2024_December_The_Saga
2024_December_The_Saga
Dane:
When we were in high school, we played some fairly vanilla D&D
games, and we were happy doing that. But something shifted when
Dark Sun came along. You seemed more immersed in world-
building than ever before. I think that period was the seed of what
eventually became Atheles and SagaBorn.
Would you say that’s a fair assessment, and if so, what was it about
Dark Sun that drew you in?
Mike:
To set the stage, its best to paint the picture of the time we found
Dark Sun. We had played the generic Middle Earth style fantasy
game for so long. We played in our own worlds, even if they
were heavily influenced by Tolkien, Midkemia, and Dragonlance.
Shifting through the shelves at Waldenbooks, I had found
Spelljammer. This was the first time we had entered into stranger
worlds in our shared gameplay. For all the cheese in Spelljammer,
I fell in love with it. It was also when I started stepping up my
worldbuilding, my art design, and my campaign development.
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The next thing that caught my attention in that little bookstore, was
Dark Sun. Or I should say the art of Brom on Dark Sun products.
That is why I bought the box set and adventure books. Once I
started exploring the world, I just fell in love with it. I ended up
crash-landing your Spelljammer crew onto Athas and turning a
group of pirates into a group of antiauthoritarian misfits in cool
leather armor with wrist razors.
Dane:
My memories are tinted. I never read the Dark Sun books. My
exposure was entirely through your campaign, which I think was
a heavily modified version of Dark Sun. What I remember is less
about the world itself and more about my experience of playing in
it.
And the character development wasn’t just me—for the first time,
we had an entire group coming up with fun characters, each with
their own interesting personalities.
And all that was because the world felt alive in a way none of us
had experienced.
But again, I don’t know how much of that came from Dark Sun
and how much came from your developments. I know you weren’t
just reading from Dark Sun modules—you only used these books
and worlds as a starting point before building them into your own
thing.
What percentage would you say was Dark Sun versus your
creation? Also, you mentioned the art—what was it about the art
that drew you in?
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Mike:
We got into Dark Sun at the perfect time. We were 16 or 17, and
we were starting to become aware of the world around us and
the problems it faced. The fairy tales of Middle Earth where the
King is Returned and he is totally cool and fair, and the bad guy
is always just bad, were no longer the stories I saw reflected in
the world. I know you never had that simple of a mindset, but
branching out from the standard
fantasy at our table just felt
right (though we never played
at a table right? So should we
say sofa top gaming?). We were
also into metal and experimental
music, and the aesthetic and feel
of Dark Sun fit with that.
the core setting, but I did only reveal the parts that were relevant
to how you all wanted to play. At that age, it was hard to wrangle
everyone into a room for a night of gaming when we could be at
the mall getting into trouble and meeting girls. So I think Dark Sun
also became much faster-paced and story-driven than earlier games
we played. I I remember correctly, we even stopped rolling dice
during this campaign. It’s great that Dark Sun is so much like Mad
Max because everyone wanted to play like they are on Fury Road.
Grab some wrist razors and go crazy!
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But seriously, so much of Dark Sun resonated with me, and I
happily admit to all the influences it has had on my fiction and
design work. Much of it comes out accidentally, but that is the
burden of art isn’t it? We are constantly influenced by the things
that shaped us.
What do you remember about the overall story of our Dark Sun
campaign?
Dane:
I don’t. Not in the kind of detail it would take to articulate it.
I remember our ship, and I remember landing on this world. I
remember having a caravan and eating honey globules from the
butts of giant ants. I remember a lot of fighting. I remember you
making a lot of art with our characters. I remember there being
some kind of lofty political goal of liberation or something along
those lines. But I don’t remember the specifics. Thirty years is a
long time for a guy with a terrible memory to begin with!
Mike:
Oh man, you just outed me. Yeah, I totally broke canon and rules
for our Dark Sun campaign. Dark Sun was a cut-off world, with
no gods, no Planescape, no Spelljammer. And I crash-landed
your Spelljammer ship on Athas to strand you guys there in a
completely different campaign. I believe I painted the picture of
the world well to you all, probably with the high hope that you
all would decide to pick up the revolutionary torch and start off
against the Sorcerer Kings!
That may be one of the main things people miss about the Dark
Sun campaign. Many people point fingers and call it problematic.
Kyle Brink, on his “OGL DnD Apology Tour™,” said Dark Sun
wouldn’t be coming back.
