25 before?
 25

1 A Yes.

2 Q And approximately when did you get into the D.C. area that evening?

3 A Yeah. I mean, we probably left a little early because we got there at like

4 11:30, around that time.

5 Q And it was you and one other friend. Is that correct?

6 A Yeah. It was me and Daniel Herendeen.

7 Q And along the same lines, did anyone provide any financial assistance for you

8 to come to the rally?

9 A No.

10 Q Are you aware of anyone, like, your friend or any other folks that you saw in

11 D.C. that received financial assistance from the rally?

12 A No.

13 Q Did anyone assist you with your travel plans, like, booking hotels or places to

14 stay or anything like that?

15 A Well, no. Dan was nice and he paid for the rental car. And then when we

16 got there, we were going to stay with my buddy Cliff in his hotel room, but they had an

17 extra hotel room, so we got one and we just stayed in our own room.

18 Q And you said you're not sure -- so did stay in Virginia or D.C., or do you

19 remember what part of that region you stayed in?

20 A I just remember we went under D.C. to go to the hotel because, like I said,

21 we were going to stay with our buddy, but, you know, we were going to sleep on the

22 couch on the floor. So when we got there, they had one room left, but I don't

23 remember if it was in Virginia or D.C. I mean, it could have been either/or.

24 Q And did you -- you and your friend, did you all meet with anyone once you

25 arrived or did you just end up staying with you and your friend?
 26

1 A What was the question?

2 Q Did you and your friend meet with anyone once you all arrived?

3 A Just our friend.

4 Q Okay.

5 A Yeah.

6 Q I guess when you arrived, I just want to understand your mind set of what

7 you were expecting once you arrived at the rallies? Did you expect there to be any

8 violence or anything on January 6th possibly?

9 A Well, like I said, we were told that people were going to be coming there to

10 attack us.

11 Q Right.

12 A So, you know, I was definitely not hoping for any violence, but I was

13 prepared to defend myself if I needed to. After the summer we had -- my wife was very

14 nervous about me going because, obviously, she didn't want me to get attacked. You

15 know, and that is why I got the -- it's not bullet proof, but whatever, the flak jacket and

16 the helmet from my cousin because I knew he had it, and I thought that would make her

17 feel a little more comfortable. So we got -- well, I got that, you know, a few days before

18 we went.

19 Q When you said after the summer, were you referring to the post-George

20 Floyd or Brianna Taylor protests? Is that the summer you're referring to?

21 A Well, yeah. I mean, I don't think we ever had a summer with so many

22 protests and riots and, you know, towns getting burned, you know, people getting hurt,

23 police getting hurt. You know, and then there was counter protesters to those

24 protesters and then they'd fight.

25 So, yeah, it wasn't out of the question to believe that there might be some of that
 27

1 at this one, but I definitely was not hoping for it. I mean --

2 Q Right. And when you said we were told that, you know, counter protesters

3 might come on January 6th, who was telling you this, if you recall? Do you remember

4 specific sources that were telling you this?

5 A I can't remember specific sources that I can note. A lot of it was more just

6 people talking about it, saying that they had read it on sites, you know, for antifa, you

7 know, whoever. But it was more kind of just rumors than anything. I don't remember

8 reading anything like on an official website or, you know, news source, but I'm sure I read

9 it.

10 Q And you mentioned that you brought, I believe you said, the flak jacket,

11 right, the vest and the helmet. Did you bring anything else?

12 A Yeah. Yeah. I brought my -- my hat, flags, the microphone.

13 Q Did your friend -- I think it was your friend that brought like the antifa spray

14 and tinted goggles and stuff. Is that correct?

15 A Yeah. I don't remember all that he brought, but I definitely remember the

16 antifa spray, you know, which was never used, by the way. But, you know, he had a flak

17 jacket too. I didn't even see the glasses, really, but I think he did have some. I think

18 they were just like ski goggles, but I think that was it.

19 Q And the American flag you referenced, that was an American flag face

20 covering, right?

21 A Well, no. I had an American flag and a Trump flag. You know, he had an

22 American flag face covering, I had a Trump one.

23 Q Okay. All right.

24 Do any of my colleagues have any follow-ups from that?

25
-
 28

1 BY-

2 Q Thanks, Yeah, I had a couple of follow-up questions on that,

3 if you don't mind, Mr. Schornak.

