Jennifer Larson.

m4a
Good afternoon. We are going on the record at 1:26 p.m. On January 15th, 2019.
Please note that the microphones are sensitive and may pick up Whispering private
conversations and cellular interference. Please turn off all cell phones or place them
away from the microphones as they can interfere with a deposition audio audio and
video recording will continue to take place in Los all parties are critical off the record.
This is Media unit.

But one of the video recorded deposition of Jennifer Larson taken by counsel for plaintiff
in the matter of Amanda Jane Byrne Quest versus Donald. Milazzo, Jennifer Larson
James barbero at all filed in the United States district court for the northern district of
Illinois during case number 18 CV 0 3 6 19 this deposition is being held at 10 to 20
South 76th Avenue, Bridgeview, Illinois, my name

Is Craig Senate from the from vertex? And I'm the videographer. The court reporter is
Suzanne Burke from the from a text. I'm not authorized to administer an oath. I am not
related to any party in the section normally financially interested in the outcome console
and all present in the room and everyone attending remotely will now State their
appearances and affiliations for the record Solomon Radner for the plaintiff Miss
Amanda berquist who was present and seated to my right. This is the state's attorney
Mike Gorman for the defendants.

Well the Cole Porter please swear in the witness.

Did you ask miles about how the deposition want? I didn't it didn't talk to him at all. I saw
him in the

As I was walking out of the office we walked out. He said I don't ask a lot of questions
and that was it. Okay. So what have you done to prepare for this deposition anything?
No, I spoke to State's attorney Mike Gorman yesterday briefly. We did a phone
conference. I don't hear about that. We were going did you review any documents or
any video footage I did not.

Okay, is it against the law to?

Take pictures of a courthouse from outside.

No, not that I know is it lawful to arrest somebody for taking pictures outside of the
courthouse of the courthouse? No, is there something so sorry. Are you familiar with
this case at all?

Which case the if that brings us here today that your death testifying in? Yes. Okay and
in a nutshell, what's the case about?

I would say.

That Amanda Bergquist is

I guess I called you to say that she was outside videoing when she shouldn't have been.

So she's saying we violated her Amendment rights. You're correct. When you say when
she shouldn't have been what does that mean? What's she doing? Something wrong?
Not just something unusual. What us as officers would consider unusual unusual?
Okay.

Depending on where you are in the country Mormons are unusual, right depending on
where you are might be unusual to see a Mormon do you get to detain Mormons in
those places? I don't know people detained Mormons. I don't know if they detain
Mormons. I would it be lawful.

Just because it's unusual. No, is there something unlawful about recording outside of
the building?

I'm sorry. What was the question? Let me ask you this was Miss Burke was doing
anything illegal when she was detained.

And I would say it was not illegal unusual. Okay, in order to detain somebody what do
you have to have legally? Do you know?
I do not know the law legally. Okay. Did you have any reasonable suspicion that she
was committing a crime? We had Reasonable Suspicion to

Ask her what she was doing and why she was doing it just to get who she was and why
you and I agree on that that you have the right to ask her. Whatever you wanted to ask
her. Did you have the right to put her in handcuffs?

For the security of the officers. Yes. Okay. What made her threat?

Curve refusing to give any information that was requested of her what she legally
obligated to give that information when an officer has asked her for security purposes to
give her identity up. Yes. We do have the right to ask for an identity of somebody for our
safety. Have you ever heard of something called the Terry search or a Terry Frisk I
have what is that?

I'm not going to say exactly I don't know the law. Okay. Well, let me just ask you this
police officers a lot to go over to anybody. They want demand to see ID and if they
refuse they get to arrest them. Is that your testimony or detain them?

You say that one more time. I'm sure police officer goes over to somebody on the street.
Let's call the person. Mr. Plaintiff Okay police officer goes to mr. Plaintiff and says, hey,
let me see your ID and mr. Plaintiff says no is the officer now a lot of put mr. Plaintiff
and handcuffs and detain him. Well jacked so hypothetical and calls for speculation.
Yeah, you can answer I do believe yes for officer safety. They do have the right to then
at least then do.