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have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to
be true to the source material and also meet our ethical
and inclusion standards. We know there’s love out there for
it and god we would love to make those people happy, and
also we gotta be responsible.“ - Kyle Brink
Let’s be honest. I believe Dark Sun could come back easily with
some small tweaks to the world. Our culture celebrates fiction
like Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon, which is filled
with very few good people, so we can have a game come out
that is gritty and dark. This is not to say that there are many
clumsy old ideas in Dark Sun. But there aren’t world-breaking.
They could be edited to be better. The weird “all halflings are
cannibals” could be easily made to not be a “whole culture does
this thing.” Or the painful elven mate-finding rituals? Just write
it off as in-world racist propaganda. The problem is, I don’t think
a corpo-run, shareholder focused company would want to bother
writing a setting where the big bad guys are the power and money
hungry kings who sit in their temples and prey on the people who
have less. Because they would be supporting a story that might
make people start to formulate how to take on their seemingly
monstrous, “too big to fail” organizations that thrive when we
don’t call them out. Not that I think WotC or HasBro is overly
successful, but the only reason they get away with all the horrible
stuff they do to employees, creators, and artists is because there are
50 years of nostalgia guarding them.
Ok, off my anti-corpo soapbox, but it does drive home the point.
Dark Sun was not a celebration of this power-hungry system.
It was not pro-slavery. It was not a power trip. It painted those
things as disgusting. And it presented a path for those who struggle
against it. To work for a better life even when it probably wasn’t
possible. The odds were stacked against anyone wanting to be a
hero in this world. But you grabbed your half-empty water skin,
put on your wrist razors, and you went at it like crazy. You tried to
tear down the power system.
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And the proof of this viewpoint? Read the novels. It was about
taking down a tyrant and forming a democracy. It wasn’t a desert-
themed Gone with the Wind. All the bad stuff was that, bad. And
characters were meant to fight for something better. Every day may
be a struggle, but still we push to make it better. And that is a great
lesson.
Anyway, this is a big theme I have pulled from Dark Sun into the
Dark Return and SagaBorn. There is no “Chosen One”. There is no
Not to ramble on too much in one reply, but I missed your question
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about the art. That is what initially pulled me in. The cover
painting on the box set by Brom stopped me in my tracks. Forever
in love with Lord of the Rings, this was something else. Something
weirder. What was this creature with two bone pickaxes? Not
a single standard trope (well maybe that weird lich guy on the
left) from your run-of-the-mill fantasy art. The color palette was
perfect. The city in the background? Immediately wanted to go
there. Even the logo was top-notch.
Inside, Brom continued to deliver. During that time I liked Baxa’s
work, but I didn’t give it as much credit as I should have. The
Brom art showed how I wanted my characters to look. Baxa’s art
showed how the world looked. The different cities and locales
illustrated by Baxa delivered as much to the setting as Brom’s
work. I also think having only two artists define the look of the
setting was a brilliant move. I wonder if they worked in the same
TSR studio together so they could work out ideas and style.
They built this world as much as Elmore and Parkinson built
Dragonlance.
Dane:
You mentioned pulling themes from Dark Sun into Dark Return
and SagaBorn, and I’ve noticed some other overlaps, like ravaging
magic. How much of SagaBorn is inspired by Dark Sun? What are
your thoughts on the comparisons?
Mike:
I think the only SagaBorn 1.5 Core Rulebook, M Bielaczyc
thing that inspired
me more than Dark
Sun was Lord of
the Rings. But the
themes I love are
all way more in line
with Dark Sun than
Lord of the Rings.
Unlike Tolkien’s
vision, I see no use
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in fantasizing about a perfect person who will return as king to
save us from ourselves. Though Tolkien’s love of the common man
rising up to fix the problems those in power created does resonate
with me. Brian Cooksey, who helped with SagaBorn 1st Edition,
once said he thought of the Dark Return as the prequel to Dark
Sun, and I really like that idea. Dark Sun is fun, but Athas is a dead
world. I like the idea of playing in a world that is teetering on the
edge. It doesn’t feel so depressing. There is still hope.
Other things are influenced by Dark Sun, though sometimes stuff
that seems like it is directly
inspired actually came about in
other ways. In the Dragonlance
novels, when Raistlin cast
spells, he grew tired the more
he cast. I related to that idea,
since it only seemed logical
that magical energy had to
come from somewhere. As I
developed the Dark Return
setting, we settled on that as
a law of magic, the magical
energy, or mana, came from
somewhere. The wizards of
Atheles believe that mana
mainly comes from the
Navirim, an alternate universe,
which is why that universe is
falling apart, as well as why
it seems to be colliding with Brom, TSR
the prime plane. It was only a
quick jump to ask if people would take energy from themselves or
the world around them, so we came up with Warding and Ravaging
- ways of taking mana from yourself or from the world around you.
