CNC LATHE OPERATION

05/27/2007 3:09 AM

HI,CAN ANYONE OF YOU DUDES HELP ME WHERE TO FIND REFRENCES ABOUT GE FANUC
SERIES 21 T,IT IS USED IN BASIC CNC LATHE PROGRAMMING.IS THERE ANYTHING ON THE NET
WHERE I CAN PRACTICE PROGRAMMING & SIMULATION?

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garyceng #1

Associate Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION

05/28/2007 3:20 AM
Is this a school project? If it is you might be able to get a free seat of
demo software from Mastercam, Surfcam, or a variety of others
depending on where you are. Those software packages have verification
( simulation ) features. If you are in Europe Delcam is also one of the
best. Do you have a machine to work with? Are you at a company that
has a lathe with the GE FANUC control? If so they should have a manual.
The other question is: do you know how to run a manual lathe? If not,
you should learn this first before messing with a CNC. You can do a lot of
expensive damage very quickly if you crash that machine not to mention
the danger. Learning to program is actually the easy part. It is learning
Join Date: Apr to be a machinist that takes time. Any FANUC control whatever the
2007 number uses basic G-code programming. There are loads of websites
with this info. The differences from one machine to the other are learned
Location: North at the machine and you should have someone who knows the machine
East Pennsylvania to train you.

Posts: 43 __________________
Men are like steel, if they lose their temper they are worthless.

CNCdoc #2

Associate Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION

05/28/2007 10:18 AM
As the above poster mentioned, Fanuc 21 series controls uses G-Code
Join Date: Apr programming. Once you have mastered G-code you can enter it line by
2006 line and process the part you desire. On a simple 2 axis lathe, it may be
possible to learn from experience in a shop in a couple of years.
However, with advent of better and better CAD/CAM programs, even
Posts: 32
skilled programmers are becoming obsolete. My opinion is to learn
CAD/CAM programming and basic machining (2 axis lathes are much
simpler than mills) which will include G-code programming.
 Fanuc utilizes some standard M codes which will have to be entered to
make your program work, even with a simulator or CAM. You can enter
these in most CAM programs for such things as door open/close turret
movement, coolant off/on bar feeders and other things that are machine
specific. These will be found in the Manufacturer's Owners' Manual
or Operation Manual. Fanuc controls are a "one size fits all" control.
The manufacturer takes separate outputs from the Fanuc I/O when the
"M" code is processed and causes peripheral devices to actuate or
operate or change state. Most of these are standard in the machine
industry (ie: "M8" coolant on) but others are different. The Fanuc Manual
will not tell you what your machine M codes are. The operation manual
will give (rather difficult to follow)intruction on G-Code which will not be
of much value without practice time on the machine and as the poster
above alluded to; Someone to teach the basics (tool selection, metal
identification, spindle speeds and feed speeds, Engish and Metric
precision measurement and application along with advanced math skills,
tool path or sequencing in a lathe, chuck safety use and operation and
finally troubleshooting part process discrepancies, etc just to name a
few) and safety. An improperly run lathe can cause death, so it's
important to learn these things along with the programming.

Here is a link to a G-code simulation software site, which is what you

seemed to be asking about!

garyceng #3
In reply to #2
Associate
Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION
05/28/2007 11:46 AM
I will differ from you on only one point and that is the statement that
"even skilled programmers are becomming obsolete". The best software
in the world will not make you a machinist. If you don't know how to cut
metal, you have no business programming machine tools. I know of a
guy who had a reputation for pushing machines to the limit and then
backing off just a bit to run his jobs. He got a lathe tool holder in the face
and had to have his whole mouth and jaw reconstructed. In my
experience (mostly milling) people who start programming without first
having machining experience have a lot of crashes, break a lot of tools,
Join Date: Apr and send parts flying across the shop.
2007
We seem to be pretty much on the same page. I have to be careful or I
Location: North will get up on my soap box. I never cease to be shocked by the
East Pennsylvania ignorance that comes out of some schools. I have actually encountered
people who think you can just scan a drawing into a machine and it
Posts: 43 makes parts. I even saw job ad for a person who could "automaticaly"
turn drawings into g-code. I couldn't resist. I wrote and told them that
the technology did not exist to do that. That is why they were hireing a
programmer. I could go on and on and I bet you could also.