A pat-down of the person's outer garments for their safety doesn't there have to be
reasonable suspicion that the person committed a criminal offense or violated a law
because I'm going to I don't know the law exactly. You don't know when I officer is a lot
of detain somebody.

We can detain if there is unusual activity.

We told you to I'm sorry finish okay to gather information.

Weather information

Who decides what's unusual?

A reasonable person gotcha. What was Miss Burke was doing that was unusual?

Just video link

Once I came out there.

Will you put the haircut and everything, you know, were you there when she got
handcuffed a bus you'd helped put the handcuffs on her.

I did not necessarily help. I was there as the other officer. Did it. Did you touch Miss
Berkeley at all?

If I did I don't recall. Okay, was there any reasonable suspicion that she was committing
a crime? Yes or no?

We weren't sure what she was doing. Okay, so if you don't know what somebody's
doing, do you have reasonable suspicion that they're doing anything in particular?

No, but we have a reasonable response to ask what she was doing right agreed. You
could ask her what she's doing and when she refuses to answer are you now allowed to
detain her?

Yes, who told you this that you get to detain people who are videoing and refused to
identify themselves when asked

In this case. Are you asking me / are?

Which are you looking towards? Are you asking just for like myself or per the Sheriff's
Office? Well, in this case, I'm assuming that milazzo was calling the shots, right? I
Lieutenant was their first. Yes. Your lieutenants name is Lieutenant. Milazzo laws.
Okay. No, I'm talking about in general who told you that you get to detain people if
there's an unusual activity to gather information if they refuse to identify them. Yes in
general you're saying that in this case.

Was it a training was a I didn't usual case in our Courthouse. We are to stop and gather
information to make sure that the situation would be secure who told you that. Alright,
let's say

My department when did your department tell you this?

I cannot tell you exactly I don't know. What is it fair to say that this policy has been in
effect for at least 10 years.

Yes since 9/11 yes.

What's your rank Sergeant? How long have you been a sergeant?

I've been a sergeant 10 years. It will just be coming up until 19 and a half years. How
long have you been working for the Cook County Sheriff's Office as a law enforcement
officer of some sort in any capacity 19 years and 10 months. What are the Miranda
Rights?

Are Miranda rights? I don't have I would have to read them to you from pre-written.
Okay?

You at some point told Liz berquist at the counter in the sheriff's office that she had an
option to Simply show ID and then she'd be on her Merry way, right?

I'm not too sure exactly what my words were but I do remember speaking to her. Yes,
you conveyed that type of offer, right? Yes, and in fact

I believe is what you told her was that she's going to see the judge for recording at a
courthouse and she may or may not go home tonight. Remember saying that I do not is
that something you would say?

No, you wouldn't say something like that.

Because it's not true, right it may or may not be true. I don't make the rulings on what
the judge decides or what the judge does. I can't tell any body and not allowed to even
tell them that is what the judge decides and sentencings verdicts on anything that
happens. That's not my decision my but didn't you tell her that she may or may not go
home. Didn't you? Tell her that she may or may not go home?

Tonight do not remember that is that something that you would say? No, why wouldn't
you say something like that? Because as I said, it's not my decision on if she is or she if
she's not going home. It would be the judge's decision. If a judge decides to hold
somebody then they decide to hold somebody if they say that they're free to go. They're
free to go. They said Bond I do not also saying something like that to somebody you
may or may not go home tonight. It's a little bully

Ying isn't it? I'm not sure what do you think do you think that sounds a little bit like a
bullying tactic? I'm not sure if you don't do what I'm saying, you may or may not go
home tonight. I'm not sure you don't think that sounds like a bullying tactic.

It's been asked and answered.

You don't think that's a bullying tactic. This is bullying. Can you like give it's been an
absolutely and answered. I'm bullying her. You're asking the same question over and
over. It's been asked and answered a question. It's already been answered. What's your
answer just to work there for the record?

You don't think this is a bullying tactic don't swallow.

Your objection is noted tell what answer the question please you can still have some I'm
not sure.