4 You mentioned that you were worried about potentially threats on January 6th

5 and so I'm wondering at the time what did you see as the biggest threats to your personal

6 security, threats to our country?

7 A Well, I think those are, you know, two different questions. You know, as

8 far as threats to my personal security, I really didn't see any when I was there. It was

9 just the anticipation of running in to it that I wanted to be prepared for.

10 As far as, you know, our country goes, I didn't really think there was going to be a

11 threat to our country there that day.

12 Q Yes. Sorry. I should rephrase. What kind of threats did you anticipate

13 being faced with that day? You mentioned antifa. Was that who you were worried

14 about?

15 A Well, like I said, from watching all the stuff online, you know, where groups

16 of people had, you know, clashed in the streets, you know, we had seen videos of antifa

17 running up on and attacking people, you know, many of which were defenseless Trump

18 supporters who were getting pummeled and, you know, we --1 didn't want to have to

19 witness that. But also, I knew that if such things were to happen, I would at least be

20 able to defend myself and others, you know, to make sure that it wasn't as bad.

21 Q That makes sense. That makes sense.

22 And, again, this is all really helpful for us to paint a clear, full picture of what

23 happened that day and how we can make sure it doesn't happen again. So on that note,

24 what did you think at the time antifa was all about? You mentioned video of them

25 assaulting Trump supporters. Was that from over the summer? What did you think
 29

1 they were doing over the summer? What did you think they were kind of generally

2 doing?

3 A Yeah. Well, it seemed, you know, ironic to me that antifa claimed to be

4 antifascist, but then they had and they were using fascist tactics trying to shut down free

5 speech, attacking those who, you know, didn't agree with them or who they didn't agree

6 with. You know, they have, you know, more of an antigovernment, anti- -- even though

7 they supported -- I don't really understand antifa, you know, to be honest because they

8 don't make sense to me.

9 But, you know, I know that they hated Trump and they hated Trump supporters,

10 you know, and that they were getting violent often, not only fighting police, but also

11 fighting others, you know, that they didn't agree with, and they seemed to have almost

12 guerilla-like tactics of attacking people and the police officers, you know, and just didn't

13 agree.

14 Q Where would you say you were learning most of your information about

15 antifa?

16 A Oh, it was definitely just stuff on line, but also stuff that they would post or at

17 least people claiming to be antifa, you know, which normally they would try to, you know,

18 hide their identities, you know. We would read stuff from groups of antifa and about

19 how they were training, you know, to wreak havoc, basically. You know, they were

20 training to fight and they were training with weapons, you know, not necessarily guns,

21 but other things that they could use as weapons, you know.

22 It was pretty infuriating to watch, you know. Americans getting attacked by

23 other Americans regularly. So, yeah, I had a definite animosity towards antifa.

24 Q That makes sense. So you mentioned the summer and your wife being

25 concerned about what was going on over the summer in terms of January 6th. So how
 30

1 did you view antifa in relationship to the Black Lives Matter rallies we saw over the

2 summer?

3 A Well, you know, the Black Lives Matter rallies, they definitely got violent,

4 too, but, you know, Black Lives Matter is a whole different thing. You know, I'm not

5 saying that I supported them or didn't support them, because to me, it just seems kind of

6 silly. Of course, Black lives matter, yeah. I agree with that, but, you know, what they

7 were trying to do, you know, and what was happening at some of these protests that

8 turned into riots and turned into cities burning, obviously, I didn't agree with that either,

9 you know, but to me, you know, riots that just kind of, you know, get out of control,

10 obviously, are terrible. But, you know, when it came to Black Lives Matter, I just didn't

11 agree with their ideology, mainly their Marxist ideology, and making everything about

12 race.

13 Because, you know, my viewpoint on race was the same as Martin Luther King's,

14 you know, that we look forward to a day when race doesn't matter. You know, I was

15 brought up not to see race, and when all they're doing is focusing on race and critical race

16 theory and the other things like that, I think that's counterproductive, you know, to

17 making an equal, fair society. So I didn't agree with that.