I am 100% sure the seeds for that idea came from Dark Sun, but
it wasn’t a worldbuilding choice to directly lift the defiling from
Dark Sun.
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I do love the dynamic of Dark Sun with its ancient corrupt rulers,
which has definitely informed the political worldbuilding in
Dark Return. I do tend to make my rulers a little more human,
less completely evil and more driven by being broken people in
powerful places.
Another out of the fictional world influence was the way Dark Sun
books where presented. The original box set came with a book for
players called The Wanderer’s Journal. I apparently loved that so
much in my youth, that I tucked it away in the corner of my brain
and then named our company Lone Wanderer Productions. Then
our first big book was a recounting of the elves of Atheles through
the eyes of an unreliable narrator traveling the lands. When I
started looking through my old Dark Sun boxed set a few years
back, I realized how much of their design style I had lifted without
knowing it. Now I want to go full in, and put out a beautiful box
set like they did, though like TSR, it would probably end up
costing us more than it would make.
Dane:
Dark Sun feels so different from most other fantasy settings.
That and Spelljammer were my first exposures to fantasy gaming
outside of the traditional medieval European-style setting, and I
remember imagining all kinds of other possibilities, like my still-
unwritten fantasy set in a paleolithic era-style setting, with cave
people wielding primitive magic. Was that a similar experience for
you? Did it inspire you to explore outside the norms?
Mike:
For me it was natural to move outside of the normal fantasy.
Fantasy used to be a lot weirder, then D&D came along and
reinforced that euro-centric male dominated fantasy. I don’t think
I would have ever been happy staying within those boundaries.
Fantasy should be weird, and fun, and dangerous. Which describes
Dark Sun and Spelljammer!
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Dark Sun started development as a tie-in to a TSR war game, and
its name was going to be War World. The story I heard was the
developers saw a painting Brom had done as a personal project
hanging in his studio at TSR. They picked that as the starting point
for the new setting. So, the whole tone of Dark Sun came from
Brom’s very non-standard fantasy art. Where Spelljammer was
literally D&D in space, Dark Sun was something new.
The world needs more diverse and strange game settings, so you
should get that paleo game setting written up!
Dane:
Do you have any final thoughts?
Mike:
I love Dark Sun. I think it was a really great departure from the
normal sword and sorcery we had in 2E . You could totally make
it work today and players would have a blast playing in that world
with small tweaks. Or, jump into the Dark Return as a setting. A
more gothic version of a world being ravaged by magic, and it
already comes with a little more modern flavor.
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Adventure in a world where magic has reawakened
and demons lurk in every shadow. The Dark Return is
a retro style fantasy setting for the SagaBorn RPG
and all other TTRPGs.
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Passions are part of the Basic Roleplaying universal system, and
I have recently written them into the SagaBorn d100 system. This
doesn’t mean you can’t use them with SagaBorn d20 though!
Passions
A passion is a guiding belief or an intense emotion in a hero’s life.
Passions are intense and define how a hero may act in a situation.
These are distinct emotional connections to various entities,
groups, places, or even oneself. Love, Hate, Fear, Devotion, and
Loyalty are often placed in terrible conflict with one another, as
well as challenging personal codes of honor. You start with one
Passion. You may gain more Passions through your adventures or
by discussing it with your SG.
Basic Passions
The most common passions are described here, though this list is
not exhaustive. Like a skill specialty, a parenthesis after a passion
indicates that a suitable focus must be chosen.
Devotion (deity)
Devotion to a god or divine force represents a personal devotion
of one’s life to a deity or some divine force or entity. This indicates
a sincere emotional dedication and strong faith. When used for
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inspiration, that faith manifests within the character, imbuing them
with some small measure of courage.
Honor
Honor is a martial virtue, a personal code of dignity, integrity,
and pride. Personal honor is not a slippery issue, subject to
interpretation. The difference between honorable action and
dishonorable action is clear to everyone, no matter how they
behave.