__________________
Men are like steel, if they lose their temper they are worthless.
Ing. Robert #5
In reply to #3
Forbus
Commentator Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION
05/28/2007 11:15 PM
Agreed 100%, Garyceng. The programmer must know the true
characteristics of the behaviour of materials while they are being carved
Join Date: Jul 2006 to shape, and have knowledge of workholding methods for odd-shaped
parts. Only through becoming an accomplished machinist or toolmaker
Posts: 64 can this knowledge be gained. Anyone who has a basic knowledge of
CAD or similar software can be easily and quickly trained to write CNC
programmes. Whether the programme as wrritten will be successful
without rework depends greatly on the knowledge of material, tool, and
machine selection and interaction.

Reminds me of many years ago when I learned and then taught CNC
programming at a technical school. My question to a student-"How do
you quickly find the feed override knob?" Answer-"It's the one with all
the paint worn from around it due to faulty programmes!"

Ing. Robert Forbus

CNCdoc #6
In reply to #3
Associate
Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION
05/29/2007 9:39 AM
Join Date: Apr We don't really differ, I just used a term that could be understood
2006 different ways: Obsolete.

Posts: 32 Many of the production shops that are not really fabrication or prototype
or one piece or part production shops are (and have been since the
advent of CAD/CAM) phasing out the real machinists, and especially
journeyman, who are paid top dollar. Instead, they keep one (or two in a
big shop) he becomes the shop foreman and he proves the programs
that he (or a CAD/CAM/Draftsman) sends to the machine once the
foreman sets the part vices or fixtures and they agree on tool path etc.
Then, they hire cheap help (button pushers, mostly high school grads) to
load parts into the machine, change tooling call the shop foreman when
the part doesn't work in the "go, no go" gauge. They don't want them to
learn anything because; first, they will want more pay because they can
do more with the machine, but they can also screw things up more (ie.
forgetting decimal in tool offset screen, changing .012 to 12 *Fanuc*
older controls causing a crash.) Second, they will be worth more to
another company who will pay more, and they will lose them and have
to hire someone to replace and retrain.

What happens to the journeyman machinists that were let go? The job
market in a given area where production shops are working, may
advertise for "experienced machinsists" and there will always be signs
and ads for such ones, but the pay and benefits are seldom
commensurate with their experience and usefulness. The prototype one-
off part shops are not hiring much in the slow economy and if they are
 hiring, the pay is seldom what it was before. Many of these guys open
their own shops and do overflow work for bigger shops, the government
(Navy, Air Force etc.) and the new high tech start-ups du jour. Or they
retire, or do something else, including going to school to learn CAD/CAM.

So no, they aren't obsolete but the schools and job shops aren't training
the number and quality of apprentice machinists as in the past. It seems
the "basics" are now encumbered with decisions that have to be made
as to whether it can be done faster and better on a CNC with CAD/CAM
instead of learning that there is more to a machinists job than making
chip$.

My opinion.

garyceng #8
In reply to #6
Associate
Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION
05/29/2007 10:43 AM
Yes, CNCdoc, It is very frustrating isn't it? Recently I was in the
unfortunate position of having to be an employee. I programmed for a
shop with 25 CNC mills. There were 2-3 setup guys and the rest were
button pushers, not because some of them were not capable but
because they were not allowed to learn. Years after I closed my shop in
California, I did some contract work for a former competitor. He said that
he would usually hire people who had previously worked for me because
he knew I had taught them something.

Join Date: Apr The sad thing now is that shops all want to hire experienced people but
2007 refuse to train the people they have. Then the big companies try to hire
engineers to do the job. The unfortunate engineer who gets the job finds
Location: North that he has to learn a whole new profession with no one to teach him. Of
East Pennsylvania course the guy who actually has the experience will never get
interviewed because he doesn't have a BSME.
Posts: 43
Ok, now I on a roll. I can't stop. Lets not forget the public school system
which looks down its collective nose at manufacturing and therefore
doesn't encourage kids toward the many great carreers they could have
while they phase out most industrial education programs. And the public
wonders why our manufacturing base is being shipped off to other
countries.