18 Q Understood. So how did you view the relationship between antifa and

19 Black Lives Matter? Just trying to clear that up.

20 A Well, I mean, I wouldn't even say that I put them in the same boat, because I

21 don't think they were going for the same things. You know, obviously, there was a lot of

22 Black Lives Matter protests that got out of control and, you know, cities burned. But,

23 you know, I don't know that they were going out deliberately trying to attack other

24 people. You know, I didn't agree with either of their ideologies, but I didn't know

25 anything about, you know, Black Lives Matter coming to attack Trump supporters in D.C.
 31

1 Q That was my next question. So when you came to Washington, you were

2 more concerned about antifa than Black Lives Matter?

3 A Yeah.

4 - I think that's all I have right now, Thank you, Mr.

5 Schornak.

6 BY

7 Q Thank you. So let's move on to January 6th then. Did you attend the rally

8 at the Ellipse?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Can you just -- approximately, what time did you arrive at the rally and what

11 did you actually observe during the rally?

12 A Well, we got there what we thought was kind of early. It was definitely

13 early in the morning, I believe, around 8 or 9. You know, when we got there, the

14 bottom portion where Trump and everyone else was speaking, that was pretty much

15 already party full, but we kind of set up shop by one of the screens, you know, not too far

16 from -- there was like -- I don't know -- some trucks by the bathrooms. You can never

17 get into one of those.

18 Yeah. It was basically in the middle between where Trump was speaking and the

19 Washington Monument. You know, we stayed there pretty much all day.

20 Q What speakers or speaker were you the most excited to see at the rally as

21 you attended?

22 A Well, definitely the one we were most excited for was Trump himself, but,

23 you know, there was a lot of speakers there that day that I knew. Trump's kids, you

24 know, Rudy, Sidney Powell. There was a lot of speakers there that day. I'm pretty sure

25 there was probably a Congressman or two, but I can't recall. But, you know, it went for
 32

1 a very long time, especially just to be standing there.

2 Q Right. Do you recall during the speech former President Trump saying,

3 "And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore"?

4 Do you remember him saying that?

5 A Yes.

6 Q What did you take that statement to mean?

7 A Well, I mean, you know, when he said it, it's kind of -- kind of just seemed

8 like a normal thing. You know, yeah, you got to fight for your country. I mean,

9 everybody says that. You know, you gotta fight for your family, you gotta fight for your

10 beliefs, you gotta fight for your country. I didn't take anything else away from it.

11 Q When you were at the Ellipse that day, was it already your plan to go to the

12 Capitol afterwards?

13 A Well, I wasn't aware that we were going to the Capitol Building afterwards

14 until we were there. So I didn't have a plan to go there previously.

15 Q And how did you become aware that you were going to the Capitol

16 afterwards? When did you, I guess, first realize that might be part of the plan?

17 A Well, after we were there for a while, you know, obviously, we were talking

18 to a bunch of other people and some people had mentioned it, but, you know, we really

19 weren't sure, you know. And then as the day went on, you know, more and more

20 people were saying, Hey, are you going to go down to the Capitol Building after this?

21 You know, and then Trump asked us to go down there.

22 So at that point we were definitely going, you know, and I mean, as far as, like,

23 making the decision to go down to the Capitol, yeah, it was probably when Trump said,

24 Hey, you know, peacefully and patriotically go down and protest at the Capitol.

25 Q Approximately, when did you leave? Did you leave after President Trump's
 33

1 speech?

2 A Well, we started walking, like, kind of -- because we wanted to kind of get

3 through the crowd. I'd never been around that many people my whole life. But, yeah,

4 we wanted to kind of get over towards the area where we would be able to walk down.

5 So Trump was still speaking when we were kind of leaving our little area, but we waited

6 until after Trump was done speaking before we actually started walking down.

7 Q And as you were walking down to the Capitol, I guess, when did you become

8 aware that individuals might be trying to breach the grounds or breach the Capitol

9 Building itself?

10 A Well, I didn't -- I didn't really know anybody was going to be breaching the

11 grounds, you know, until I was there. But, you know, people were saying all kinds of

12 stupid stuff when we were walking down there. You know, I did hear people say Hang

13 Mike Pence. I wasn't going to get involved in that one. You know, they were saying

14 other stuff like Drag him out, and it was kind of humorous, to be honest, but, you know, it

15 was really just people chanting and saying different stuff, but no, didn't expect it to

16 happen.

17 Q So then as you then come up on the Capitol Building, tell us what you

18 observed, what you saw as you got there?