But it's definitely something that you would not say right correct. In fact, you said to her
that they take it not so lightly it can either be an incident report or you can go to bond
court remember saying that no, you wouldn't say that either.
Right, correct at one point. I think you said to her. This is your last chance or you're
going to be arrested ever say that to her. No, were you were you standing by the
counter with her while I'm Eliza was in his office. I was standing in the office. Yes.

This is not marked as an exhibit. But the I believe there's a bait stamp here. That's so7

33 for dash suspicious circumstance. It's the 2018 328 Exxon body to camera footage
which was provided in Discovery. I'm going to play from the 215 mark.

Right

Take it downstairs will be arrested. We will finger aren't you and we will run you.

Take me.

Pausing it at 2:48. Did you hear a woman's voice? Just say you may or may not go
home tonight? Yes, who's who owns that voice? Do you know it was me so you would
say something like that. All right. Yes, I did. Yes.

Is there anything else that I'm going to have to show you video footage for in order to
get a truthful answer as I stated? I have not watched that video so I would not say that I
remember.

From something that happened almost a year ago did milazzo say to you something to
the effect of what the fuck is going on today? Every crazy loon in the building is coming.

Do not remember exactly that what it surprise you if you would say that or would you not
be so surprised that would surprise me for someone?

To say that but I do remember something being said the exact words. I do not
remember. Okay. What did you mean when you told Miss Burke was that you may or
may not go home tonight?

Based upon what happens in court a judge decides whether someone is set for Bond if
they post if they don't post if they're released if they're not released it is all based upon
what a judge does. So you're basically telling her give me your ID and identify yourself
or you're going to be in this limbo where you may not go home tonight, right?

I'm sorry. Can you say it again? You were basically telling this Bergquist give us your ID
and identify yourself or else you're going to go to the judge and you may or may not go
home tonight.

We were requesting for her to give us an ID. And if she wouldn't what would happen to
her that she would have to go to bond court. I think I said for then the judge to decide
what would happen and she may or may not go home tonight, right, correct. And you
felt the need to tell her that that that would happen if she didn't give you an ID, right?

Yes, I guess I said that and again the lawful basis to demand her ID was what?

So that we knew who she was.

Anybody want to know who they are you got to demand their ID and threatened to bring
them to bond court if they don't give it to you and handcuffs.

Is that the law?

She was outside.

Videoing which is something unusual, which is the reason why.

Supervisor was called to go outside to find out that that's the reason why did you hear
my question?

Yes, what was my question? Your question was? I can't give it to exactly I'm not I'll tell
you what the question was. Okay. I asked you if you get to detain anybody who refuses
to identify themselves to you and threatened them that you will bring them to bond court
in handcuffs if they don't identify themselves.

So the question is do you get to do that to anybody that you want as an officer of the
law?
Yes, I'm sorry. I'm not understanding the question. Are you asking if I can just stop
anybody that I want and a rest of them so that would be no are you a lot of stuff
anybody you want ask them for ID and if they refuse or to refuse to give it to you detain
them and bring them to a judge where they'll bond court and may or may not go home
tonight. Do you get to do that anybody and tell anybody that you want?

Who is acting unusual in suspicious? Let's start with the right. Let's start with my
question. Anybody do you get to do that to just anybody you want? Yes or no?

I don't know. Well, I mean the answer is obviously no right. I'm going to stick with I don't
know. Okay, you think that there's a possibility you get to just go over to anybody on the
street and demand ID and if they don't give it to you you can detain them. Not just
anybody know. Okay, thank you. So we're on the same page. Now. Somebody has to
do something to give you that right as an officer of the law, right? Correct. For example,
if somebody asked sex.

It's in a way acts like a CTS acts acts in a way. Okay, that establishes reasonable
suspicion that they're engaged in illegal activity you get to do a brief detainment, right
and if there's probable cause that they're involved in criminal activity, then you get to
arrest them. Right, correct? Okay. Was there any reasonable suspicion that Miss
Bergquist was engaged in any illegal activity?

She was engaging in suspicious activity. I didn't ask you about suspicious. Did I?

No, what did I ask you? If she was engaging in anything illegal. I asked you if there was
any reasonable suspicion about you.