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Examples of general dishonorable deeds:
Attacking an unarmed foe Plundering a holy place of your
religion
Cowardice Treason against your allies
Desertion from battle Breaking an oath
Refusing to offer mercy Killing family members
when it is deserved
Attacking or stealing from Killing someone weaker than
the weak oneself
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● Loyalty (individual) is the measure of a character’s bond to a
specific individual, such as a ruler, boss, or another patron. A
warrior owes personal loyalty to their leader; in return, the leader
rewards their followers with compensation, support, or other
privileges. Loyalty (individual) is also used to gain the personal
support of that individual.
Using Passions
Passions define a character’s life intentions and serve to inspire
them. There are a couple of ways to incorporate passions into
gameplay.
Table P1
Roll 1d10 Passions
1 Devotion (Diety). See Table R1
2-3 Fear (type or individual). Proceed to Table PF1
4-5 Hate (group or individual). Proceed to Table IG1
6 Honor
7-8 Love (group or individual). Proceed to Table IG1
9-10 Loyalty (group or place) Proceed to Table PL1
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Fears
Choose or let fate decide:
Table PF1
Roll 1d20 Fears
1 Darkness
2 Fire
3 Water (drowning, being on boats, rivers, etc)
4 Heights
5 Confined Spaces
6 Dying
7 The Dead
8 Storms
9 Rodents
10 Insects
11 Snakes
12 Magic
13 God/Gods
14 Pain
15 Demons/Navirites
16 Horses
17 Underground
18 Birds
19 Being Lost
20 Flying
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Individuals and Groups
Table IG1
Roll 1d20 Individuals and Groups
1 Family
2 Mother
3 Father
4 Brother
5 Sister
6 Other Family
7 Childhood Friend
8 Family Friend / Acquaintance
9 Boss
10 Lord / Lady
11 King
12 Country
13 Church
14 Institution School
15 Institution Company
16 Institution Group
17 Rival Group
18 Guild
19 Enemy
20 Romantic Partner
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Loyalty
Table PL1
Roll 1d6 Group or Place
1-2 Community
3-4 Location
5-6 Individual. Proceed to Table IG1
Table PL2
Roll 1d6 Community
1 Neighborhood
2 City, Town, or Village
3 Church
4 Guild
5-6 Adventuring Group
Table PL3
Roll 1d6 Location
1 Neighborhood
2 City, Town, or Village
3 Church
4 Natural Area (Forest, Lake, Mountains, etc.)
5 Country / Kingdom
6 Home
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Random Encounter Tables
for a West Marches Game
In the August ‘24 issue, I discussed setting up the hex map. It
gives me the overall size, environmental regions, and monster
regions. Now, it is time to make my random tables to automate
exploration.
Feature Table
A simple table to give me some prompts for visual descriptions.
Natural Feature
1-2 Standard Terrain
3 Cliff
4 River
5 Chasm
6-7 Creek
8-9 Difficult Terrain
10-11 Path
12 Site
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Monster Encounters
The further away from the home base the more likely they are to
have an encounter. The first table tells me if there is an encounter
and what it is. It can be from the monster region they are currently
in or a lesser chance from an adjacent region. There is also a
chance of an epic encounter, which slowly increases in chance as
they move deeper into the wilds.
% Near Base
Encounter Chart
1-75 No Encounter
76-90 Regional Encounter
91-99 Adjoining Region
100 Uber Encounter
Goblin Region
1-10 Animal Chart
11-15 Easy Demon Chart
16-20 Easy Beast Chart
21-25 Other Peoples
26-35 Goblin Outcasts
36-65 Goblin Scout Party
66-95 Goblin Gatherers
96-99 Goblin Warband
100 Goblin Merchant
Animal Chart
1-10 Badger (1)
11-20 Bat Swarm (1)
21-30 Black Bear (1d2)
31-42 Boar (1d3)
43-54 Deer (2d4)
55-64 Coyote (2d4)
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Rattlesnake, Giant
65-69 (1d2)
70-89 Spider (1d8)
90-99 Wolf (1d4)
Dire animal (reroll for
100 type)
% Encounter Activity
1-7 Setting up camp
8-15 Surveying
16-23 Scouting
24-29 Eating
30-35 Fighting an enemy
36-40 Fighting an animal
41-45 Arguing
46-49 Playing a game
50-55 Trapped
56-65 Sleeping
66-70 Drinking
71-75 Smoking Varga Leaf
76-80 Harvesting Lumber
81-85 Digging a hole
Setting up a new
86-90 lair
91-95 Dressing a kill
96-98 Tending to wounds
99- 100 Bathroom
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The Swordspyne Mountains
The continent of Atheles is divided in half by the grandiose
Swordspyne Mountains. These towering, jagged peaks are the
tallest mountains in Atheles and are the source of many stories,
mysteries, and lore.