19 A Well, yeah. As we were walking up, you know, it was really just kind of a

20 sea of people, but we could also see, you know, that people were, basically, all the way

21 up to the building, you know, and we could see as we got closer and we were kind of

22 making our way through, you know, we could see that, you know, police and people were

23 getting rowdy.

24 And then, you know, police started throwing out tear gas, you know, grenades and

25 stuff, and it just kind of devolved into a chaos, really. You know, there was one point
 34

1 where there was a line of people walking in and there was a line of people walking out

2 that were all sick, basically, from, you know, the pepper spray and tear gas or whatever

3 else was going on.

4 I actually walked up to an area where it was just people standing in front of the

5 police and I walked, kind of made my way through to the front of that, you know, and was

6 trying to talk to the police about what was going on.

7 Q And what was the polices' response and just tell us the nature of those

8 conversations?

9 A Well, it wasn't -- it wasn't much of a conversation because the pressure

10 between me and the police officer was, you know, immense. I was just standing in front

11 of him with my hands in the air and asking him what they were doing, you know?

12 came there with -- well, not with, but my buddy who we met at the hotel, he's a sheriff

13 and his buddy that he came with, he's a police officer as well. So we were with police at

14 the rally all day. You know, so I was trying to figure out what was going on and what

15 they were doing, you know, and he just said he didn't know. He was scared.

16 You know, he thought they were going to get overrun. You know, I just said,

17 Hey, man, I'll pray for you. Good luck. And I had to get myself out because I couldn't

18 breathe anymore.

19 Q Okay. So approximately how long were you inside the Capitol?

20 A Well, it was pretty much directly after I got myself out of where I was talking

21 to the police officer, that people started just -- it looked like just a whole line of people

22 were just walking right in. So I went in there after I was in there at, like, directly when I

23 walked in there, I just sat down on the floor for a minute to catch my breath, then I got up

24 and I walked around. I was in there for -- I don't know -- I think they said like 10,

25 12 minutes, something like that.

 35

1 Q Got it. And you didn't have anybody like communicating with you in the

2 best way to enter the Capitol or anything like that, did you?

3 A No.

4 Q And were there folks that you remember that were explicitly like trying to

5 encourage you to go into the Capitol or was it just kind of your own thing at the time?

6 A Well, I mean, you know, people were saying all kinds of stuff. You know, a

7 lot of people were just screaming, but I don't remember like a specific person directing

8 me, like, Hey, here, go in the Capitol. Where I was standing at the time is just where

9 they started going in. And then somebody was, like, Hey, they're going in the Capitol,

10 and for some reason, I decided that was a good idea.

11 Q And I understand this can be sensitive and I know you've already entered

12 your guilty plea, so we're just trying to understand the day and those events, but you

13 weren't familiar with how to get around the Capitol, were you?

14 A No. That was the first time I was there. I mean, I'd been to Washington,

15 D.C. before, but I'd never been to the actual Capitol Building before.

16 Q And you said you were in the Capitol for about, what, 10 to 15 minutes

17 approximately. I understand it was just an approximate amount of time. Why did you

18 eventually end up leaving the Capitol Building?

19 A Well, I wasn't sure why I was going in in the first place, and then after being

20 inside, you know, I thought there was some reason for us to be in there, and no one knew

21 what was going on. So, I mean I was walking around talking to people. I think I tried to

22 talk to some police, and they were just basically ignoring me, and then I could kind of tell

23 that the police seemed to be kind of mounting up, so to say, which, you know, definitely,

24 even though I'm sure I already knew that I wasn't supposed to be in there at that point,

25 after nothing happening and the police seeming to be gathering for something, you know,
 36

1 I definitely knew and realized that, hey, I'm definitely not supposed to be in here, I gotta

2 go.

3 So as I was walking out, or walking towards where I had come in, the police had

4 the door shut and then that's when they were actually telling us to leave. That was the

5 first time an officer told me to leave was when I was leaving and he said go through the

6 window and I just said, yes, sir, and I left.

7 Q Later in that afternoon on January 6th, former President Trump posted a

8 video where he asked protesters at the Capitol to go home. Did you see that video?

9 A I did not, but, you know, after I left from inside the Capitol Building, my

10 phone was dead almost immediately after I walked out. Phones weren't working all

11 day. I mean, the only thing you could do is take videos, but after that, I just walked

12 around the building looking for my buddy and, you know, I couldn't find him.