I asked you if there was any reasonable suspicion that she was engaged in any illegal
activity.

By the time I got there, I'm not sure what she was doing. I'm asking you what your
knowledge is.
Based on what you know, based on what you saw based on what you observed. It can
rely know I was doing as I was directed by my lieutenant. I walked out there after the
fact so I'm what she was doing at the beginning. I am not aware of what she was doing
at the beginning. I want to make sure that when we get to trial your testimony is still
going to be you don't know anything. You were only doing what your Lieutenant told you
to do. Is that going to be your testimony.

I know that she was videotaping.

We are unaware of actually what she was videotaping outside of the building whether it
was outside or inside of the building. Did you ever touch her camera or as a d card? No,
not as far as I remember. Did you ever delete any footage from her camera? No.

Do you or did you have any reasonable suspicion that she was engaged in illegal
activity?

Not suspicious. I don't care about suspicious. Okay. I'm asking you about illegal activity
did you or do you have let me start the question over?

Was there ever any reasonable suspicion that she was engaged in illegal activity?

I would be unaware of any illegal activity yet. She was detained anyway, right correct.
Was she arrested she was now what's the difference between arrested and detained?
We were not we were just detaining her. I was detaining her until further information
was gathered. Did you hear my question? Yes, what was the difference? What's the
answer the difference?

Is we were detaining while we were gathering information and not arresting to place
new charges on her?

Did you understand the question I asked you right detain is to hold together information
and arrest is to place new charges upon somebody gotcha. So if unless you put
charges on somebody they're not arrested. We're not arresting her correction. So when
you hear cut somebody in a public place bring them into a sheriff's office, bring them in
front of a judge take their property.
And search through their purse in your opinion. That's a detainment. Not an arrest,
right? Okay, what would have had to have happened for it to be an arrest shooter has
been charged with a crime. All right. So if somebody would have issued her a ticket
after all of that it would have been an arrest or put new charges. Yes.

What do you think of the way milazzo acted that day?

And which regards how do you well, you heard that he I'm assuming you heard all this
you were there right next to his berquist while he was talking to her right inside. Okay,
and he said to her things like you're going to go to Cook County Jail for 90 days, right?
Do not remember everything that was said no. Okay, and I did not review any of the
video to do you remember him ever saying to her that you would go to jail for 90 days. I
do not.

All right.

video on this time. I'm playing at 1540.

15:32 rather

I realize you're going to have said.

You realize you're going to go to Cook County Jail for 90 days heard him say that we're
positive 1550 right now. Is that an appropriate thing for an officer of the law to say to
somebody in your opinion?

Don't have an opinion on that. I understand that I'm putting you in a very difficult position
right now because I've got you under oath and I'm asking you to testify about your
supervisor, correct? Okay, I'm doing it anyway, okay, what's your opinion about the way
you treat in this berquist when he said that is that appropriate or inappropriate conduct
for an officer of the law? I do not have

Opinion on it
Are you afraid that if you say that what he did was improper or inappropriate or
unprofessional that you might face some sort of lash back? No, then why is it that you're
afraid or don't want to tell me what your opinion is.

Because I don't have an opinion. I don't there doesn't it's here nor you have no opinion
about milazzo, 's statement to miss Burke was that you would go to jail for 90 days. It
didn't even remember him saying it until just 20 seconds ago, right? But now that you do
remember is that something you would say to somebody

Why not?

Because it's not my decision to sentence anybody it is up to the judge. Is it molasses

decision?

No, okay. So can you think of any reason explaining or justifying milazzo saying that to
miss Bergquist I cannot

You still don't have any opinions about whether that was an appropriate thing to say to
miss Bergquist. I don't if she would have shown idea what she had been released.

Or do you not know? I don't know if that would not have been my discretion. It was not
my call. Okay. The only thing that concerns me at this point is that I'm afraid when we
get to trial. Your testimony is going to change after you say you reviewed all the footage
and reviewed all the reports and talk to everybody. Do I need to be scared of that? No.

Nothing further.

Believe me what's since we've got so much time. Let's just do Barbaro since we're here.
Anyway, it won't be long I assure you. Thank you, sir.