Of note to those who are unfamiliar: while we are all aware of our
place here on the continent of Atheles, this history includes use of
the elven term Uteria, which is in reference to the whole world, not
just the small corner of it we inhabit.
“The god wars had devastated the world and the living who still
called it home. The Vaahlari, the gods of order, had formed the
Union and formulated a plan that would save the world without
falling to more violence and death. This last resistance to the
onslaught of the Quhdaari, the gods of might, was desperate as
Uteria has begun to crumble under the onslaught of constant
war. They lured their enemies to believe that they had forged
a new destructive weapon, a world-ending power. As the
Quhdaari rushed to end this new threat, they were caught in the
weapon, a rift torn in space, which ended up trapping all the
gods in a limbo that has since been aptly named the Caerdiur, or
the Prison in eldar.
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This rift was so powerful, that when it closed, it ripped the
land in half, and the waters of the surrounding seas flowed into
the middle, creating the Ostiana Ocean. This caused massive
earthquakes throughout Uteria, the land rippling as if water.
The largest earthquake lifted the plains of the west, cracking
the crust of the world as the new continent shuttered under
the destruction. The plains pushed together, erupting, and the
molten earth created the jagged peaks of this mountain range. It
was to be first called the Spine of Atheles, the divide of the new
continent, but soon, as war broke out again, its jagged peaks,
looking like blades piercing the skies, were soon be called the
Miekaspyna Mountains, eldar for Sword Spine.”
“The time after the gods was tumultuous, the lands above
wracked by toxic storms and wild winds. The free elves
migrated west beyond the mountains, while the eldar settled into
the Starless Road, a magically excavated cavern system deep
below the surface. As the storms subsided in intensity, the eldar
reemerged to the lands above and found the mountains a safe
haven and buffer from the less frequent storms.
Long after this, the Valantians, teran people from a long island
archipelago in the Ostiana Ocean, landed on Atheles with
their massive black boats. They had encountered some eldar
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and elves on the sea and had issued forth with a mandate to
eliminate the threat to their kingdom. The Valantians took the
eastern lands of Atheles and pushed back any other intelligent
creatures with their aggressive and ingenious warcraft. The eldar
found themselves retreating back to their underground havens,
the Valantians settling as far inland as the Swordspynes. There
are many tales of what happened to the Valantians, the eldar
claiming they had a string of victories over them, while others
say a rare disease decimated their populace. They pulled back,
left the mainland, and returned back over the sea in their boats.
In later years, the elves and eldar who sailed the ocean never
found any evidence of their islands or their kingdom besides
small black stone ruins on various little islands.”
Today, you can still find many of the squat black stone ruins of
Valantian settlements, temples, and castles. In the Swordspynes,
it seems these ancient places have been better preserved. Finding
an old Valantian ruin in the mountains, you can still see their
ornate murals and decorative line work on the stone walls of
their buildings. A famous Valantian stronghold was named Castle
Atheles, built near an ancient Eldar portalstone. The castle sat atop
a flat-topped mountain, towering over a large valley. It served as
the largest Valantian stronghold on the continent until the fall of
their empire. The mountains in the area are still crisscrossed with
old Valantian roads, most heading towards the castle.
The Last Years of the Eldar
After the Valanatians disappeared, Uteria seemed to recover
from the last vestiges of the imprisonment of the gods. The
eldar emerged again from the Starless Roads and began to
build settlements and cities. They left the mountains, maybe the
remnants of the Valantians bringing harsh memories, or they just
rejoiced in the once again fertile world. The eldar empire grew
and became stronger. The mountains were left alone for unknown
centuries, growing wild and untamed.
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There are some old texts about a renegade eldar ruler, called the
Crimson King, who built a stronghold in the Swordspynes, but
little else is mentioned of him in elven histories.
The eldar empire expanded, and their empress sought control over
all of Uteria. They built this empire on the backs of their servants,
the elves. When Kaldrath and the elves rose up, the eldar cities
were leveled, and their people lost to this world. Some claim that
remnants of the civilization fled back to the Swordspynes, finding
refuge and freedom under the earth in the Starless Roads.
We have started to mine the precious ores from the old tunnels,
and the forges of Kowal blaze with fire as they smelt this precious
commodity. Ancient trees are brought down to make machines of
war for Uthgard. But we must wonder, what shall we disturb as we
ransack this old and storied region this time?
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