13 My phone was dead, so I found a lady with a charger. She let me charge up my

14 phone a little bit. I called Dan. He had already left. He had already gotten the car

15 and he just told me where to meet him, so I was gone. You know, we didn't stick around

16 after that.

17 Q Yeah. After leaving, where did you go?

18 A We just went home.

19 Q Just went home. Back to the hotel?

20 A No. He went to the hotel to get the car, you know, basically when I was

21 walking around the entire Capitol Building looking for him, but, you know, we didn't stick

22 around. I didn't hear any, you know, message from Trump.

23 Q And I forgot to ask this: Did you think that President Trump was going to

24 come to the Capitol Building on January 6th?

25 A Yeah. Yeah. You know, he said he was going to come down there with
 37

1 us. I didn't see how that was possible, you know, because it was a million if not more.

2 Some people said there was a couple million people there, I don't know. But, yeah, I

3 didn't see any way that he could go down there and they could keep him safe.

4 So, you know, we thought he was going to come. In hindsight, might have been

5 nice if he did. You know, maybe he could've stopped it. I don't know, but, yeah, we

6 expected him to.

7 Q And I just want to hit this really quickly. As you were marching to the

8 Capitol, did you encounter any resistance from law enforcement?

9 A I didn't.

10 Q Okay. And once you arrived at the Capitol, you had, it sounds like, some

11 interactions with law enforcement, but no real resistance. Is that fair to say?

12 A Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't going to fight the cops. Like I said, I was

13 there with some of them. You know, I -- I didn't push, shove, hit, anything like that, you

14 know, with a police officer. When I did get to the front, you know, when I originally

15 walked like up the steps and whatnot, I was standing between the crowd and the police

16 officer, but, you know, I wasn't trying to push my way through or anything.

17 Q So when did you get back to Michigan, was it January 7th did you get back

18 then?

19 A We just drove straight back. So, I mean, it was probably early morning on

20 January 7th, but yeah. I mean, it's a 10-hour drive and we drove straight through. So

21 by the time we got back, I think, it was like 2 in the morning.

22 Q And why did you drive immediately back? Was it just because, you know,

23 the day's events had been so much that you decided to leave or was that always the

24 plan?

25 A Oh, no. That was always the plan. I got a baby at home. My wife didn't
 38

1 want me to go in the first place. So I was just trying to get home to her and him, and we

2 weren't planning on sticking around.

3 Q So we're a little more than a year out since January 6th. Do you still believe

4 the 2020 election was stolen looking back now?

5 A No.

6 Q Why and how have your views changed?

7 A Well, you know, it really just comes down to, you know, if you're going to say

8 something happened, then you got to be able to prove it, you know, and everything that

9 we were told hasn't been proven. Biden's President, you know, and everything that -- I

10 mean, I guess I can't say every single thing that we believed isn't true, but none of it

11 ended up getting proven.

12 And that, you know, we just have to move on and hopefully, you know, try and

13 make sure that some of the things that did happen in the election don't happen again.

14 Q And looking back, I mean, you said that, you know, President Trump had only

15 asked us to do two things: for our vote and come to D.C. Have your views towards

16 President Trump changed at all looking back, you know, 13 months out since January 6th?

17 A Well, I mean, you know, I guess I'm just kind of disappointed. You know, he

18 definitely let us down as far as saying that, you know, all these things were going to

19 happen and be proven and they didn't. So in that aspect, you know, that just kind of -- I

20 don't know if "hurts" the right word, but it was just disappointing, you know.

21 When you believe in someone and you believe what they're saying, and then it

22 doesn't come to fruition, you know, it kind of like, Hey, that's some BS, you know.

23 Q Do you feel like you were misled at all? Is that fair to say?

24 A Yeah.

25 Q What do you think could be done differently as a country -- and this is some
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1 of the things we always ask for recommendations to go back to the committee to prevent

2 a situation like January 6th from occurring again?

3 A Well, you know, I don't really know that there's anything that the

4 government can do per se. You know, as far as what we can do, you know, as people, it

5 would be nice if we could have civil conversations again and agree to disagree without

6 shutting other people out and down, and it would be nice if the media wasn't adding to

7 that divisiveness, you know, and it would be nice if politicians weren't either.