__________________
Men are like steel, if they lose their temper they are worthless.

CNCdoc #9
In reply to #8
Associate
Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION
05/29/2007 11:51 AM
Join Date: Apr I agree (warning possible thread hijack). It's one of the downsides of
2006 capitalism. The schools teach, the rock videos teach and the guy down
the street with the Hummer teach kids that there are those who can
Posts: 32 make more money than the the others by doing something or learning
something with the end goal of gathering money,and lots of it. Anything
less is unacceptable. (Who is working at McDonald's in Silicon Valley,
where it is impossible to make a living there doing so?) A short cut to
wealth is the more worn path now, and the machinist and his equipment
and know-how are fast becoming a "means" to an end, instead of a
career where one finds enjoyment in the work of his hands.

To add something relavent to the discussion: There are several online

auctions where older CNC equipment ends up going pretty cheap. If I
were wanting to learn G-code programming in a hands-on environment, I
would buy one of those for a few grand and hire a retired machinist to
tutor me a few days a week. If the manual actions performed by the
machine in manual mode are learned, it would be a simple transition
from that to the G-code programming that would be, in effect translating
the actions of a skilled machinist, instead of the logical numeric output
of an equation based on the fastest feeds, speeds and tool path of a
CAM program. Once CAD/CAM is learned, then you could be the judge of
whether the product measures up to what it should be as an extension
of the machinist's skill, instead of a crutch for the unskilled to use as a
way to bypass the actual skill needed in the process as the untested
engineer's calculations are stated in CAD, translated in CAM and then
produced on the CNC machine.

The problem with that is that the tool selection and speeds and feeds
are usually taken from the tooling brochure, where cut depth, speeds
and feeds are always optimistic and over stated as are the precision
operations and production capabilities of the machine manufacturer. As
a result, the under-educated CAD/CAM programmer, is often
disappointed in the outcome of his programming because he causes the
work to be under-bid and under-scheduled. Then, after the tooling
salesman and the machine manufacturer have been consulted and it's
discovered that the tooling guy blames the machine manufacturer for
not being able to fully use the tooling and the machine manufacturer
blames the tooling for not being "good enough" for the machine. As a
result, production has to be non-stop. Machine maintenance suffers and
tooling is stretched to it's limits to avoid higher costs. Eventually heends
up losing money. A good machinist would have easily been able to
render a more feasible production operation based on real life
experience.

Some things can only be done just so fast. These guys just can't get that
through their heads!

In my experience, G-code programming is the last thing you learn to be

able to use a CNC, unless the machine offers high-speed machining or
other multi-axis and tool-path short cuts or nesting procedure, which
usually comes along with the machine training if that is the one you are
learning on for the first time.

I used to work for a machine manufacturer (several) and I taught G-

code, re-engineered, worked in R&D, installed, retrofit and repaired CNC
machines of all kinds. There are now 3-D digitizers that input real-time
data with precision scaling into the better 3D CAD programs, which can
be output to several quite functional CAM programs. Not quite a picture,
 but pretty close. Still, guess who made the original?

The newer simulators are useful for finding programming errors and
learning G-code, but IMHO, learning it hands on is the best, easiest and
fastest way to learn G-code. Unfortunately, the thread starter didn't ask
about that.

Guest #4

Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION

05/28/2007 12:47 PM
hi, if you want an answer find, then can you ask to
[email protected]. he is a very "technical" man.

best regards.

Guest #7

Re: CNC LATHE OPERATION

05/29/2007 10:34 AM
hi,

let me share some of my exprience on cnc lathe .basically cnc works on

the principle that,it is controlled by numbers which include G-code M-
code and N-code. G-code are the preperatory code that guide the
machine for initial set-up and preperation before actual machinig then
followed by n-cone which actually guide the machine to perform the
machining and required tool path to be followed.then the M code for
closing the operation.You need to have the knowledge of all these code
to write a program.