Interview: "The Word Is an Act of the Body"

Author(s): William O. Beeman, Tadashi Suzuki and Kosho Kadogami

Source: Performing Arts Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2 (1982), pp. 88-92
Published by: Performing Arts Journal, Inc
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 terview

111
tl ele

TADASHI SUZUKI

"The Word is an Act of the Body"

This interview took place on

October 15, 1981, and was
conducted by William O.
Beeman. Acknowledgement
is gratefully made to Mr. i
Kosho Kadogami for his
translation.

How did you come to your present adaptation of Asian theatrical modes for
the experimental stage?

When Iwas a student at Waseda University I organized a small performance

group performing realistic theatre based on the Stanislavski system, but us-
ing realistic styles of performance made it impossible to accommodate the
entire range of human experience. I could only show the surface. I eventual-
ly began producing plays by my friend, Minoru Betsuyaku. The first was

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called Zo (Elephant) and was inspired by Beckett and lonesco. Of course
this was also basically based on Western theatrical styles. After separating
from Betsuyaku, I began to realize that classical Japanese theatre offered
the greatest range of possibilities for expression.

Whatdo you consider the most central element in Japanese theatre for the
experimental stage?

The most important point is a sense of corpus-the relationship between

the word and the body. There is no kind of friction between the word and the
body, but as Merleau-Pontypointed out, the word is an act of the body. The
classical Japanese theatre shows us that the word is a kind of gesture, and
thus I have been working in this mode. Japanese words, all of them, involve
this sense of body-they are very physiological, very close to the Japanese
sense of corpus.

What about the relationship of director to the text. In the past you have
taken texts and altered them considerably to suit the performance.

If the performance contains the essence of the original text, this is valid
theatrical activity. In the rehearsal process the text, no matter what it is, is
always altered. This alteration of the text is a natural process. The text is
also changed by the actor's essence. If the actor changes, the text is also
altered. If we consider the Kabukitexts of Nanboku we worked with we see
that Nanboku wrote each text for a particular actor, thus each text is a kind
of documentation of the abilities of an individual. Naturally when someone
else plays this role, the text is altered.

In Japanese classic theatre there is a very special relationship between ac-

tor and director. Does this relationship carry over into your work in ex-
perimental theatre?

In Japan, in order for the actors to appear attractive on stage, directors and
writers must do their work. InJapan the director and the writer serve the ac-
tor. The director is also responsible for bringing out that latent power that
resides below the surface in an actor-something that the actor himself
may not even be aware of. In the Kabukiof Nanboku's time, the actors were
in a very real sense shamans. Their bodies were infused spiritually during
the acting process. Today's actors do not have the kind of ability which
allows them to become possessed during the acting process. In order to
restore this kind of mystical shamanistic sense to the acting process, I
have devised numerous physical exercises which help to restore magical
power to the actor. The "modern" theatre began to develop at the point
when the shamans began to give up their special powers. The further one
retreats from this, the more the original power of the theatre is lost.

Are their any directors abroad who seem to share some of your philosophy?

I have been called "The Japanese Grotowski" in Paris, but really, my work is

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 ONTHEDRAMATIC
PASSIONS

much different than his. Grotowski has abandoned the "word"to too great
an extent. I have been working within a Japanese frame to revitalize the
Japanese word and help actors to take the word into the body. Grotowski's
drive to encourage independence of the body without the word is far too
narrow in the end. I contain the word within the body. In this way there is a
correspondence between the two.

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Does this apply to Shuji Terayama's work as well?

Terayama's work is completely different. For one thing his actors speak a
kind of Japanese which is completely foreign to Japanese tradition. His ac-
tors speak in detached images in a way that seems more European than
Japanese. My work has aimed at opening up Japanese in its original rich,
classical sense, and it is this original language which contains the magical,
mystical power which lurks behind everday life.

If so much of the power of your work derives from the power of Japanese,
why turn to Greek drama for your work?

WOMEN
THETROJAN

In the European tradition Greek theatre alone seems to have retained its
magical shamanistic power. The Japanese translations of the Greek
tragedies retain this aspect of the work. There is in fact a great deal of
similarity between Greek classic theatre and Japanese Noh and Kabuki.All
of these forms seem to be aiming at consolation of the human soul.

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Richard Schechner has talked about the decline of experimental theatre in
the United States [see PAJ 14, 15, 16]. Whatseem to be the differences bet-
ween the United States and Japan, and what can Japan teach American ex-
perimental theatre at this point.

The American theatre community seems to consider language and the body
to be somehow in opposition. This is a crucial difference. Secondly,
however, in Japan the world of theatre is very clearly established into polar
structures. There is traditional Noh and Kabuki on the one hand and
shingeki (new theatre) on the other. Thus it is clear what one is working
against if one is working in experimental theatre in Japan. As a director I
can see clearly the deficiencies of each established theatrical dimension.
This gives me something to work against. But for American contemporary
theatre, I don't detect any sense of opposition, no metaphorical enemy to
work against. Moreover,the performance of "establishment" theatre is link-
ed to other political and cultural assumptions in society. In terms of
theatre, my work can be seen as a criticism of all dimensions of established
theatrical art. This gives it a social effect which extends beyond the theatre
itself, giving it an impact on other cultural areas.

What role do you see for your new theatre center at Togamura in affecting
the direction of experimental theatre in the future?

I want the Togamura complex to be a center for exchange among theatre

groups on a world-wide scale. We have built a dormitory that will accom-
modate about thirty persons, and we hope to bring many groups together
for varying periods. I am also considering forming a school with fifteen
American and fifteen Japanese students at a time. Many kinds of training
can be pursued in this kind of center-music, art, even anthropology. The
name will be the Japan PerformingArts Center. In 1982 we will also have an
international festival at the Center with the participation of a number of
groups from Japan and abroad.

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