8 I know we can't agree on everything, but just, you know, being cordial to one

9 another has kind of deteriorated in this country. And I'm guilty of it, too. I mean, I said

10 a lot of stuff on Facebook that wasn't very nice, you know, and everyone kind of digs into

11 their own corner and, you know, just forgets, or, you know, I don't know -- it's almost like

12 a big psychosis, like, you are only going to believe what you believe, and everybody who

13 doesn't believe what you believe is somehow, you know, like, the enemy or something.

14 And it's a lot of people that, you know, have gotten sucked in on both sides. You

15 know, I think that if they would've had better security that day, that it's very unlikely that

16 would've happened either. You know, I know that's what the police thought when I was

17 talking to them, but, you know, what we did what we did, you know. That's on us.

18 So I don't want to blame it on anybody else. I decided to go in, and I could've

19 made a different decision, you know. So I wasn't the one busting down the doors, but

20 it's on me that I went in there. The thing is, is that had people not gone in, then all that

21 day would have been was a big protest. You know, so it's the actions of a few that really

22 determined the outcome of that whole thing.

23 So, you know, can you ever really prevent the actions of a few individuals,

24 especially in a crowd that large? I don't know that you can.

25 Q What, if any ways at all, do you think President Trump or any other leaders'
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1 rhetoric might have encouraged the events on January 6th at the Capitol?

2 A Well, again, I don't know that it was really what he said because, you know,

3 the last thing he said was -- well, one of the last things he said anyways was, you know, I

4 want you to peacefully and patriotically go down there and do this, but, you know, other

5 rhetoric that had built up to it in making us all believe, you know, that the election was

6 definitely being stolen and that, you know, our republic was going to be stolen because if

7 we don't have free and fair elections, then we don't have a republic. You know, there

8 was a lot of rhetoric like that that probably inspired some of the people who, you know,

9 broke in, but -- yeah.

10 I mean, again, I think you got to put it on the people that did it, not the people

11 who were talking about it, but that's just me.

12 Do any of the other staff members have any follow-up questions?

13 - Yeah, just a couple. Thank you so much for explaining all of that and

14 walking us through it. I guess I'm also curious about returning to some of what you said

15 earlier about the election and claims of fraud. You said you didn't think that those

16 claims have been proven, but you went through a large list of election changes around

17 COVID that you had flagged as potential -- potentially of concern.

18 So I guess my question is, what do you make of those fraud allegations now, and

19 what do you think about the state of our elections now?

20 Mr. Schornak. Well, I don't know that all of those things have been corrected.

21 I'm kind of just done with politics at this point, so I haven't, you know -- I'm just trying to

22 focus on my family and our future, you know, so I don't know if some of those things have

23 been corrected, but I don't think that they were permanent changes anyways; I think they

24 were just temporary measures for the election, you know.

25 So as far as, you know, fraud, fraud has to be proven and it wasn't. So, even
 41

1 though I believe some shady things happened, none of it was ever proven. And so, you

2 know, I hope that future elections are, you know, done better, more according to the

3 laws, you know, of their States, and that people can have faith in the election again.

4 You know, that seems pretty battered, but, you know, again, it's one side believes it was

5 the best election ever, and another side believes that, you know, it was the worst election

6 ever.

7 You know, I -- I did believe, you know, that it was stolen, but that's because I was

8 expecting to see, you know, the proof that it was. And, you know, it never came to

9 fruition. So we just got to move on and try and do better.

10 - Thank you. That's all I have.

11 And thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today.

12 And as we close, we covered a lot of topics this time and last time

13 we spoke with you. But is there anything that we missed that you think we should

14 know, Mr. Schornak?

15 Mr. Schornak. I don't know. That's a long -- a lot to talk about. You know, as

16 far as, you know, this goes, I don't have anything else, you know, that I can think of, but I

17 guess if you guys think of anything else, let me know.

18 Sounds good.

19 And thank you, again, and thank you for sitting with us for a second time.

20 Thank you, Mr. Ohm, for coordinating with us.

21 And we'll go off the record at 5:30 p.m. eastern time.

22 [Whereupon, at 5:30 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

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1 Certificate of Deponent/Interviewee

4 I have read the foregoing _ _ pages, which contain the correct transcript of the

5 answers made by me to the questions therein recorded.

10 Witness Name

11

12

13

14 Date

15